I have been playing with wants-based for a while now, and I love it.

It definitely creates more variety in my game, forces me to acknowledge the very different personalities of my sons, and prevents me from having a ton of super successful identical families.

However, I suffer when it comes to Charisma skill points. It is rare for Sims other than knowledge or fortune Sims to roll the want for Charisma. And unless everyone gets a bird, there's nothing else to encourage Sims in this one skill.

How do you deal with this imbalance in your game?
Suggestions for mine please!

For me, I play a wants-based game combined with lots of free-willing and tweaking the game to allow Sims to do many more things autonomously than they can, unmodded. That way, they can choose to skill or not for themselves, unless they actively roll a want for it, in which case I will prompt them to do so.

Charisma's hard, though, as there are few things they can do to gain that skill in the first place. (I wish is was more like TS3, where Sims interacting with other Sims slowly builds Charisma over time.) But two things off the top of my head:

I use a a mod that makes the karaoke machine build Charisma instead of Creativity, since there are a billion other things that Sims can do to increase Creativity and precious few they can do to build Charisma. This helps me because I often send Sims to community lots that have karaoke machines (because watching/listening to them do it amuses me) and, often, when they are on a lot that has a machine they will roll wants to use it.

I also use an invisible medicine cabinet with mirrors that do not have the medicine cabinet functions. That cabinet includes the Practice Speech function, which I made autonomous, so that Sims can choose to do that themselves. It's here. Note that for my own game I bumped the advertising up farther than it's set in the uploaded version because I found that it wasn't strong enough for what I wanted. If you decide to use that and feel then same, then bumping the advertising is easy to do if you can run SimPE.

I like the idea of the karaoke machine increasing charisma. it makes more sense than creativity.

One option for might be to have your sims run up the charisma score as toddlers, with the decapitated bunny. I dont know if they roll wants to play with that thing, but the little runts have rare little else to do and that's one of the few charisma items available. Run up the score when they're young, and take it from there.


-gE
>=)

Toddlers can even WANT to gain charisma points from that thing! Good idea.

The bunny for toddlers is a good tool...unless, like me, you skill-limit toddlers. I don't want super-skilled toddlers and children, especially because I play with greatly-lengthened lifespans. But that's just a "me thing." That said, outgoing toddlers are especially drawn to that bunny like moths to flame, so even if they don't roll wants, if you let them free-will and don't skill-limit them, they'll rack up points on it for later in life.

Of course, that doesn't help non-born-in-game Sims.

There are career rewards that builds charisma, though - the golf thing (business career), the politics career's podium, I think the Law reward (which pays per hour as well ) too. I don't think kids can use all of them or that they gain points (they do have a lot of fun using the political career one) - but all other sims can gain points by using these.

The mod iCad links to above - there are also one (same post) that makes the performance mic gives charisma points instead of creativity points. It can be used by children too.

Children can use the teleprompter autonomously, I even have a mod that stops them from doing it, but are they using the function of gaining charisma or are they just goofing off? I don't recall just now.

One of the things I do prefer in TS2 is skilling in toddlers and children but it's usually easy to get them over-skilled, especially with smart milk which I've been mostly avoiding since playing again.

Sims quite often have the want to earn an unspecified skill point, so unless they really need something else I generally use this want to get them in front of the mirror. I find Romance, Pleasure and Family Sims will often whinge and sigh about being asked to practice a speech, but are generally okay with being asked to practice romance.

The Business career reward object (Execuputter) is supposed to build charisma and have a high fun aspect; Sims never seem to use that autonomously either, but if they're screaming at you to let them have some fun, you could let them do something mindless to get their fun off rock bottom, then send them to use the reward object (they won't use it when they're in actual desperation, because it builds a skill). Since they've demanded a fun activity, I personally consider it within the bounds of 'wants'; it just depends how strict your rules are. The Politics and Law career rewards also build charisma and fun, and children, at least, will use them autonomously; I don't use them often enough to remember whether teens and adults do.

ETA: Ninja'd by Misty! I think children do gain charisma even though they're goofing off, though I couldn't swear to it, and they certainly gain charisma when an exasperated parent gives them a lesson to put an end to all the belching!

I am definitely going to try the autonomous mirror. That may give me what I need.

I found that my born in game Sims got way too skilled as children, so I almost never buy the toys that would allow points. Maybe I will reconsider my rules about this - unless you really want to build charisma as an adult, it isn't going to happen, but kids sometimes pick these things up. Something else to consider...

Any other notions?

My romance sims always want to "Practice Romance", so they get charisma. I've seen popularity sims want to "Practice Speech" as well, I think it's triggered by bad conversations or jokes or something.

I think iCad modded some of those business rewards to allow autonomy, check her tumblr.

Oh yeah, the Execuputter. Unmodded, it's non-autonomous. I made that (and some of the other career rewards as well as crafting stations) autonomous here: https://dramallamadingdang.tumblr.c...de-these-before

@Coriel_Munoz
If you still want toddlers/kids to be able to play with toys and do skilling stuff without becoming over-skilled, you might try skill-limiting them: http://www.simbology.com/smf/index.php?topic=8055.0 Some people might see no point to it. As in, what's the point of them doing something if they don't gain in skill? But I personally like seeing, for instance, kids practicing piano, but I don't necessarily want all of them to become little Van Cliburns by the time they're 10. Which they will do in my game because of greatly-lengthened life spans where childhood alone is 32 days. You also (or instead) might try harder skills mods, but of course those will affect all Sims not just toddlers and/or children.

I use a 'jigsaw puzzle' for toddlers -personally, I hate the sound of that bunny. I think it's by bienchen ‎69.
I have the golf putter at my playable schools and at a few other lots for anyone aged child+ and it is auto use thanks to iCad. ^ :D
A few sims have birds, not many. That can be an annoying way to gain charisma.
I also use a mod that makes the microphone rather than Karaoke machine skill charisma
I use an auto mirror mod so teen+ will go and practice at a mirror of their own accord-I really like that one.

As to skill levels I calculate each sims motivation level and set how many skills they can learn on each age group on the simblender. I wish this could be tweaked as how it's done is extremely tedious. Find Skills>find name>set skill (one skill at a time) This is in addition to want based play because some sims may want but still not have the ability.

If you have the batbox there is an option on there to make a sim be stupid instead of smart which takes away their effect from using smart milk

Who is that directed to?

My smart sims are set to smart on the batbox, normal and low motivated sims are not set, they are 'stupid' automatically. I don't use smart milk though because either the sim is smart or they are not. I calculate that as soon as they become toddlers and if they are smart they get it set on the batbox. I check everytime I load a house too because being smart comes off very easily.

None of my Sims are stupid. All of them just don't have the same talents

I'm going to ask a question about the premise of yours.

If you're playing to wants (and I do too), does it really matter that your sims don't roll wants specifically for Charisma? I guess I'm asking because to me, that isn't an imbalance. If they don't roll Charisma wants, then they don't get Charisma skill. Or, as Blue Alien said, you can use their nonspecific wants for skill points.

It would be a mindset change, but there it is as an alternative to doing more autonomous items---because you said that you were liking not having super-skilled families! What if Charisma is a rare thing in sim society, for example?

That said, I also use the karaoke machine mod that iCad mentioned; karaoke is mainly on my uni campus, so that if they do roll wants for skilling while there and it's needed for their major, they have a way to get Charisma. (well, with a lot of coffee---I also have an old slower skilling mod that makes the going sloooww!). Whether a toddler gets the Charisma bunny, though, depends on what interests their parents have---parents who don't value socializing or need Charisma in their LTW often won't buy the bunny for their toddlers.

This isn't to say I'm trying to torture or deprive my sims. I'm just saying that to me, wants-based play offers the potential of seeing what's important to them. So if they find lots of things more important than Charisma points, my thought is, why not play them that way?

I play wants-based too (mostly) and do as a lot of other simmers suggested. I wanted to chime in and say that wants for an unspecified skill point is a great time to have a sim build charisma or any other skill my sims need but will rarely roll a want for. That's how my sims get by in university--they may not roll a want for a specific skill, but if they roll a generic 'earn a skill point' want, I use that to direct them to earn charisma or any other skill they may not autonomously get but need to advance in their major.

I also use a mod similar to iCad's, but it's by AncientHighway: http://www.simbology.com/smf/index....59838#msg159838. Autonomous Mirror allows sims to autonomously use the mirror to gain charisma, depending on their outgoing points. It's for teens and up, works on all mirrors, and sims can also practice romance if they're more inclined. Now when my sims loiter in the bathroom, they might decide to do something useful and work on their charisma instead of just checking themselves out in the mirror.

When I was researching autonomous skill building items to use in simlogical schools, charisma was definitely one of the trickiest skills to find items for, and so many of the suggestions above (autonomous career rewards, karaoke builds charisma) are great options. I'll also add that you can use the vocational training controller (simwardrobe) or Sophie-David's controllers to teach charisma, as well as create custom TV channels (like this one: http://www.modthesims.info/d/252487...sic-videos.html, have sims study on Monique's computer, or impart knowledge to teach charisma, too. You can also change the skill that an item builds, like Neder did with the karaoke machine, if you're not squeamish about editing things in simPE. Someone made a mod to make blogging build creativity and I've been messing around with it to make it build charisma instead. Haven't properly tested it yet, but mentioning it cuz it's an idea of what you can do.

As for when to direct sims to skill, I think it might also help to broaden our interpretation of wants. Maybe a want to "Make a Friend" (or a best friend/BFF) isn't just a want to make a friend, but also a want to build charisma so that they can make friends easier. Same with influence wants. Stands to reason that influencing someone takes a bit of charisma, right? So maybe that want to influence a sim can only be fulfilled/attempted after a sim has a certain level of charisma. Maybe that want to buy a love potion is a sign a sim needs to work on their talking skills, too. Ditto for the "Get Caught Cheating Fear", since you could say they might have a fear of not just getting caught but also a fear of not being able to convince another sim of their honesty, which takes charisma. Or maybe in order to have a great party, a sim needs some charisma. Etc. You can also take inspiration from TS3 and set up mini challenges in lieu of a mod. So like, if your sim has at least 20 daily relationship points with 20 or more sims, that means they get one charisma point. Or they get a point for every five best friends made. Or they've used influence 30 times and so they earn a point. Etc, Etc. As long as you make the rules consistent, it could be a great way to get deeper into reading sims' want panels.

To answer natboopsie, Phantomknight, and add a bit more context:

I will definitely allow other wants and fears to affect skilling. For instance, at uni, if a Sim has no skill point wants, but wants to get on Dean's list, then I interpret that as them wanting to build the necessary skills. If they fear failing, then they can earn a skill point to ensure that they have the room to pass.

I also have skill limits. 7 is the typical maximum for teens, with one 8 based on aspiration. Negative childhood events, like earning a D, can lower the ceiling, while going to uni or maxing a hobby can increase.

So there's variety in terms of potential, and because of want-based play there is variety in terms of filling that potential.. Except that no one ever wants Charisma.

I will think about the toddler toys and potentially reincorporating them... gotta think about that

I guess my question would still be...why do you need them to want it? It sounds like that's more to do with your idea about what the right way to play (or the "best" outcome for your sims) might be.

That said, I do agree with Phantomknight that sometimes skill wants are "hidden," like in the want to make friends or have a good reputation and so on. And I handle some of the uni wants/fears (Dean's List and fear of academic probation) just the way you do.

In my hoods, though, I try really hard to make decisions for them based on how the individual sim might choose for themselves---so for example, even if they have 0 Charisma points and even if they will need Charisma for their major in the future, unless I see the sim as a highly motivated sort of character (specific calculations go into that), those generic skillpoint wants will go into skilling related to their hobby. Or once their hobby skill gets maxed, into whatever skill their strongest Interests (interests panel) relate to. Thus, only my really motivated sims skill in advance for anything, because I think the ability to look ahead like that is something that not everyone has.

So no one wanting Charisma doesn't necessarily have to be a problem that needs solving. But again, if you just enjoy having them have more Charisma points, then that's OK too!

Probably to make play harder and so you get a range of sims. It's way too easy in this game to end up with all sims with tons of skills, A+ in school, 4PGPA in UNI. For me playing an integrated hood, I needed sims to do the professional jobs like the doctor but I also need sims who garden, spray bugs or stock shelves. I base mine around motivation levels as well as wants. For me wants don't matter for highly motivated sims but are the major way I play average sims, with low motivated sims being left to only skill autonomously. I might, if they keep rolling a want let them gain 1 skill, but I wouldn't lock it.

Charisma skills have certain "advantages" - so I don't feel that a sim needs to roll a want for one if the sim needs one.

A sim may need one simply in order to get promoted - and if the LTW is career-based, he is certainly going to need it as well to reach that LTW. Fortune sims who need a charisma skill for a promotion will definitely roll the want.

A sim who wants to perform free lance will also make more money with more charisma points.

Sims seem to roll the want for a charisma skill if they want to get romantically involved (at least, I think they do, based on what I see in my game).

However, sims often roll a want to earn a skill point, unidentified - that may be as good a reason to have them earn a charisma skill point than anything else.

I don't play with aging mods, so I don't find that my sims gain too many skilling points at all - that is a factor, I guess, one has to take into account. Toddlers seldom gain more than 2 of a specific skill, or more than 6 in total. Some of them don't earn that many - there are, after all, butterflies to chase, snow to play in, family members to play peek-a-boo with and quite often a twin to huggle

My gardening sims are not stupid. They are on their way to become highly creative landscaping professionals

Among my TT pixels-if I see that they don't have a want expressed to get a skill point that is necessary, I'll nudge them to do it, but usually they'll roll a 'get promoted' want right after, as if to say, "Thanks, I needed the encouragement!"

Sometimes they don't know what they're supposed to do, and we're required to ever so gently remind them of it.

As for skill limits, I've put most of them on a level 5 if they're really slow in getting skills. Once they hit that, whether or not they'll exceed it is up to them. Some pixels do have the motivation, but others just give up and let things slide.

Before I started these limits some toddlers (highly motivated) were gaining up to 4 skills over all areas or even up to 7-8 in one area. Then I decided no more than 1-2-3 skills in any area for toddlers. That was 8 days with toddler beds and constant play skilling.

My toddlers used to have the charisma bunny you as their main toy in every household. They might have 8 points before becoming children as it was their one way to have fun.

I used to be very focused on skilling and promotions. All my Sims approached school, jobs and work the same way - for success. I love that that doesn't happen anymore and I find the balance excellent - except when it comes to Charisma.

My Sims will get a job if they have a want for it - LTW are not exactly ignored, but if they need a job and want to work as a teacher, they'll so it even if their LTW is science. Maybe if they get fired they will look at science again, but like most people, you don't always follow your dream career.

Fortune and Knowledge Sims will eventually roll wants in Charisma, but others don't seem to and are so busy doing other things that a "any skill" want is also rare in my game.

Charisma is key for so many things - all my Sims tell bad jokes and will get bad joke fears filled even when telling a BFF their jokes. Sims who pick a career requiring one Charisma point may never earn a promotion, while those in any other skill area will eventually get one or two - still not that successful.

I like the autonomous mirrors and rewards objects - I am going to give them a try and see if it helps.

No one else has found this kind of imbalance in their game?

As I read through here again I think the reason I don't play more than I do is that I get stuck in the whole make-them-the-best-they-can-be mode and it gets dull. One question I have is what do you all do with the Family Sims who constantly want their kids to be over-achievers? I never let teens get after-school jobs (too many other interesting things for them to do) and I hate that want so I always ignore it.