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*shrugs*
retired moderator
Original Poster
#1 Old 8th Apr 2006 at 1:54 AM Last edited by maybesomethingdunno : 8th Apr 2006 at 2:10 AM.
Just how does the Wants/Fears system exactly work?
I'm guessing this is the right place to post this since "Want to talk about modding the game or got a question about it? Post here" was at the top of the page. I'm sorry if this is not the right place. Before anyone says anything, this is not a request for a global mod. I'm just asking how the game works and about the possibility of something like this so that I would know that I wouldn't be asking for the impossible (I'm not at a point in my modding skills to be able to do something like this). Anyway, I had an idea for a significant addition to the game that would make it somewhat more realistic, but I don't know if it would be possible because I don't know how the wants/fears system really works.

You see, my idea is for "obsession", which I define within the context of the game as the increased and/or constant appearance of certain Wants/Fears over other Wants/Fears. The Grilled Cheese Aspiration was the inspiration for this as it seemed grilled cheese-related wants & fears dominated over all the other wants and fears.

Examples of possible Obsessions would be:
  • Exercise & swimming for very Active Sims
    >May also have the want to eat a salad.
  • A specific Sim or more than one Sim:
    [1]Romantic relationship-related (example: all Sim A ever seems to want to do is to kiss/be kissed by Sim B)
    [2]Non-romantic relationship-related (examples: all Sim A wants is to take care of much younger Sim B, spend time with Sim C, or make Sim D's life miserable)
  • Making things; doing creative things such as painting
  • Money-/Work-related
    >Ways of interpretation or examples of this one would be a Sim who is obsessed with making money or a Sim who likes to go to community lots to buy new clothes a lot.
  • fear of Disease and pests (like germophobia)
I have several more examples in a text file because I'm somewhat weird and decided to try to make a list of things for Sims to obsess about based on some of the wants and fears I've seen in the game while I was exploring this idea in my head.

I know that this would certainly highlight certain aspiration-related wants and fears and minimize some of the seemingly random wants and fears that may seem out of character for a particular Sim. I don't know how the obsessions would be customizable; the most realistic means (I think) would be via an object rather than the addition of a full player-made, in-game setting modeled after the Turns-on and Turn-offs from Nightlife. Multiple obsessions at once may be possible & would be somewhat more realistic but may cause conflict(s) depending upon how something like this would be coded.

I tend to believe that something like this would be possible, based upon a simple annoyance that some people have expressed. The annoyance that I'm referring to is how with every expansion pack, the Sims become obsessed with the new features. After University was first installed, just about all of the teen Sims' Wants panel became filled with nothing but the "want to go to college", "buy a cell phone", "buy an mp3 player", and "buy a portable gaming device" wants. Then with Nightlife, it was going downtown, going somewhere to go eat, and going on dates. I understand that this is a means to guide the player to the new features and show the new features off; I am just using it as an example.

But, none of this may be possible! Like I said before, I don't know much about how the wants and fears system actually works and would like for someone to explain to me how it works behind the scenes. I know that this sort of addition would probably be a massive undertaking and probably to the point in which it would either be impossible without major, EP-like changes to the game or it would not be worth the trouble if proved to be too buggy and/or not practical for gameplay. So, the point of this very long thread, if it has been lost, is "how does the wants and fears system actually work and would something like this be possible even if someone had the time to make such an addition?"

Added: I know that you can change the wants/fears by means such as SimPE. A mod or an addition such as this would be intened to be a part of the gameplay and would be active as the game is being played. A Sim who would be "set" to be really interested in exercise or swimming would have the want to go swimming or exercise more often as a part of the gameplay; the player would not need to constantly leave the game or make the Wants/Fears panel refresh to change the wants/fears.

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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#2 Old 9th Apr 2006 at 11:34 AM
I'm not a modder and would not know how the fears and wants exactly work, but most of the time - according to me - it is at random. However, there is also some build in control system, for example: family oriented Sims get more often the wish to have a child and knowladge oriented Sims get the wish to see the ghost. I could imagine that somewhere in the whole wants/fears system there are some constants and flags which are used to decide which wants by which Sims should appear more often and others not at all or at random. In fact I have exactly the same idea as yours, moreover, I would like that the Sims act - in some way - autonomous to achive their specific wants. I think that some very good modders could make this kind of changes, but indeed it would take a lot of time and effort. However it would be marvellous mod.
*shrugs*
retired moderator
Original Poster
#3 Old 9th Apr 2006 at 7:21 PM Last edited by maybesomethingdunno : 9th Apr 2006 at 7:35 PM.
First of all, thank you for your response. I was afraid that this would get pushed back and no one would see it. I see your point about the system of the constants and flags. It would be weird for a Romance Sim to lack the want to flirt as a "natural" want and for a Family Sim to have the want to see aliens more often than a Knowledge Sim. However, I've noticed that some wants and fears come up as a result of certain actions and events, not just by aspiration. In other words, a special event or a special series of events trigger certain wants and fears. I've noticed that, even though Sim A is not a Romance Sim, she will want to kiss Sim B having just flirted with him. She will then have the want to "make out" with him and then the want to WooHoo. Another example I've seen would be that Sim C has just been in an elevator in Open For Business for the first time and now has the fear of it breaking. So, I'd say that the wants and fears are certainly somewhat tied to the Sim's aspiration but also to the events around them and what a Sim has done.

Like I said before, I don't know how the game works and I don't know how a mod like this, if possible, would work. A mod such as this could possibly disrupt the way the game is designed to function. An example would be if certain events were or were not triggered when they should have been; in which case, only God knows what could happen. I'm not saying that Brandi Broke's increased want to buy new clothes or her constant fear of being rejected would suddenly cause her to randomly transform into Bella Goth who is carrying alien triplets named Goopy or anything absurd like that; however, if something happens or fails to happen and the game doesn't know how to handle the situation, it might do something unexpected and perhaps undesirable.

If anyone else has comments, ideas, or knowledge, please share. I'd appreciate it. I don't intend to be the one that makes a mod like this (I wouldn't know where to begin); however, I would like to know more about how the game works.

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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Field Researcher
#4 Old 9th Apr 2006 at 10:42 PM
I'll be watching this thread too, because I'm interested in writing some mods to rid a few wants that I find annoying. (I'm tired of my romance sim spending all their working hours wanting to hire workers they already have employed at other shops!) I haven't gotten around to it yet, but what I planned to do is search to find some existing global hacks that did similar things but on different wants and then try to do something similar for the ones I want to target. I'm not sure, but I think twojeffs has made some at MATY.
*shrugs*
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Original Poster
#5 Old 10th Apr 2006 at 2:42 AM
dolphin26, thanks for your input. If you are able to write mods, you are more advanced in all of this than I am (I have trouble just getting my recolors of clothing to look right sometimes :P). If you gain any insight that you think might be helpful, please feel free to share the information even though I couldn't do much in terms of making a mod such as this. You may find out something that would be useful with this subject. If I have ever seen a mod that changed wants and fears, I don't remember seeing it; a want/fear-altering mod would be good to look at though.

recalibrator, if you're still visiting this thread, I forgot to mention that I'm not so sure about extending the autonomy of want fulfillment. Some wants and fears can be fulfilled or realized autonomously while others can't. A Sim will tell a joke to someone on their own and can be rejected on their own. Unless I'm mistaken, Sims will not starting performing romantic interactions such as flirting until either that Sim flirts or (I think) has accepted a flirt from another Sim. So, Sims will not fall in love on their own if they have not been given a gender preference. Also, Sims generally will not spend money on their own. They will not pay the bills, restock the food supply, order food, or buy things from the buy mode (OFB being a slight exception). I bring this up because some Sims want to buy things and you, the player, must buy for them. It might be somewhat scary if Sims could go into Buy Mode on their own and just start buying things; some of my Sims would buy more garden gnomes than any person (simulated or not) would ever need.

I don't even know how many wants and fears there are in the game. I'm sure that shows the extent of how unprepared I would be to make such a mod as this if I knew how. There are some really smart people here and I'm glad that at least they can figure out what's going on behind the scenes of this game.

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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Field Researcher
#6 Old 10th Apr 2006 at 6:28 PM
Well, I did what I wanted without really having to understand the system. But you may want to look at group 0x7F739728 -- that's the group that seems to be associated with wants.
*shrugs*
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Original Poster
#7 Old 10th Apr 2006 at 6:59 PM
Oh, okay then. I'm happy for you. I don't know how and where to look for a "group 0x7F739728". I'm sure if I found it, I wouldn't know what exactly I'd be looking at anyway. I guess I'm the type of person that likes a technical explaination even if I don't understand 100% of it. So, even if I don't understand all of the inner-working of the game or whatever part is explained to me, I'm still curious...if that makes sense. Thanks for your response.

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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Field Researcher
#8 Old 10th Apr 2006 at 7:10 PM
Ah, well, sorry, then! A group is a grouping of items that can be stored in package files. BHAVs are one kind of such item, which is where the "code" for the sims is stored. Usually, downloaded .package files only has their stuff in group 0xFFFFFFFF, which tells the game that that stuff is a stand alone object, and doesn't override anything in the game. Global hacks, however, use other group numbers, and their presence overrides behavior that comes with the game. When I said look at that particular group, what I meant is to use SimPE with a filter on that group so that you would see the BHAVs (the programs) that dealt with wants.
*shrugs*
retired moderator
Original Poster
#9 Old 11th Apr 2006 at 8:26 PM
Ah, thank you. If I can get my computer to work with me and not against me, I'll open up SimPE and see what sort of options are there in the program.

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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*shrugs*
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Original Poster
#10 Old 22nd Apr 2006 at 10:16 PM Last edited by maybesomethingdunno : 22nd Apr 2006 at 10:24 PM.
Please, forgive the double post. I don't mean to add to this thread to bump it; I do have an addition to this thread that I deem as related and not really worthy of a new thread.
In response to dolphin26, I'm starting to think that SimPE and I should only work together to adjust the skills and relationships of Sims and not much more.

My question and reason for posting is this:
Would it be possible to define a group of wants/fears and then add one or more attributes to a particular Sim that defines the Sim as having that group of wants/fears?

For example, let's say a person defines a group of wants and gives it the nickname of "The Shop to You Drop Sim"; this group could contain such wants as "buy new clothes", "buy [specific object]", "go downtown", etc. This person also defines a group of fears and gives it the nickname "Am I Socially Acceptable?"; this group could contain such fears as "getting fat", "being booed at", "being rejected", etc.

Of course, some wants/fears would overlap into different groups of wants/fears. A group of fears (perhaps such as the "Am I Socially Acceptable?" group) that has the fear of "getting fat" would share the "getting fat" fear with a group of fears nicknamed "I want to be healthy". Side note: A group nicknamed "I want to be healthy" is probably a bad example of a nickname, since it could be a group of fears (such as "fear of getting fat", "fear of illness", and "fear of vomiting") or a group of wants (such as "want to be fit", "want to exercise", "gain a body skill point", "eat a chef salad", or "want to go swimming").

A sim defined as "The Shop to You Drop Sim" will have the increased and/or constant appearance of "The Shop to You Drop Sim" wants. Likewise, if the sim is defined as an "Am I Socially Acceptable?" sim, that sim will have the fears associated with that group. If a Sim only has the attribute for a particular group of wants, then their fears will be generated as normal and vice versa for if the sim only has the attribute for a particular group of fears.

I don't know how such attributes would be assigned in-game or if it would even be possible to assign them in-game. I'm sure adding an attribute to a Sim would be potentially risky as it is anyone's guess what MAXIS will do in future expansion packs and what changes will be made. Also, a sim having multiple attributes (i.e. assigning a sim to multiple groups of wants and/or fears) could also be potentially risky. Sadly, I know just enough to know that I don't know enough to know how do a lot of things like this. (I think I might have confused myself re-reading that last sentence to make sure it made sense. ) However, I have faith in the amazing people here to blow me out of the water with their knowledge and talent and I'm sure a mod such as this would technically be possible, especially after seeing what Squinge has done (that boy can mod! :insane: ).

Thoughts? Comments?
(Please note: I mean no offense to "fat" people in this thread; I've got extra size where I shouldn't and I'm both socially acceptable and healthy. I'm just bad at making good examples. :nod: )

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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