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Old 7th Jan 2019, 9:38 PM #1
AGuyCalledPi
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Well it should stand to reason that any working woman will not be able to progress in ther career as much as any working man, should she have a child during this particular period of time. A scenario in which the mother progresses as much in her career as the man could realistically only be the result of affirmative action (also known as positive discrimination), which is something that was commonly appreciated for a while but is now falling out of favour over concerns that it's, among other things, condescending and unfair.
In real life motherhood is, in fact, the largest contributing factor to the gender wage gap phenomenon. And while half a century ago a pregnancy would surely mean the end of a woman's working career, nowadays it can go all sorts of ways. Usually at her own discretion, too.

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

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Old 7th Jan 2019, 10:55 PM #2
pova
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Just speaks to why balancing motherhood and an active career requires a great bit of compromise. This is why women with particularly stressful and competitive professions like CEOs or lawyers tend to opt out of it entirely.
Old 8th Jan 2019, 12:33 AM #3
Gargoyle Cat
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Yeah, it is silly, but we all got to learn a new term: positive discrimination.

I'm not going to ask what it means. It makes just as much sense as a person that touts "Eat.The.Rich! Feed.The.Poor!" but yet these people go out every year and buy a new IPhone, hence making Tim Cook's wallet fatter. And how about all those big banks with their credit cards? People claim to hate big banks because of the 'rich factor', but yet, these same people love paying interest to them. Speaking of interest, lets not forgot how much interest people shell out to big government because... student loans.

US Debt Clock

Strange times we live in...

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 12:50 AM #4
nitromon
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I think men should get paid maternity leave too. I could use a paid vacation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pretenshus
Men in this game can become pregnant as well so I wouldn't read into it so much.


Without mods? Only by alien abduction I think...


Quote:
Originally Posted by pico22
I think it represents the current situation of women quite accurately. Agree or disagree?


Well, how accurate do you want it to go? There's a mod out there in which your sim can gain fast career gains by uh.. doing ..uh... woohoo favors for the boss. I'm sure in real life women tend to benefit more from this career move than men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
but yet these people go out every year and buy a new IPhone, hence making Tim Cook's wallet fatter. And how about all those big banks with their credit cards?


Haha reminds me of this meme I saw on the net:

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Last edited by nitromon : 8th Jan 2019 at 1:05 AM.
Old 8th Jan 2019, 8:25 AM #5
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 8:30 AM #6
AGuyCalledPi
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I'm sure the term "positive discrimination" has been around for as long as anyone other than white heterosexual men has been allowed to hold a job. The intentions are noble, for sure, but it's proven not to be that great of an idea. What you're essentially doing is fighting inequality with.....more inequality. I don't really know the politics of it but I'm sure it's not crazy to think that maybe, if you plan to bear and raise children, you're not going to have much time to be a CEO anyway. I happen to know for a fact that 100% of male CEOs have never been pregnant.

Anyway, it seems The Sims is fairly enlightened on this either way and I think we need not worry about it. Aside from occasional snafus (getting slandered by the press in LN for having a child out of wedlock like it's 1932) I'd say the game is generally vaguely competent at treating people equally.

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 12:03 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingFace
Do pregnant men get the same leaves?



But what about vampires, genies and werewolves... oh my. LOL According to the SJW-type, it's all about being inclusive. We can't sit around pondering if just pixelated men and women should get time off, we need to include everybody. Leaving out plant sims and ghosts (even though they can't have babies to the best of my knowledge) is negative discrimination.

It is one thing when a guru flips their lid over a dog house. It's another to get bent over maternity leave for pixel people in a game where people proudly talk about how they kill their pixel people. It's weird...

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 12:43 PM #8
AGuyCalledPi
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To be fair, the dog house thing was genuinely fucking dumb. I wouldn't force my dog to live outside the house in a little shack either, but in a game that otherwise strongly relies on classic stereotypes of suburban American living, how can they seriously exclude it? That's as typical as the white picket fence, the housewife with the apple pie and the landyacht in the driveway. I can excuse the housewife not being there because we're not sexist pigs anymore, and I can excuse the landyacht because they died out in the 1970s. The Japanese came over, after all, and convinced America of the virtues of the econobox. But I'm not allowed to talk about this any further lest it skim too close to the subject matter of my next Bridgeport'88 episode.

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 1:44 PM #9
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With us, it's 30 (15+15) days for father only; however, the whole of maternity leave (1 year: a month obligatory before the birth) can be divided between the partners (or even another person in appropriate circumstances) as they see fit. All of it is paid, nothing (but that one month) is enforced.

I know about "positive discrimination". Such a rule does not exist where I am living; personally, I completely disagree with it. Meritocracy all the way.

----------------------------
On a totally unrelated note: when I went to sleep I had one "disagree" and no answers. When I woke up, a whole thread was going on. That reminds me of an old experience. With us, in a seminar the professor spoke and students listened and did not speak unless prodded by a stick, so to speak. When I came to a seminar at an American university I was shocked to notice that everybody was talking all of the time (except for me, unless prodded by a stick).
Old 8th Jan 2019, 1:44 PM #10
Gargoyle Cat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrijzePilion
To be fair, the dog house thing was genuinely fucking dumb. I wouldn't force my dog to live outside the house in a little shack either, but in a game that otherwise strongly relies on classic stereotypes of suburban American living, how can they seriously exclude it? That's as typical as the white picket fence, the housewife with the apple pie and the landyacht in the driveway. I can excuse the housewife not being there because we're not sexist pigs anymore, and I can excuse the landyacht because they died out in the 1970s. The Japanese came over, after all, and convinced America of the virtues of the econobox. But I'm not allowed to talk about this any further lest it skim too close to the subject matter of my next Bridgeport'88 episode.


No mention about how I forgot fairies, Griz? You sleepin' or what.

The 'culture' of TS3 is always your fall back argument. We've been through this more times than I care to count. One of these days you will figure out that complaining about this 'problem' to people that actually makes ( made) the game versus those that play it is a better way to deal with such rants. Keep in mind, your complaining will not change TS4 or any possible sims games in the future as EA gives zero fugs unless you are a investor that adds millions to their coffers, but at at least your issue would be addressed to the ears that need to hear it.

I will now put on my Capt. Obvious hat and remind you of something else. You complain, complain, complain and yet, you still play. I guess that goes along with the whole big business is evil and yet you contribute to it, thing. removes hat

Here's the contact list for EA. You're welcome.

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 3:36 PM #11
AGuyCalledPi
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I don't think I know what you're talking about. Fairies? Culture? Me complaining? However, since you're clearly out to be mad for the hell of it, for whatever reason you might have to, it doesn't matter a goddamn thing to me. I for one have better things to do than consistently be rude to others without actually ever having the guts to make it a proper spit roast. If you're going to be rude to me, make it hurt. More fun for all involved.

Actually: I lied. I will entertain the comment above because the idea that participating in the economy whilst disapproving of market capitalism is hypocrisy, is such a shallow argument that I can't help but take note of it. To what end would you say that it's hypocrisy? It's always the same example of the new iPhone every year. I must've heard that one a hundred times by now. Makes sense, because it's easy and so unsubtle that an oranguatan could be made to agree with it. I just wonder if it only applies to iPhones or other stuff as well. I drank Pepsi yesterday; clearly I must be a dreaded champagne socialist. How dare I use any product with a brand name, surely I'm actively promoting the excesses of the market. I also can't help but feel that anyone who buys a new iPhone every year is more than a hypocrite. I'd say, fashion victim, bad with money, shallow. I just got a new phone last week because my old one had a rendezvous with the floor but if it hadn't, I'd be using it for more than those 2 years. I'm a loyal Samsung user, for the record, so feel free to yell at me.

Anyway, I get the feeling that this is the kind of thread that's only going to get worse as it goes on. This forum is too nice for shit-slinging political talk, at least, some of you guys are, and I don't see the point in continuing it given that it's not particularly welcome. I'd really love to take it up elsewhere and I'm totally up for making a play-date out of it but it'll have to wait, I've got to sit out my inevitable permaban for a bit

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

(Oh, and join my dumb Discord server for more on that or if you like dead things, my Tumblr.)
Last edited by GrijzePilion : 8th Jan 2019 at 3:57 PM.
Old 8th Jan 2019, 5:10 PM #12
Volvenom
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In my country men has leave as well. Some silly guys of course went to some EU court or something, claiming the men should have as much leave as the woman. We had some more for woman, since they carried the baby, and the body might need more time to heal, but no the court didn't think so. Concequence is, woman got less and men got more. Probably not what they wanted lol. The government probably though they had enough time off

It turned out if guys get to use their fatherleave, it has to be obligatory. The businesses doesn't like it, but the fathers love it.
Old 8th Jan 2019, 8:32 PM #13
ElaineNualla
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Maybe we get a stick (a long one) and keep the fighting between so called (by theirs antagonists) "SJW" and theirs opposition, these, I dunno... "antisocial just warriors" or "social injustice warriors" ( (?) sry, I cannot help) at the distance. A serious one. Please?
#prettypleaseface

My question wasn't intended as a part of deep social academic debate, it was just curiosity, "we Europeans" [insert: GorillaProudChestBumpingTag]*, even minor or tiniest ones, use to forget that USA is really big and diverse country, my friends from there (for example) are quite diversed in opinions in said topic, I presume: because of theirs' personal experience.

Back to the game: I'd say @igazor pointed in right direction - while in the game world, somewhat between Disney-like kind of suburbia and nightmare-like from Stepford Wifes or Edward Scissorhand (or Adams Family *wink*) there's rather complete equality (25 years old violet-skin gay vampire-witch hybrid girl as Politician level 10? no problem) and career's levels diversity depends of much more that just "working hard".**



*please, could we have that kind of emoji there #prettierfaceplease
** actualy my only one super bussines millionaire sim has never "worked hard" in his simlife, he always just slacked with his great irrestible charisma at command, becoming top career before 40... isn't that somewhat ehm. Realistic? Kinda?

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 8:32 PM #14
AGuyCalledPi
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It's been a very normal thing for quite some time. I really don't disagree with its purpose but clearly, it's something that's just not really compatible with our values. We're artificially inflating the performance of certain demographics on the job market. It strongly undermines the notion that, you know, any of these people could ACTUALLY be as competent as the straight white male. The more you think about it, really, the less sense it makes. But on the other hand it bothers me when one group of people turns out to be less competent than the other. No person should be better or worse than another, but sometimes that's how it is.

At least Sims are all equal in every sense of the word. There's a small voice inside of me that yearns for a Sims game where all the ugliness of the real world is prevalent, be it bigotry, hate, jealousy, anger. It could even be fun, having to play as a Sim who is treated like a lesser human. But I agree wholeheartedly with the way the game is right now.

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

(Oh, and join my dumb Discord server for more on that or if you like dead things, my Tumblr.)
Old 9th Jan 2019, 5:45 AM #15
nitromon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pico22
With us, in a seminar the professor spoke and students listened and did not speak unless prodded by a stick, so to speak. When I came to a seminar at an American university I was shocked to notice that everybody was talking all of the time (except for me, unless prodded by a stick).


Yeah I'm kind mixed on that as well. On the one hand, it is good to encourage discussion and critical thinking. Students shouldn't just be brain dead sponges absorbing everything a professor says without thought. On the other hand, I've seen retarded students arguing with a professor to the point of profanity and even crying and I was thinking to myself, "Hey, you're a student and you're here to learn. He's a professor with a doctorate who has earned it with decades of research and publication. You think you're here to lecture him?"

All I know is, Star Wars say "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," a lot of things can be bad when it becomes extremism. Jurassic Park says, "Some of the worst things imaginable were done with the best of intentions," so be careful b/c even if your intentions are good, you can be doing a bad thing. And to sum it up, South Park says, "Sometimes you can be right and still be wrong and you can be wrong but still be right," depending on how you approach a topic.

So if you get anything out of what I'm trying to say is... I get my proverbs from TV shows and movies so you probably shouldn't take anything I've said seriously.

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:13 AM #16
AGuyCalledPi
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Only a Sith deals in absolutes......and that's why I watch Star Trek

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

(Oh, and join my dumb Discord server for more on that or if you like dead things, my Tumblr.)
Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:32 AM #17
mithrak_nl
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I never understood why giving birth to a kid should be so hindering a woman's career. Unless they chose themselves to stay at home the coming years to take care of them ofc. But otherwise I think it is ridiculous that the idea alone (that a woman could get pregnant) is a reason to limit someone's career options in many parts of the world (if not most).

I can think of only a few positions where being physically away from a job for a long time , could be a problem for a company if they won't get a (temporarily) replacement. And the funny thing is, those are all hands on jobs. So at lower positions in a company. Jobs where you have to be physically present (production worker, service jobes etc). But that would be the same case if someone becomes ill. I mean a flu could cause someone to be unavailable for communication for a longer period then when all goes well giving birth. Anyway, even if they would take full three months rest after giving birth, it should be still possible for most positions to cope with that. Especially because you see it coming from a mile away and can plan for it so you can do the work from home,or to assist a temporarily replacement.

Nowadays with fast internet communication and smartphones it is ridiculous that there is still this way of thinking. Someone's brain does not stop after having a child.
Last edited by mithrak_nl : 9th Jan 2019 at 10:34 AM. Reason: need more words to make sentences :/
Old 9th Jan 2019, 12:39 PM #18
AGuyCalledPi
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I don't think it's inherently wrong, parenthood should always take priority over work. That goes for all parents equally, there's really no reason the mother should stay at home and do the parenting if there's another parent figure in the picture. But having a child means dealing with the responsibilities that come with it. In a Sim sort of dynamic it's something that I've used to retcon certain things about the character of Lorelei in Bridgeport 2017. Technically, of course, Laura is just a made over clone of Lorelei but the story goes that Laura and Jeremy have a daughter together around the time Bridgeport'88 begins.
Laura is hell-bent on making the most of her career while Jeremy fades away after a few years. This would explain why Lorelei is a socially restrained person who has no family close to her, but enough money to live on her own comfortably. Laura was never able to take care of her adequately, but made up for it by providing for her estranged daughter. It's a nice contrast to Amber who was always very close with her parents, and who eventually exceeded their achievements.

Amber has two parents who both had a good career at the time; Lorelei has one. Amber's parents didn't let work get in the way of their responsibilities as parents.....Laura did. In the "Farlands" save none of this is relevant because genuine human interaction can largely be supplemented by technology. That's not to say that a child should ever be left to their own with a non-tactile hologram, or a very real android figure for that matter. The hologram is literally a cloud of polarized photons projected onto a light-sensitive oxygen field. It cannot be touched, it's not a coherent physical entity and merely emulates a human presence (or a pot plant for that matter, holographic flora are NOT a cool sort of thing but businesses love to use them). It's short-term only and extremely harmful to have to spend a life with. Any automaton-android companion, while definitely physical, won't do it either. Like chemically induced sleep supplements, a normal human mind can only interact with those impulses for so long before the illusion shatters and severe mental health issues kick in. That's not even science fiction, that's an issue you can see coming a century or two in advance. Children need tender love and care and nothing can replace that.

Look out for BRIDGEPORT'88 - it's the hottest new show on YT this season!
Already renewed for '89!

(Oh, and join my dumb Discord server for more on that or if you like dead things, my Tumblr.)
Last edited by GrijzePilion : 9th Jan 2019 at 12:53 PM.
Old 9th Jan 2019, 9:23 PM #19
nitromon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithrak_nl
I never understood why giving birth to a kid should be so hindering a woman's career. Unless they chose themselves to stay at home the coming years to take care of them ofc. But otherwise I think it is ridiculous that the idea alone (that a woman could get pregnant) is a reason to limit someone's career options in many parts of the world (if not most).




I like to answer this but I want you to know I'm purely answering it as a sociological response. Please, anyone reading this do not be offended.

This is such a "man" response and it is what gets man into trouble and what causes a lot of our problems in society regarding men/women. And I say that not to lecture men but sharing how I use to think exactly the same way until I got into enough breakups and their constant complaint was how insensitive I was and how I didn't "get them." And it is such differences why men and women don't get along.

I say it is a "man" answer b/c men typically think more rationally, logically... to them it is always about the physical equation. Hey, you popped a kid, get back to work next day if you're physically ok. What's the big deal?

An example: A girl thinks she might be pregnant and talks to her boyfriend about it. Boyfriend says, sure go get a test. If you're pregnant, go to the doctor and get an abortion. Girl asks the boy to go with her to the doctor, he replies, "Why? I'll give you the money and you just go in your spare time and get it done. Why do I need to be there? What's the big deal?"

Women are typically more emotional than men and by that I don't mean simply take how you feel and multiply it. It isn't just intensity of feeling but they feel a lot more times/circumstances, feel more weird feelings we know nothing about. Hey, I'm not agreeing with it. I would like it if women are not so emotional, however, aging has taught me there are some things you cannot change and men and women are different. That's just the way it is.

So with that understanding, look at pregnancy again. It isn't just the physical recovery, but pregnant women are a giant ball of emotions. That's what the recovery part is for. They need the time to bond with the child and get over any emotional issues etc... until they're emotionally ready to get back to work. Now, some women can be ready within a day, some months, some years. That's just how it is.

Frankly, I think it is good for the kid too. You know kids behavior starts to shape the day you take them home from the hospital. And I think kids who are born and then dumped at a daycare or in the hands of a stranger called nanny while parents focus on their career is bad for the child. Lack of genuine nurturing and strong connection with parents is what created a generation of disrespectful sociopaths that think they're entitled to everything. Probably b/c their parents spoiled them with physical gifts as a compensation for their guilt of not being there.

Anyhow, I hope you men reading this learned a few things. When your wife or girlfriend needs to get an abortion, a cancer screening, etc... Don't just give her your credit card and say, "Go get it done." You actually have to go with them. You don't have to understand why. You don't have to agree with it. You just need to get it done and be there. I learned it the hard way.

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Last edited by nitromon : 9th Jan 2019 at 9:37 PM.
Old 10th Jan 2019, 12:30 AM #20
Giga
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Is this a serious reply or are you being sarcastic? If you're being serious, may I ask you how old are you?

Honestly can't tell.

e.g you say you don't want to offend anybody but yet you say "Anyhow, I hope you men reading this learned a few things" as if men, in general, were that stupid.
Old 10th Jan 2019, 1:37 AM #21
nitromon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowMixPls
e.g you say you don't want to offend anybody but yet you say "Anyhow, I hope you men reading this learned a few things" as if men, in general, were that stupid.


Most are. Have you paid attention to the society lately? People are stupid in general. Hey, after all, isn't that why we play sims? Because we prefer the company of sims over people. We play sims to get away from the stupidity of people.

I meant my "intent" was not to offend, but I expect people to be offended b/c a lot of emo fruitcake snowflakes are easily offended by anything these days. I merely meant, this is not directed at anyone specifically and these are things I've learned and gone through myself. I was that stupid too so if a reader feels stupid about this, don't feel offended for being stupid.

Obviously if a reader already knows the point of my post, then why would they feel offended, it doesn't regard them. But obviously there are guys out there who still don't get it as sims players age do range from teenagers to those in their 40s. Right?

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Old 10th Jan 2019, 4:04 AM #22
Gargoyle Cat
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I dated a guy once many moons ago that had the "Men and women don't get along" attitude. He was smart, worked hard, played hard, was close to his family and would give the shirt off of his back if somebody close to him needed one. The overgrown, burly, leather-wearing beast was also a animal lover. He'd walk around the house with one of his Siamese cats wrapped around his neck like a scarf. I'm not sure who liked this more, the cat or the beast. I digress.

There was one problem with the beast; his Harley. It was a beautiful motorcycle, always kept as of it was just rolled off the show room floor. I'm cool with guys and their toys, but when toys become a obsession and that's all there is in life, there's a problem. The beast didn't see his obsession as a problem. Just to get a rise out of him, I'd talk about squirting some oil under his beloved motorcycle and within seconds, all the veins in his neck would come to the surface. I never actually did it, but just talking was enough to act like a trigger.

The beast wasn't in my life for long. I figured since his bike was so important, they should have their happily ever after without my interfering. He was perfectly capable of getting along with other people, and he did, however, the world was to blame for all of his problems with women. Nobody ever told him that he couldn't or shouldn't have a motorcycle. It was the fact that he couldn't either physically leave the bike alone or wouldn't stop talking about that was the problem. I learned at that point in time that one cannot reason with the unreasonable. Fun times!

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Old 10th Jan 2019, 5:10 AM #23
nitromon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
I'm cool with guys and their toys, but when toys become a obsession and that's all there is in life, there's a problem.


I broke up with my last girlfriend b/c she keeps bothering me when I'm simming.

Yes, I chose sims over her. Honestly, can anyone here blame me?!

Sanity is overrated.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Old 10th Jan 2019, 8:21 AM #24
AGuyCalledPi
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Other way around for me, I let my Simming take precedence over socializing and it's definitely a major reason for me being single. It's a conscious choice on the one hand and a shortcoming on the other.

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Old 10th Jan 2019, 8:39 AM #25
Gargoyle Cat
Mad Poster

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,973
1 Achievements


Quote:
Originally Posted by nitromon
I broke up with my last girlfriend b/c she keeps bothering me when I'm simming.

Yes, I chose sims over her. Honestly, can anyone here blame me?!


I don't care either way, but, like the beast, it goes against your own argument that men and women don't get along. To each their own...

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