Alrighty, let's see if I can make this simple...

I very recently bought a new desktop computer, an HP Pavilion Elite with a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Quad Processor, 4 GB RAM, and a 256 MB NVidia GeForce 8500 GT. It runs on Windows Vista 64-bit Edition.

My old system (which was four years old) was a Gateway Pentium 4 3.2 GHz Processor with 2.25 GB RAM and Windows XP. Two years ago, I upgraded its Radeon x300 SE to a much more superior x800 XL (256 MB). The x800 held up very well and struck a good balance between quality and performance.

So after running a quick search on the GeForce 8500 and deciding that my old card was better, I took the computer to Best Buy to have the cards switched, but the tech guy there assured me that the newer card was better. ...So, changing my mind, I brought it back and tested the 8500 out a bit. The graphics were brighter and sharper than my old computer (due in part to the new monitor, I'm sure), but they also seemed a little jagged, even with the edge smoother on maximum. And when I tried out the 1440 x 900 (my monitor's natural resolution), the game was incredibly laggy. I couldn't have been playing for more than half-an-hour when I got the infamous NVidia blue screen crash. I downloaded new drivers, but I haven't tested it enough to know if that fixed it yet.

I'd like to install my old card, but I'm unsure of how it'll work with Vista, as I've heard it's more demanding of everything. Do you think the x800 would be an improvement, should I try to fix my problems with the 8500, or do I need to buy a new card altogether?

Thanks in advance.

well, if you allready have the x800 - sure, why not build it in and give it a try? if it´s a pci-e version of course and fits on your motherboard - i only had the agp-version of an ati x850xt, right now my girlfriend plays sims2 on it - on an amd 3200 in 1440x900 without any problems. so, if the card fits to your motherboard, deinstall the nvidia-drivers first, swich to standard-vga, change the cards and install the drivers. and yes, the x800 xl is in fact faster than the 8500gt - but it does not support directX 10 or shader 3.0.

The X800 should be faster, looking at some benchmarks, its twice as fast.

Just tell them to switch the cards no matter what they say. Ignore best buy XD

You will be 200% more happy with the X800 XL in your new PC.

Tim

x800 XL is a LOT faster card. I had that card.. interestingly enough my old computer was a p4 3ghz that originally came with an x300 and i upgraded it to that x800.. I had good luck with the card until I started adding a lot of cc and then i got some lagging on larger lots and HORRIBLE lag for the first few minutes of playing a uni or bv lot.. but then once everything loaded in things were better. Though that said the 8500GT SHOULD be more okay.. I mean people are reporting no lag on a 8400gs so not sure what’s going on. You may try reseating the card.. meaning taking it out, blowing some compressed air into the slot and putting it back in.. I would also actually fully uninstall the card, restart, and the reinstall with the newest drivers instead of just updating them.

Just fyi, Best Buy people are really clueless.. can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard them utter crap both to myself and others I know personally. So.. that would be another reason, imho, to switch the cards out yourself. It's really quite simple. I did eventually upgrade my x800 because the lag got to be too much for me.. but my advice is at least get something you have now working.. get a feel for if you're satisifed with the gameplay.. if not then think about an upgrade. 8600Gt would be GREAT for TS2: x800 XL is a LOT faster card. I had that card.. interestingly enough my old computer was a p4 3ghz that originally came with an x300 and i upgraded it to that x800.. I had good luck with the card until I started adding a lot of cc and then i got some lagging on larger lots and HORRIBLE lag for the first few minutes of playing a uni or bv lot.. but then once everything loaded in things were better. Though that said the 8500GT SHOULD be more than enough to be fine.. not sure what’s going on. You may try reseating the card.. meaning taking it out, blowing some compressed air into the slot and putting it back in.. also actually uninstall the card and the reinstall with the newest drivers instead of just updating them.

Just fyi, Best Buy people are really clueless.. can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard them utter crap both to myself and others I know personally.
This card is almost surely TS3 proof though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814130334 Also more futureproof, obviously.

Thanks for the info, everyone! You know, I think I may just forgo this whole mess with the 8500 and shop for a new card. And if I can't find something significantly better than my old x800, perhaps I'll stick with that. However, I'll still have to have a qualified technician install it, or I'll void the computer's warranty.

I'm wondering, though... Do you think the lag I was experiencing with the new card could possibly be a RAM issue? After system resources uses up what it needs, I have 2.41 left over, which is still more than I had with my old computer. However, I can't install any more since it's already at its full capacity. I just hope it was a good idea to buy this computer.

Meh if you have to have HP work on it you just take out the card you put in and put yours back in. They won't ever know.. pulled something similar with Dell.. but whatever you feel comfortable with. However I have to ask..are you SURE it voids the warranty to put a graphics card in it? Because that's not normal.. like cpu/psu stuff yes but most companies consider the graphics card to be a user upgradable item.

You have 4gb of ram of a 64 bit operating system..def not caused my lack of ram. Could be bad ram.. You could use memtest to check it. Make sure to allow at least one full pass. I usually leave it overnight.. but make sure you watch it carefully the first few minutes because if it is bad ram and it starts throwing errors all over kill it quick. BSOD are often caused by either bad ram.. or a driver issue. I think your problem is due to a bad graphics driver, in which case uninstalling and reinstalling with the newest (get off nvidia.com not hp.com) after a restart should fix it, or maybe the memtest will pick something else.

As to whether you should have bought the computer.. my personal opinion is I don't think much of HP as a company or the products they produce.. As for the actual specs.. your old computer is better equipted to handle Ts2. Since Ts2 can't make use of multi core tech the pentium in your old computer is far superior.. XP and 2gb is faster than Vista 64 and 4gb (only benefit to Vista are some minor rendering things in directx10 compatible games.. which Ts2 isn't), and the graphics card it came with is inferior to what you had as well. Can I ask how much it cost?

Ah nuts... I just got through reading an article on RAM and Vista and was convinced that my computer was more than adequate to run TS2. Then I come here and see that my old system was better.

As for HP, it's actually my family's computer, and my mom was stuck on getting an HP. I wanted another Gateway, but I have to admit the HP's have a better appearance (which, let's face it, does figure into the equation).

If I remember, it cost a little over a thousand, without the monitor.

*Edit* I happened upon this article at the Wiki, and I really think that's my problem, as the graphics speed does seem to fluctuate. So now that we've established that I have enough RAM, I think I just may try out my old card (the x800) with the suggestions from that article and see how that runs. I really hope this works...

Woah, in that case HP rules a possible Gateway anyway! There are worse companies (like Gateway :$).. there are just better *shrugs*

For that you could get a REALLY amazing pc if your folks weren't attached to HP.. but ah well. Someday eh? I was attached to HP (Compaq) until I turned 18 and broke off what my parents wanted too.

You'd be the first person I've ever seen to have a quad with that issue and have the fix in the article help.. You can always try the fix they suggest but in most cases it seems to make things worse. I would reccomend installing the x800 card first and seeing if that changes anything before messing with that. Graphics speed will vary depending on the lot you are on and even on how much is going on.

Good luck to you!

You're right, it did make it worse. I tried it out with my current graphics card and it was much choppier than before. (Oh, and by the way, the fluctuating speeds I was talking about were all on the same lot with not very much sim activity.)

After thinking it over, I decided to keep the old Gateway for another year and use it solely as a gaming computer. I always wanted a desktop in my bedroom anyway. And by the time it starts to really feel the weight of all the custom content I've bogged it down with, TS3 will be out, and hopefully it will be able to take advantage of the new comp's processor.

Just curious here for future reference... What computer manufacturers do you consider "better?" Dell?

At least you’ve ruled that much out, and you still have the old working computer.

I wouldn't go with any manufacturer like that. I would recommend building yourself or using another company to built for you using the same top quality retail parts. This is a great company for pcs: http://www.avadirect.com This for laptops: http://www.xoticpc.com. You can build a really strong gaming computer for less than $600, or have someone build it for you for around $1000.

Okay, just had another brainstorm... Rather than have a clunky, out-of-date computer sitting on my desk competing for space with my fish tank, I think I'm going to put some of my savings towards a new gaming laptop. I needed a new laptop anyway, so it would really be killing two birds with one stone.

If I had someone build it for me within a thousand-dollar budget, what components would you recommend? (I'd prefer to stick with ATI.)

Laptops are really not for gaming.....

You've never heard of a gaming laptop?

*Edit* Alright, I've been taking a look at laptops online, but everything seems to have a dual-core. Wouldn't I run into the same processor problems, or was that solely because of the quad?

*Edit Again* Okay... Forget my last couple of posts. I'm back to my original thought, which is get it to work with the new desktop if possible. (I apologize for changing my mind so often, I'm just a little overwhelmed with this situation and just want it settled.) So I'll ask a simple question. Regardless of the graphics card, is is possible to run TS2 smoothly on a Core 2 Quad Processor?

*Edit 3.0* Nevermind, it doesn't really matter. I've been testing out the game some more on a lower resolution and it's picked up a small increase in speed and framerate. I think the extra lag is caused by that damn Geforce 8500, which is what I thought in the first place. (And by the way, I did do a complete uninstall of the driver and installed the newest one.) I think what it amounts to is I need to go back to the Radeon x800.

...Amazing. All this trouble most likely could have been avoided if Best Buy had just listened to me in the first place. :doh

$1000 isn't enough for a good gaming laptop. I mean you can get something that will play TS2 ok.. but not overall great machine. You won't get anything ANYWHERE near what you could on a desktop.

I think going back to your original thought is a good one. Yes, I know many people who play on that quad core no problems.

Hopefully your x800 card will solve your issues

I really think it will. Changing the resolution made a lot of difference, and I think the rest can be made up with my good ol' x800. It's odd though, originally with the 8500, I had an option for 1280 x 800 which perfectly preserved the aspect ratio of a 1440 x 900-capable monitor. When it crashed, the option was removed so I had to chose the next closest thing, which was 1280 x 768. It's not bad, but the control panel was clearer on the 800 setting. Will installing my old card reset the screen resolution options?

Your graphics card should only be displaying the options that your monitor will support.. There is some kind of miscommunication between your monitor and the graphics card if that is going on. Interested to see what options you have with the X800 card. Is this the same monitor that you used on your old computer?

Nope, it's brand new. The old one only supported 1024 x 768.

Maybe your 8500 is just plain bad :\ From the crashing to the not being able to properly tell what kind of resolution your monitor supports.. It's quite possible.

Alright, I've tested it with the x800. MUCH better. The speed is comparable to my old computer, and the 1280 x 800 screen resolution option has popped up again. However... there is still a little bit of lag, and the fan noise is incredibly annoying. So I'm just going to go with my initial impression and get a new card. I've ordered a newer, quieter, more powerful, Radeon HD 3870 that should fit my current and future needs.

Yes I also upgraded my x800 after getting tired of the lag

However.. feel that the radeon is not a good choice of card for playing Ts2. Firstly it is unsupported and have personally not known anyone to use it so it may or may not work.. secondly WAAAAY more than you need (even more than needed for Crysis!), while at the same time, third is not the best cost/performance ratio.

I would opt for the $150 9600gt which runs just under the 8800gt: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814130334

Will scream and shout all the way through TS2 and TS3 too since.. no way EA is coming out with a game more gpu hungry than Crysis LOL Crysis can be played zero lag on a 8800gt, which is just a liiiitle bit better than the 9600gt

Well, with such a high demand I place on the game, I don't know if it is overkill. But even considering that possibility, I don't care, since I got a good deal on it, and I'm tired of having to upgrade all the time. Besides, you never know what game I may pick up a couple years down the line.

(And I don't want to go NVidia again since so many people seem to have the blue screen issues.)

*Edit* Hmm, but that fact that it isn't supported... I didn't even think about that. I'll cancel the order until I can make up my mind. I'll consider the card you suggested.

It is overkill trust me.. you won't get any increase in performance past a certain point because.. it will just be way more than it needs. Even the 8600GT will perform it flawlessly with no lag. You know what I mean? Past a certain point.. you're not going to get better performance because it will already be lag free..

Meh I have a nvidia card.. I know tons of people who use nvidia cards too and not a one who has unexplainable nvidia bsod..one of those things that perhaps came about due to someone knowing not enough and a little too much to diagnose it mysterious unexplainable nvidia incompatibility.. Now I know some of the older nvidia drivers DID have issues with some games but those have been fixed.. not really sure what else to make of all of it. There's NO reason why some people would have fine game play on a card and others not on the SAME card unless there's something else going on.. like bad drivers, bad card, etc. I mean there's just more science behind it than that LOL I admit at one point in time I was concerned with all the people saying nvidia cards were incompatible too.. but after researching and seeing some people (most) played the same cards fine.. there has to be more to it.

I just want to clarify that just because a card isn't supported doesn't mean it won't work.. The 8600gt and 9600gt aren't supported either but we know they work because there are many people who use them (on this forum even). I just don't know anyone with that ATI card..

...Unless you have an obscene amount of downloads and play huge and highly-detailed lots. Were you taking that into consideration? I'd just like a little insurance.

Anyway, after a lot of thought and researching, I still think I'll stick to the 3870 for reasons I've already stated.

Actually it won't. I have a 8600GT 512mb card with a 2.6ghz dual core and 2GB of memory aswell as a sata 500GB hard drive....this runs Call of duty 4 and medal of honor airbourne great but sims?? No way! It still lags on large lots and this is with settings on medium...

I only have 990mb of downloads and iv'e defragged my hard drive regulary....i agree with purplepaws choice...ATI have less BSOD's and its good to have a card like that as she said..

"you dont know what game i might pick up in the future"

Reccomend you uninstall and reinstall your drivers then because I've played on that card, all expansions and max settings no lag. That card plays Crysis max settings without all that much lag so there is no reason it shouldn't handle Ts2. You may also have some cc which is causing issues.

Actually personal experience with working on computers, visiting related forums, and reading reviews seems that ATI I've seen a much higher failure rate You can agree but you'd be wrong..

Yes and being that 9600GT should be okay with Crysis can't imagine her picking up something it couldn't handle :p