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Eminence Grise
#26 Old 2nd Aug 2014 at 9:44 PM Last edited by Srikandi : 2nd Aug 2014 at 10:27 PM.
Specular is shininess/glossiness. It reacts with in-game lighting to make a material look semi-reflective, like metal or satin. So since this tool modifies the specular mask, it removes any glossiness the item might have had? Right now there's a bug in the CAS Recolor tool that kills specularity too, btw ... wearing a CC item created using that tool removes all glossiness from the sim (you can see this on the metal bracelet for instance). So if you're using that tool to create your package, it's hard to test this.

Just to clarify: if I understand correctly what this tool does, to use it today, you'd have to

a) use CAS Recolor to create a package
b) use S4PE to extract the specular from the package
c) convert the dds to bmp or png using Gimp or Photoshop
d) use Caster to tile a texture over the image
e) reconvert the image to DDS in Gimp or Photoshop
f) re-import the image into the package using S4PE and save it

Correct? Some of those steps could be replaced by hex editing or other tools, of course, if you know what you're doing And, I'm struggling right now to understand what the advantage is of using Caster over the tiling/pattern tools and filters in your image editor of choice directly, particularly since you can't bypass the image editor, because of the format conversion requirement. I'm probably missing something though Going to test it and see how it works

Edit: Zerbu, the current version of S4PE does not export the specular resource to DDS (just the bump and texture resources). So how are you extracting it?
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dodgy builder
#27 Old 2nd Aug 2014 at 9:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tuber101
God bless us, every one.


I can't decide if this is good or bad, good because now I can get something useful out of this game, or bad because I actually have a reason to buy the game now
Mad Poster
#28 Old 2nd Aug 2014 at 10:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
a) use CAS Recolor to create a package
b) use S4PE to extract the specular from the package
c) convert the dds to bmp or png using Gimp or Photoshop
d) use Caster to tile a texture over the image
e) reconvert the image to DDS in Gimp or Photoshop
f) re-import the image into the package using S4PE and save it


If this is true, then I can't use it. I don't know how to use these programs. While trying to figure out how to use the Caster, I couldn't see how to import or export to the game and thought it was in need of more steps. Good for the experienced, not for a novice like me.

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Eminence Grise
#29 Old 2nd Aug 2014 at 10:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by lewisb40
If this is true, then I can't use it. I don't know how to use these programs. While trying to figure out how to use the Caster, I couldn't see how to import or export to the game and thought it was in need of more steps. Good for the experienced, not for a novice like me.


Well, I may be missing something... apparently I am, because my steps can't even be applied right now, due to S4PE not currently exporting specular to dds.

In any case, longer-term, Zerbu could potentially modify his tool to incorporate features of CAS recolor and S4PE, and a DDS converter, so it could be done in a single step. The tech underlying those tools is in the public domain.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#30 Old 2nd Aug 2014 at 11:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
Specular is shininess/glossiness. It reacts with in-game lighting to make a material look semi-reflective, like metal or satin. So since this tool modifies the specular mask, it removes any glossiness the item might have had? Right now there's a bug in the CAS Recolor tool that kills specularity too, btw ... wearing a CC item created using that tool removes all glossiness from the sim (you can see this on the metal bracelet for instance). So if you're using that tool to create your package, it's hard to test this.

Just to clarify: if I understand correctly what this tool does, to use it today, you'd have to

a) use CAS Recolor to create a package
b) use S4PE to extract the specular from the package
c) convert the dds to bmp or png using Gimp or Photoshop
d) use Caster to tile a texture over the image
e) reconvert the image to DDS in Gimp or Photoshop
f) re-import the image into the package using S4PE and save it

Correct? Some of those steps could be replaced by hex editing or other tools, of course, if you know what you're doing And, I'm struggling right now to understand what the advantage is of using Caster over the tiling/pattern tools and filters in your image editor of choice directly, particularly since you can't bypass the image editor, because of the format conversion requirement. I'm probably missing something though Going to test it and see how it works

Edit: Zerbu, the current version of S4PE does not export the specular resource to DDS (just the bump and texture resources). So how are you extracting it?


I must be getting the definition wrong. I assumed that "Specular" was the correct term since, if I remember correctly, that's what the base in TS3 is called. I'm not sure if it would be inaccurate to call it a "Specular" here though, since it does act as a lighting map in Caster's case, but I'll change the term so people don't get confused about what to import.

The advantage to the program is that it isn't a basic fill tool - it actually redraws the entire image pixel-by-pixel, by tiling the patterns on an empty canvas and using the base image to determine the brightness and transparency of each pixel. Think of how worlds are generated in CAW using heightmaps. Each tile's height is determined by how light or dark each pixel in the heightmap is. Caster does a similar thing with patterns: it tiles them while using the base image to determine the brightness and transparency.
Eminence Grise
#31 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 1:01 AM
Ahh, ok. You are recoloring the main texture then... the color pixels used to provide the pattern, or in S4PE, the resource that has the same Instance as the CASP, right? The second one here:



That makes a lot more sense

In TS3, the specular map is also different from the "base", and provides shininess, just like in TS4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specularity (Disclaimer btw: We are only assuming that the fourth resource in the image above IS the specular map, since we haven't managed to do anything interesting with it yet. Somebody else here may have more information about it.) But color in TS3 mostly comes, of course, from the CaST pattern, not from any of the image layers built into the object... the exception being non-CaSTable objects or regions (like paintings, a lot of small deco items, roofs, ground paint etc).

Now that I understand which resource to use, I'll have another go at using your tool Still sounds like what it does is exactly what the "color" layer mode in Gimp/Photoshop does ("uses the hue and saturation of the upper layer and the value of the lower layer to form the resulting image", http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-concepts-layer-modes.html)... but I could be wrong about that interested to compare, anyway!

Am I right in thinking that with your tool, you will need to start with an unpatterned texture to get good results? I've been trying to do something with the Maxidress item from the demo, but that does not come in any solid colors... and since in TS4 (like in TS2 and other games) the shadows/highlights are on the same image as the pattern, I haven't found a good way to remove the pattern and preserve the folds and wrinkles.
#32 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 1:17 AM
Doesn't really work for TS2 but whatever, I don't have the TS4 demo anyway :P
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#33 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 2:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
Now that I understand which resource to use, I'll have another go at using your tool Still sounds like what it does is exactly what the "color" layer mode in Gimp/Photoshop does ("uses the hue and saturation of the upper layer and the value of the lower layer to form the resulting image", http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-concepts-layer-modes.html)... but I could be wrong about that interested to compare, anyway!

Am I right in thinking that with your tool, you will need to start with an unpatterned texture to get good results? I've been trying to do something with the Maxidress item from the demo, but that does not come in any solid colors... and since in TS4 (like in TS2 and other games) the shadows/highlights are on the same image as the pattern, I haven't found a good way to remove the pattern and preserve the folds and wrinkles.


Sorry, wasn't aware of that feature. Either way, I've finished a version of the tool that can import and export DDS files using DDSPanel from s4pi, so that will be two less steps in the process, and will be much faster than using those features in an image editing tool. I just need to test it before releasing.

The tool can't remove existing patterns, so yeah, it will need to be an unpatterned one.
Field Researcher
#34 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 2:57 AM
I'll just wait until the tools are improved and the tuts "for dummies" come out. I'm very clumsy regarding mods.

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Eminence Grise
#35 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 4:00 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Zerbu
Sorry, wasn't aware of that feature. Either way, I've finished a version of the tool that can import and export DDS files using DDSPanel from s4pi, so that will be two less steps in the process, and will be much faster than using those features in an image editing tool. I just need to test it before releasing.


Nice! Good work! That will make this tool seriously useful for non-digital artists
Field Researcher
#36 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 4:42 AM
Just something quick...
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#37 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 5:38 AM
This is Amazing, Good Job!!!! I still won't be buying the game, but it's awesome you guys are coming up with tools so fast. It actually REALLY makes EA look like douches!!!
Instructor
#38 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 6:17 AM
i hope i can download this, co'z i don't have the demo then i can't use this...

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dodgy builder
#39 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 8:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Simsdestroyer
This is Amazing, Good Job!!!! I still won't be buying the game, but it's awesome you guys are coming up with tools so fast. It actually REALLY makes EA look like douches!!!


Yes, I thought that "cast will never work" was a bit odd.
Inventor
#40 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 10:50 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Simsdestroyer
This is Amazing, Good Job!!!! I still won't be buying the game, but it's awesome you guys are coming up with tools so fast. It actually REALLY makes EA look like douches!!!

How does this make EA look like douches? If they spent time on releasing tools for custom content creation, people would be screaming that they should be working on toddlers and pools instead (and whatever else will turn out to be problematic in the game).
Scholar
#41 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 5:14 PM
Thats quite impressive to have this now already

Just a thought, but is anyone good in making pie or baking cookies? We could use those to tempt Twallan to start modding for TS4.
Mad Poster
#42 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 5:30 PM
Let Twallan have his well-deserved retirement. This is Zerbu's thread...Zerbu's moment to shine.

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Eminence Grise
#43 Old 3rd Aug 2014 at 8:20 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
Yes, I thought that "cast will never work" was a bit odd.


Hm?

CaST will never work in TS4. CaST is, crucially, an in-game feature, and for it to work, the rendering engine of the game (the part that puts pixels on the screen) would have to be replaced. CaST works by adding a step to the rendering of every object in every frame of gameplay, where the textures are composited onto objects and sims. It had a performance cost, which is probably why it was dropped.

Zerbu's tool is great and useful, but it is a CC creation tool, not a game mod. If you remember Bodyshop from TS2, this is more like an addon or plugin to Bodyshop, that makes it easier to do a particular type of texture edit with tiling patterns. It produces modified textures that can be packaged into mods with other tools.
dodgy builder
#44 Old 4th Aug 2014 at 7:21 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
Hm?

CaST will never work in TS4. CaST is, crucially, an in-game feature, and for it to work, the rendering engine of the game (the part that puts pixels on the screen) would have to be replaced. CaST works by adding a step to the rendering of every object in every frame of gameplay, where the textures are composited onto objects and sims. It had a performance cost, which is probably why it was dropped.

Zerbu's tool is great and useful, but it is a CC creation tool, not a game mod. If you remember Bodyshop from TS2, this is more like an addon or plugin to Bodyshop, that makes it easier to do a particular type of texture edit with tiling patterns. It produces modified textures that can be packaged into mods with other tools.


You know as well as me that what limits creativity is it's cost. I just don't believe it's impossible, it's just a matter of finding the right solution. When they say it can't be done I read it as "I don't want this discussion". They have decided not to use money on the feature, and that is of cause their right, but I don't believe it's impossible. I can believe it's impossible to stretch your hand to get to the moon, but this is technology, we make it and we brake it.
Eminence Grise
#45 Old 4th Aug 2014 at 7:32 AM Last edited by Srikandi : 4th Aug 2014 at 7:47 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
You know as well as me that what limits creativity is it's cost. I just don't believe it's impossible, it's just a matter of finding the right solution. When they say it can't be done I read it as "I don't want this discussion". They have decided not to use money on the feature, and that is of cause their right, but I don't believe it's impossible. I can believe it's impossible to stretch your hand to get to the moon, but this is technology, we make it and we brake it.


Sims modding has done some pretty amazing things, and some things that nobody thought would be possible in the first few weeks after release. But not at the level of altering the game engine The same applies to every other game (I've been in a lot of modding communites). There are some things you can't change with a mod. Or if you did, you would no longer call it a mod; you'd call it a remake of the game on a different engine (which people DO occasionally do; witness for instance the remake of Morrowind on the Skyrim engine).

It's like remodeling the second floor of a house vs. replacing the foundation. Rip out the foundation, the house crumbles; you can rebuild it roughly the same, but you're no longer remodeling it, you're replacing it.

In other words, it might be possible to take the TS3 engine (the only game in existence whose engine supports CaST), and with a series of far reaching core mods and scripting mods, create something that would vaguely resemble TS4. It would still be missing features supported by the TS4 engine but not by the TS3 engine (maybe the routing and multitasking, for instance). That would not be a TS4 mod though. And, although in the wider gaming world, mod projects involving remaking an old game on a new engine are started all the time (they very rarely come to completion, and they frequently are stalled by legal obstacles since any such project involves wholesale theft of intellectual property from the original developers)... I have never seen a project involving remaking a new game on an old engine.

You could also, I guess... program a new game engine from scratch, involving a new version of CaST or something similar... and program the whole game on top of that That is also not a mod, though; it's a new game.

It's not just EA saying that you couldn't mod in or patch in CaST, btw. Any modder who understands how CaST works will tell you the same thing.
dodgy builder
#46 Old 4th Aug 2014 at 7:48 AM
I'm talking about EA, not some modder They decided not to make cast, it was too expensive. There is no limit to what creative people can do in my mind, if they have the money for it. A modder is just a part time person trying their best on fixing someone else's mistakes. Not quite the same thing.
Mad Poster
#47 Old 5th Aug 2014 at 6:43 AM
Now all we need is a men's outfit that includes a Spongebob shirt, a tutu, heart print boxers and fishnet stockings.
Test Subject
#48 Old 6th Aug 2014 at 7:59 PM
Wow, this is amazing!!
Test Subject
#49 Old 9th Aug 2014 at 10:43 AM
Hiya!

Thanks for sharing all of your experiences.I am already in love with this tool ^^ Keep going

Just one question (for dummies ^^) if i try to create a new clothing look, i awalys end up with an default version. is it possible already possible to create a non default version of my creation and than how?!

Hope someone can help me out.
Field Researcher
#50 Old 9th Aug 2014 at 2:49 PM
TS4 still uses multipliers to denote pre-baked lighting/ambient occlusion, right? If so, is the colour on patterns pre-made, or are the patterns generated as metadata or instructions on what colours to use, albeit with players being unable to edit it ingame?
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