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Original Poster
#1 Old 14th May 2017 at 1:08 PM Last edited by natboopsie : 14th May 2017 at 2:03 PM.
Default Our habits and discoveries about hoods based on controversial storylines/premises
Hi, everyone.

Before tonight, I hadn't posted in almost a year. Most recently, that's been in large part because I haven't had access to my gaming computers for months, making it impossible to do some of the testing and exploration-type stuff that I love to do with the game. (Those of you who remember me probably remember my fascination with exploring the nitty-gritty of game mechanics!) Though by now, I just miss playing too.

At some point, I decided I missed the game, and this community, enough that I wanted to at least hang around here again and see what other simmers were doing. But in coming back, I've noticed and been concerned about something that seems new. There's a lot more fighting and (to me) shocking anger that seems to get touched off almost randomly when one person or another is upset by a fictional premise someone else is using to start a new neighborhood.

Goodness knows, the whole world seems a lot more conflict oriented lately. But here, in a community intended to bring people together through their love of a particular game, I was thinking that perhaps it's possible to damp down future conflict by just understanding one another a little better. For example, to me, if someone else is using a fictional premise to start a new hood on, that sure is interesting and probably would make for some very absorbing gameplay for the simmer. And that's that---I don't assume they support the premise or want society to follow it in real life. Because a game, and a sandbox game like this one especially, is designed for exploration---and to me, exploration is what helps you recognize what is really important/acceptable/intolerable to you.

Maybe, though, folks who get irate when others suggest that they want to base a hood on a particular premise are irate because they themselves would never start a hood to explore an idea as just an idea. To those folks, maybe it is not fathomable that you would start a hood based on any premise you would not personally support for real-life society, or based on any premise that you find tragic or upsetting or horrifying.

But I'm just guessing there. So I have some discussion-type questions, because I'd like to understand more about how other simmers see these issues around hood development. I hope that talking about it helps us all understand each other a little better too.
1. Have you ever started a hood based on rules or premises that you would not want to see implemented in the real world? Is it something you do regularly when starting a new hood? Why or why not? (Please note: especially if they are controversial premises, it might be best if you *didn't* share many specifics of what your premises were! Please save those for other threads. I don't want this to degenerate into another thread where anyone has reason to point fingers and condemn someone else. I just want for the community to talk about *whether* or *how often* we actually base gameplay on any premises that could upset others (realized that's too loaded, so rephrasing...) we ourselves might not agree with or want to see in the real world, so it's more clear to everyone how often other simmers use such ideas as hood inspirations.)

2. (skip to 4 if you answered "No" to 1) Why, generally, did you want to do this, preferably beyond "I thought it might be fun/I was bored"? Morbid curiosity, say, or the challenge of just coming up with interesting cc or using the game's engine to simulate a particular social structure? Or really nothing so thought-out?

3. Did you feel that playing such a hood helped you learn something about yourself or about the world or how you see it? Would you like to share that insight?

4. If you never have started such premised hoods, would you? Why or why not?

Here are my answers.
1. I think I've only had one hood with any premises that I wouldn't have wanted to see occur in the real world. I haven't done it again just because setting it up was a lot of work to get "right," but if I were less of a perfectionist there I'd possibly have explored some other kinda-scary society-types and situations by now. Though maybe not---doing so does take away from the game's escapism.
2. In lots of ways, I find the vanilla game too easy, and I wanted a setting where, well, happiness was built in as a lot harder to come by.
3. Yes. I learned that I don't like to see beloved sims suffer (I cloned sims I already had played with in other hoods to become characters in this one, kind of an alternate reality). I also learned that yep, hardship really can be heartbreaking. So to keep my game entertaining and not just depressing, I probably would never want a scary-premise hood as the only one I played at the time.
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Scholar
#2 Old 14th May 2017 at 4:30 PM
1: Not really, no. The farthest I've gone is families with premises that wouldn't be very accepted. I once hacked a brother and sister to become a couple. They have been long gone now. I have Bigfoot Romance Installed so perhaps some people would think hooking up with Bigfoot is horrible. I have been adding in more mods that cause death easier and drama like ACR. I do hard challenges. I have 2 murder mystery 'hoods. And my Strangetown is full of monster Sims. Not sure if any of this counts.

However, my medieval folder is a different story. Things are much harder and people die very easily. I have come to really enjoy it and hate it at the same time.

2: The stories I come up with are really to see if I can do it.

3: Only with the medieval folder. I've learned that I can make things so much harder on myself while playing and if modded correctly, the Sims can really be made to mirror real life.

"Oh look, my grandchild is now an elder. They grow up so fast. Gee, I wonder when I'll finally graduate college." Sims 2
Field Researcher
#3 Old 14th May 2017 at 4:41 PM
Hi Natboopsie

1. Yes - many iterations of zombie apocalypse hoods, also ones set in past eras with the corresponding inequalities based on rank and gender, including a Roman one, which had slavery.
2. I agree with you, after a while it is too easy to play vanilla and I like a new challenge. It gets boring watching Sims watch television and play for hours on the computer (irony there!), also I am a download fiend, never happier than when hunting out themed items and setting up a new hood. Playing a miserable hood isn't depressing if there is a sense of progression, and by achieving goals your Sims can work towards a happier future.

3. No, I am afraid not. I only enjoyed myself.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#4 Old 14th May 2017 at 7:15 PM Last edited by maxon : 15th May 2017 at 1:48 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
1. Have you ever started a hood based on rules or premises that you would not want to see implemented in the real world? Is it something you do regularly when starting a new hood? Why or why not?

2. (skip to 4 if you answered "No" to 1) Why, generally, did you want to do this, preferably beyond "I thought it might be fun/I was bored"? Morbid curiosity, say, or the challenge of just coming up with interesting cc or using the game's engine to simulate a particular social structure? Or really nothing so thought-out?

3. Did you feel that playing such a hood helped you learn something about yourself or about the world or how you see it? Would you like to share that insight?

4. If you never have started such premised hoods, would you? Why or why not?

1. Oh yes, all the time.
2. The why is because I like to explore ideas and stories and work through ideas. I'm not much interested in the game as a game - I wouldn't still be using it if I was. I'd be playing something else. I like this particular toy because it allows me to mess around with stuff as I like and that's why I still use it.
3. Not really - I like stories and that's about it. But I knew that already.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
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#5 Old 14th May 2017 at 8:01 PM
1) Like others have said, medieval hoods. They're very restrictive when it comes to social structures, gender, race, etc, which is definitely not something I approve of in real life.
I have a hood based on Anne Rice's Mayfair Witches. If you're not familiar with the books, the family tree is less of a tree and more of a circle.
Not completely related, since I have yet to base a hood around this, but my Romance sims often have affairs if they end up married, which I disapprove of in real life.

2) Medieval because of the CC mainly. Mayfair because a witch legacy challenge is fun and because I want to see how messed up a family tree can get before the game implodes. As for the Romance sims, because this game makes for the perfect soap opera drama.

3) I've played this game for a while now, and compared to when I was a teenager, my opinion on some controversial stuff has definitely changed. For example, I used to have InTeen installed, but now I don't like the idea anymore. Not to judge anybody who uses it, it's just that as i grew older I didn't like the concept anymore.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#6 Old 14th May 2017 at 11:01 PM
I have a social class system based on wealth in my medieval folder. That's about all I can think of, my hoods tend to be more on the idyllic side apart from poverty.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#7 Old 15th May 2017 at 12:53 AM
Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
1. Have you ever started a hood based on rules or premises that you would not want to see implemented in the real world? Is it something you do regularly when starting a new hood? Why or why not?

My main megahood centers around themes that are "controversial" or rather extremely uncomfortable to some. Every time I start a new game (In any addition of this series to be truthful), I look at ways to experiment, which usually means diving into societal taboos and other such questionable themes.

Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
2.Why, generally, did you want to do this, preferably beyond "I thought it might be fun/I was bored"? Morbid curiosity, say, or the challenge of just coming up with interesting cc or using the game's engine to simulate a particular social structure? Or really nothing so thought-out?


There is much can be learned from experimentation. As The Sims series are Simulation games, where the whole focus of the game is to experiment, and I take the opportunity given. To me, there really isn't ever challenge in it, pushing into my "uncomfortable zone", but rather creativity and psychology. I like to tinker around with the mechanics of our world in general and create plausible outcomes and this game helps with this. And also, by reverse engineering this games' rule set, it allows for me as a player, to get a glimpse of other perspectives and learn much about how we, and why we, as people interact with the world.

Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
3. Did you feel that playing such a hood helped you learn something about yourself or about the world or how you see it? Would you like to share that insight?


The biggest question I find my self asking when playing is more of a matter of "why?" rather than the common "why not?" mentality associated with video games. In my time, I find seeking the problem is much more enjoyable than utilizing its solution.

Because the earth is standing still, and the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet, no one hears Cassandra Goth cry

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#8 Old 15th May 2017 at 1:09 AM
So interesting, you guys. Thank you so far!

I think I have learned from starting other discussion threads that coming back in and talking too much seems to shut the discussion down...so I will refrain from further comment just yet and look for more, hopefully from both sides of this. I am loving the comments!
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#9 Old 15th May 2017 at 9:57 AM
Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
1. Have you ever started a hood based on rules or premises that you would not want to see implemented in the real world? Is it something you do regularly when starting a new hood? Why or why not? (Please note: especially if they are controversial premises, it might be best if you *didn't* share many specifics of what your premises were! Please save those for other threads. I don't want this to degenerate into another thread where anyone has reason to point fingers and condemn someone else. I just want for the community to talk about *whether* or *how often* we actually base gameplay on any premises that could upset others (realized that's too loaded, so rephrasing...) we ourselves might not agree with or want to see in the real world, so it's more clear to everyone how often other simmers use such ideas as hood inspirations.)


My first neighbourhood in TS2, way back in 2004, wasn't based on any such rules. It was a nice town that slowly grew, and while it had a few inhabitants that weren't exactly lovely the town as a whole didn't have anything I wouldn't want implemented in the real world. Before I stopped playing that neighbourhood and moved to TS3, I did start a storyline that would be potentially contraversial, involving independence movements and (constitutional) monarchies, but nothing that I personally wouldn't want to see implemented (especially given this was all set in an entirely fictional country - I'm not saying I fervently support any particular real-world independence movement).

After that, both towards the end of my first obsession with TS2 and since I came back to the game three years ago, I've mostly played pre-made hoods. I've enjoyed taking a setup someone else has created and adapting the story from there - possibly because setting up drama myself seems too cruel? My only other hood I've started from scratch is a build-a-city one that really hasn't got far, and has no real theme, pleasant or otherwise.

The other neighbourhood I want to mention, however, that really is an example is actually a TS3 hood rather than TS2 (though played in rotation through some households with ageing controlled, so played 'TS2-style'). The founder of my controlled sims founded a religious cult, and some of the rules for life in the religion were... unpleasant. And, in the way that some such cults do, it attracted various other unpleasant sims who took things even further... I certainly wouldn't want those rules implemented in the real world.

Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
2. Why, generally, did you want to do this, preferably beyond "I thought it might be fun/I was bored"? Morbid curiosity, say, or the challenge of just coming up with interesting cc or using the game's engine to simulate a particular social structure? Or really nothing so thought-out?


My first TS2 town, which wasn't potentially contraversial to start with but maybe became so later, I wanted some history, for the town, the area, and the sims themselves. So I made some up - and then I realised that (some of) the sims living in the town would react to that history, and try to build a different future. And I didn't disagree with them - it wasn't exactly a nice, cheerful history! But then, how many countries do have a cheerful history?

The TS3 town with the religious cult was, oddly enough, inspired by a mod. AwesomeMod protects sims from Story Progression with a special trait called "Chosen", and a description of the sim in question as one of "God's Chosen People" - and I thought, what if a sim really thinks he is this? A sim who thinks that anything he does is right, and that others should live the way he wants to? And then also I enjoyed the challenge of making it happen in the game, and building their compound, and keeping other sims out, and stopping cult members socialising with non-cult members (except the founder, who had to try and convert new members).

Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
3. Did you feel that playing such a hood helped you learn something about yourself or about the world or how you see it? Would you like to share that insight?


Religious cults are oddly fascinating, even though I'd never want to join one?

Other than that - sims are sims, and not people, and they can appear happy in situations I'm sure people wouldn't be happy in. So I don't know that I learned much, except in technical terms about how TS3 works and what certain mods can do. But on the whole I enjoyed it (and planned the escape of a certain Fay Chosen and her boyfriend/ future husband from her father's cult).
Mad Poster
#10 Old 15th May 2017 at 5:26 PM
1. Not so much plan a neighborhood for the purpose, but yes, rules that others/myself find disturbing.
2. Historical neighborhoods. Ways of dealing with real world issues. (This second is where it always gets contentious. Some people want to block those things from their game, others of us prefer to work through our issues in our games.)
3. I have a feeling a truthful and complete answer to this would dissolve into a fight very quickly. Sometimes the answers we get aren't what we'd like. But remember that most of history sucked in comparison to now, both in terms of luxuries and liberties, and most people still found enough enjoyment in their lives to keep living.

I've been sorry to see people jumping to conclusions about other people based on what they say about their games lately. We've seen massive popularity of dystopias in books and movies recently. Obviously there's a cultural psychological thing going on here (in the USA) that is bringing this to the forefront. Watching politics (my bad habit) leads me to the suspicion that it's going on worldwide. There are days that our world reminds me of Omelas. (Did I spell that right? Ursala K. LeGuin.) Except right now a lot of people are trying to walk away and finding out that their cultures won't let them decline to participate, unlike Omelas, where at least they let you walk out the city gates and there's no outside-the-city culture shown. (You can move, in the real world, but you can't move away from much of what you want to not participate in, because nowhere lets you opt out.)

Years ago, I posted a scenario in What's Going On in Your Game, that happened in my game. It was something I would find problematic in real life, and the 'causes' were certainly offensive. No one took offense at the scenario (or perhaps I'm particularly thick-skinned), though some worried very much for the mental welfare of the sims involved, just as they would if they found out one of their friends was in such a situation. I thought the responses were rather sweet. I hope as a community we can get back to that place.

My suggestions are simple: assume the best of others. Assume if they're playing something you don't like that they're working through their own issues in their own way. There are a lot of things we don't know about each other here. There are things we do. People might want to work through things without talking about why they want to. They may not want your sympathy for the stuff that happened in their past. They may just want to simulate their situation so they can work through it.

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
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#11 Old 15th May 2017 at 6:52 PM
This is simply a game that happens to offer a great many creative and story telling opportunities.
Scholar
#12 Old 16th May 2017 at 12:25 AM
1. What, you mean like giving everyone in town "No Jealousy" and "Inapropriate but in a good way" in TS3? I mean, innocent accidents happen. You want to have a snack and accidentally use someone's kitchen. Or you go to get a drink, and end up riding the host's husband like he's one of those mechanical bulls. It happens, you know? And I don't have time for that drama. Took those and then everyone was like, "yeah, she's upstairs getting gangbanged, BUT IT'S IN A GOOD WAY."

Well, more seriously, virtually all my setups range between just taking the piss and, well, distopian AND taking the piss. Reminds me of one time when on my island the Party decreed that some people's having twins and some not, is one of the great injustices of the burgeois regime, so everyone had to be Gemini. You know, twins at least in spirit. *Ahem* Anyway, you get the idea.

Probably the tamest I've done was having 7 roommates around the house, so my vampire can have a drink.

2. Nope, just taking the piss. Or the voices in my head thought it would be a good idea.

3. Sims ain't exactly human, you know? Now I'm not bigotted against sims. Some of my best friends are sims. But they ain't human, ya know? So I don't really expect that stuff I do in the game -- like making the professor write my term paper - translates well into RL lessons.
Scholar
#13 Old 16th May 2017 at 1:46 AM Last edited by Enki : 16th May 2017 at 1:49 AM. Reason: grammer, don't care about typos, but about grammer
1.
Yes, most of the time, actually, the most prominent example being my Desiderata Valley. Except for abortion and child abuse I think I have included everything that I definitely not want in real life.

2.
Believability
I make use of all the supernatural and unrealistic elements that ship with the game, so in keeping the real-world dynamics in I achieve at least a modicum of "realism". In the real world, just a few neighborhoods away from my happy firstworld bubble, all the controversial setups exist for real. My humans may wield magic and fly to the moon, but they still act like humans with all their vices and have to deal with what real humans have to deal with on a daily basis.

Control/Power
Events in life often feel out of our power. In the Sims we can plunge our characters into the deepest pits, but every single second we have the power to say "stopp" and give them the best lifes we can. It is safe.

Accomplishment/Escapism
I admit most of the time I start my controversial setups with the intent to overcome the hardships and lead my sims to a happy ending. It just feels so much better to have reached the top of a career if it's not just to get enough money to expand the patio, but carries far-reaching consequences for the 'hood. Marriages achieved, fights won, ghosts met, even having dug up enough rock - all of this becomes larger than life if it translates into victory points that one day may drive the occupational forces out of my sims's hometown.

Drama
I think for the most part we read, write or watch TV to see how a conflict plays out? Same goes for gaming. I'm not into relationship drama (except perhaps for arranged marriages), so the controversial setups supply my dose of drama instead. Tight-knit groups facing problems that come from the outside while also competing against each other.

3.
No, still same old world, same old me.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 16th May 2017 at 5:21 PM
I think in general our world is just a much angrier place that it was even a year ago.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Mad Poster
Mad Poster
#16 Old 16th May 2017 at 8:17 PM
I often build hoods for an "agenda"; like, can a man and his 2 wives (OK in many cultures!) raise a bunch of kids in the woods? What if HIS only interest is getting more wives? And one of his wives is cuckoo, ignoring kids and messes and only wanting to talk about grilled cheese? What if I just pick ONE KID to control? With ACR, how many babies will they have? Who will even survive? And then I have fun picking their skins, clothes, etc.

Stand up, speak out. Just not to me..
Mad Poster
#17 Old 17th May 2017 at 7:07 AM
Quote: Originally posted by JDacapo
Oh, our world was plenty angry back in 2004.


Kids these days! You want scary and angry, try 2001, anytime after, oh, September 10th.

Or go back to the nineties. I don't remember where you're (JDacapo) at, but if you were in the USA, it was domestic terrorists and school shooters and the FBI, and the WTC bombing, which was international terrorists . . .

How about the eighties, before the Berlin Wall came down? I think that's my first memory of international affairs. I was eight. Before that, we all knew we were going to die in a nuclear war between the USA and the USSR, remember? Enough nukes to wipe all life off the planet eight or sixteen or God only knows how many times because it's classified.

I know there's people on here old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis (Grammapat?). There might even be a couple old enough to remember WWII and the atomic bombs. (My dad was going on seven when it ended, it's not outside of possible we have simmers from his generation.)

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
Top Secret Researcher
#18 Old 17th May 2017 at 7:40 AM
1. A whole hood I don't think so no. I do have families or particular Sims on premises I don't support in real life.

2. I like exploring things in the game as well as having challenges and a wide range of Sims. Just because a Sim or family of mine does something in the game does not mean I support it in real life.

3. I'm not sure really. I have learned I seem to like overcoming challenges in the game. I like to make stuff challenging for my Sims but in a way they can overcome the challenges to lead happier lives. Not sure what that says about me. Even when things aren't easy my Sims are generally happy though.

4. I don't see why I wouldn't start a whole hood based on a premise I don't support in real life. Games are just that, games. To explore things or for a challenge. To see if my Sims can overcome the things.

My Simblr
He/They
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#19 Old 17th May 2017 at 8:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by wickedjr89
1. A whole hood I don't think so no. I do have families or particular Sims on premises I don't support in real life.

2. I like exploring things in the game as well as having challenges and a wide range of Sims. Just because a Sim or family of mine does something in the game does not mean I support it in real life.

3. I'm not sure really. I have learned I seem to like overcoming challenges in the game. I like to make stuff challenging for my Sims but in a way they can overcome the challenges to lead happier lives. Not sure what that says about me. Even when things aren't easy my Sims are generally happy though.

4. I don't see why I wouldn't start a whole hood based on a premise I don't support in real life. Games are just that, games. To explore things or for a challenge. To see if my Sims can overcome the things.


Very well said. I believe that many of us find it interesting to explore this or that and to overcome challenges, obstacles and difficulties via our Sims. We are playing :-) I am a great grandmother who will never be too old to enjoy and appreciate the benefits of play
Scholar
#20 Old 17th May 2017 at 10:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Sunbee
Kids these days! You want scary and angry, try 2001, anytime after, oh, September 10th.


The difference is that previously there was at least an excuse to be scared and/or angry. I mean, having some nukes pointed at you, and leaders seemingly dead set on provoking each other to measure their dicks in front of their people, well, nobody can blame one for being a bit afraid. And dunno about the USA, but Germany had the USSR troops and tactical nukes right on the frikken border. And most projections were that in case it comes to actual war, the Russians would overrun Germany in a couple of weeks. Meanwhile the UK for example had the IRA shelling evem the prime minister's residence. Yeah, ok, I can't blame one for being a bit afraid of mortar rounds, or a bit angry about it.

But nowadays it went from being scared and angry about being nuked on short notice, to being scared and angry that some brown people might be getting medical care. Or wearing ethnic gear in public, oh, the horror. Or that OMG, some people might be, you know, GAY. We're enacting laws based on fear of a crime rate that is actually going DOWN, but fuck if we're not going to be MORE scared and angry then. Hell, forget actual crime, there are people angry and afraid that teenagers in funny outfits are hanging out in front of a McDonald's. 'Cause the elder gods know that a couple of gothy or punk 12 year olds -- or worse yet, a coupe of brown 12 year olds with scarves on their heads -- are as scary as a nuke, apparently.

And I'm not even particularly talking about the USA here. In Germany the AfD is scared and angry about some immigrants that aren't even in the same states where the AfD is the most butthurt. But you know, some Syrian refugees bein somewhere ELSE is apparently enough to get one angry that they even exist anyway.

So it's hard not to get the impression that the world is getting a shorter fuse, when it went from being angry at nukes being seen in Cuba to getting all angry about some arab kid seen in front of McDonald's. Seems to me like one needs a damned short fuse for the latter to seem even remotely worth flying off the hook about.
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#21 Old 17th May 2017 at 11:57 AM Last edited by natboopsie : 17th May 2017 at 11:53 PM.
Hi! Wow, this thread has been amazing, and now I'm finally able to carefully read through everything and will comment shortly, perhaps editing this post to do so if I have to avoid a double-post. (Edit: chose the double-post anyway because my response got so long!)

However, in the meantime, I'd like to exercise OP privilege and ask folks please to take elsewhere the current-events discussion and debate about the state of the world generally. I enjoy those discussions, but not in this thread, please. I strongly prefer to keep this a discussion about our games and our takes on them.

For anyone who does want to talk about current events, there's the Off-Topic Discussion and The Debate Room areas of the General Discussion area here on MTS (not related to the games). Thank you in advance!
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#22 Old 17th May 2017 at 11:52 PM Last edited by natboopsie : 18th May 2017 at 2:46 AM.
I hope you all will excuse the double post; it seemed justified to separate out my request and my response!

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments, I want to say first. I feel it's helped me understand the community better, and I hope it's similarly helped those who have participated as well as just read along.

Some folks explicitly disclaimed in their mention about their current or former hood premises that they don't necessarily support such a philosophy in real life. I understand why they felt they had to, and one hope of mine in starting this thread was/is that maybe this community can get (back?) to a place where people no longer have to do that to avoid getting flamed. (Thanks to those who explained better than I in the thread about how that works or should work, like Sunbee and wickedjr, to name just a couple.)

Sounds like most everyone who plays such hoods is saying that they do it because it's challenging and interesting. And for enjoyment, though what strikes me too is that several have said that the pleasure is also in helping their sims overcome the challenges they set. Which I think goes a long way to demonstrating that starting and playing a hood with these types of premises can be a hopeful act in some way. So there again, it sounds like assuming only malicious intents about such simming styles won't be accurate.

Among the many intriguing comments, here are a few statements that particularly caught my attention:

Quote: Originally posted by maxon
I'm not much interested in the game as a game - I wouldn't still be using it if I was. I'd be playing something else. I like this particular toy because it allows me to mess around with stuff as I like and that's why I still use it.


Yes, right, it's going beyond what the developers intended as far as gameplay and really more using the game's engine to play in a new way. And as this next quote states:

Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
...by reverse engineering this games' rule set, it allows for me as a player, to get a glimpse of other perspectives and learn much about how we, and why we, as people interact with the world.


Reverse engineering, yes! Because so much of the brainstorming that people do publicly here about setting up these kinds of hoods is about how to make the existing game mechanics work to simulate a new element or societal situation they wish their hood to have. Which also is pretty fun in and of itself, I think---the process of adapting the engine to the gameplay desired, whether with mods or just imagination.

I quite agree too with learning about hows and whys and about ourselves and others through the game---I think there's lots of opportunity in any hood to practice empathy for our sims in a way that makes the gaming more absorbing for us. In fact...

Quote: Originally posted by KittyCarey
...then I realised that (some of) the sims living in the town would react to that history, and try to build a different future. And I didn't disagree with them...


Right, basing play around how the sims in the created world might react to their circumstances! I think that's just one more reason to create one of these kinds of hoods that we're talking about---it allows you to better picture how someone in that situation/world might react. You get a fuller sense of what their experience might be like. It's a way to do a deep dive into the premise...and maybe figure out how to get out of it or improve it. Or not, since of course history isn't only filled with ways in which we made the right choices.

Which brings me to...

Quote: Originally posted by Enki
Drama
I think for the most part we read, write or watch TV to see how a conflict plays out? Same goes for gaming. I'm not into relationship drama (except perhaps for arranged marriages), so the controversial setups supply my dose of drama instead. Tight-knit groups facing problems that come from the outside while also competing against each other.


Enki, I particularly loved (and admired) your four-pronged answer to question 2, where Believability-Control/Power-Accomplishment/Escapism were the first three prongs. Of those four, I think our interest in Drama may be the most overlooked in explaining (especially to folks who do not start such hoods) why anyone would want this kind of hood. You're exactly right---it's another way to get drama into our play.

I would imagine that even simmers who feel uneasy at entire hoods based on premises undesired in real life would understand wanting that. Who hasn't already been interested in drama at the individual-sim scale, after all, whether tension between a teen and their parents, between two friends, or within a couple...or even just the difficulty that a stay-at-home sim parent has in dealing with their two or more toddlers? So perhaps that's helpful too in understanding how these hood premises come about---it's a way to infuse drama into the entire hood at once, with potentially all the sims in it being affected by the same problems, rather than problems being only on a sim-by-sim or household-by-household basis.

(Hm, this all makes me wonder whether maybe some simmers are more interested in drama at the interpersonal level and others are more interested in drama at the hood level. And makes me wonder if that distinction holds, whether there's any differences in those two kinds of simmers. I think I'll start a new thread about that!)

So, I mentioned above the hopeful reasons that some folks described for wanting to play these kinds of hoods. I want to thank some folks in particular for talking about that, because it will directly help me enjoy my future hoods better...

Quote: Originally posted by Aysarth
Playing a miserable hood isn't depressing if there is a sense of progression, and by achieving goals your Sims can work towards a happier future.


Quote: Originally posted by wickedjr89
I like to make stuff challenging for my Sims but in a way they can overcome the challenges to lead happier lives.


Quote: Originally posted by Enki
I admit most of the time I start my controversial setups with the intent to overcome the hardships and lead my sims to a happy ending. It just feels so much better to have reached the top of a career if it's not just to get enough money to expand the patio, but carries far-reaching consequences for the 'hood.


You all have put your finger on exactly what has been different between that past hood of mine and the ones I've started since then. I like my current hoods to the point that I don't even think of them as difficult, nor find them depressing. Even though actually, they could be seen that way, based on how hard it is for sims to pay their gigantic bills and feed themselves (no one has any food in the fridge at the start, and there aren't grocery stores or grocery delivery) and on how prevalent negative ROSs still are, just as they were in that other hood I described in my first post.

And I think this is the why: that first challenge-filled hood of mine had very little potential for things to get better for most of them---terrible stuff happened no matter what, and daily in some areas, and it just kept them oppressed and beaten down. In my current hoods, they can improve their situations through hard work and overall have some way to prepare their households to withstand tragedy if it touches them, as well as to make conditions better across the hood by working together. So perhaps the other was so depressing to me because I failed to create a story with enough change potential for me to lastingly enjoy it. Which is really useful to understand!

(And ha, money to expand the patio...yes, I think working on hoods like these means we've gone far beyond the developers' originally provided reasons to achieve in the game.)

It's been so lovely to get all your thoughts on this. I can't convey my appreciation enough.

And finally, to my disagreer on my immediately prior post: heh, you've given me the only Disagree in the whole thread. Nevertheless, I'm sticking to my right as OP to request that the thread I have started not be derailed from the purpose I intended. Thanks for at least not continuing to discuss the current events here; I certainly would not stop you and might well join you if you wish to start a separate thread about those important (but here OT) issues.

ETA: I hope anyone who still has something to say about the thread's topic will continue to feel free to comment, whether you want to add something or think I totally missed something or anything else about the topic. I still plan to read it should there be new entries.
Forum Resident
#23 Old 18th May 2017 at 7:03 AM Last edited by teafortwo : 18th May 2017 at 7:06 AM. Reason: the usual
natboopsie, thank you for starting such an interesting conversation. And, I agree with you about keeping this on topic.

I am using Widespot ( PeniiGriffith's creation) as a small, rural, insular town where newcomers are not welcome. The number of residential lots is limited to a small number. Two businesses ( Peni's small chain restaurant and a small town grocery market) are owned by outsider's. Only Widespot residents are allowed to open any new business. Business owners are expected to hire only locals. Residents are expected to shop locally. They have also agreed to sell business and residential lots only to other registered Widespot residents. Outsiders are welcome to stop for petrol, eat at Peni's and to spend simoleons in local shops or at the movie theatre or bowling alley - but - are not welcome to live here bringing new ideas and unwanted change.
Mad Poster
#24 Old 18th May 2017 at 12:17 PM
I recently reinstalled Widespot and have been wondering what to do with it. I love your idea of having it just be really clannish (which it is, inbred, really) and offputting to newcomers. How do you execute that? Sims love to meet and greet. How do you make them not welcome the newbies???

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Forum Resident
Original Poster
#25 Old 19th May 2017 at 1:25 AM
Quote: Originally posted by teafortwo
natboopsie, thank you for starting such an interesting conversation. And, I agree with you about keeping this on topic.


You are very welcome, teafortwo! I'm glad you have been enjoying it; I have too. Thanks for supporting me in staying on topic as well.

I think your hood idea is cool---and it's also cool that the premise is probably not extremely distressing for anyone, yet still challenging to do because of the nature of sims...and probably not a setup that one would prefer in real life, even though it surely happens in pockets of our real world. And now you can explore it in a game. Fascinating and glorious.

Perhaps this thread about Widespot ideas would be a better place to take the fuller discussion of specifics about how to run such a hood? I am pretty sure Peni Griffin loves to hear what others are doing with it too, so I'm sure she'd be delighted to host the discussion...

*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
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