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Old 7th Feb 2005, 4:25 PM Textures in Milkshape #1
ModernChemistry
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Ok, you know how you can put textures on the meshes in milkshape? Can I just put the textures on the mesh and be done? It would be so much easier. I mean how can i make a texture pic with this thing? It, has curtains, just loook at it! But here is a simple way to aply textures, why not use it? So how and if can I do this? Should I delete the texture files? Well, I'm not touching anything till I get an answer.
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Old 7th Feb 2005, 4:30 PM #2
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Try selecting the curtains, and then going into Window -> Texture Coordinate Editor, and using that to give them better UV mappings.

A foggy morning greets me quietly today
I smell a fragrance in the wind blowing my way
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Old 7th Feb 2005, 4:32 PM #3
ModernChemistry
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Ok, so I can do that than instead of making a whole new texture image? Btw, thanks for your speedy replie!
Old 7th Feb 2005, 4:35 PM #4
JWoods
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Hi External, I am no expert by any means but you may want to try using UVMapper...
http://www.uvmapper.com/
UVMapper will produce a texture map that you can take into a paint program and color or texture. There are easy tutorials on the site to assist you as well. Just remember when saving your Bitmap texture image, save it in 24 bit color (convert in paint to RGB color first). I Hope this helps you out…
Old 7th Feb 2005, 4:40 PM #5
ModernChemistry
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Thank you! I'll try that. To be honest, I had no idea what people were talking about when they said Uv mapper. I'm som happy you gave me this link!
Old 7th Feb 2005, 8:21 PM #6
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Because The Sims 2 textures exist in two seperate files apart from the mesh, I wouldn't expect to see direct import of the textures from MilkShape into the final package automatically, at least not real soon now. The UV coordinates are the way the program matches points in the mesh with points on your texture map.
You can do some UV mapping directly from MilkShape (using the Texture Coordinate Editor). You can load a blank graphic in your desired size (512x512 or 256x256 are common values), map the UV points for your object, then right-click on the Texture Coordinate Editor and take a screenshot, which will show the vertice points on your graphic. Take the screenshot graphic into Photo Shop or Paint Shop Pro or whatever and you can see where to color to to match your shape edges (or you can create a mask from the UV map).
<* Wes *>

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Old 7th Feb 2005, 8:44 PM #7
JWoods
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I hope that helps External…  Ok, I see we have Wes' attention so within subject I have a question (I think you can answer)... regardless of how I choose to map and create my texture I cant seem to get it on the object in game... I have created a simple test object (cube) to test texturing it. I have the object in game and even have a matching shadow but, for some reason the object is still blue in game. I am pleased that I could at least get the object in the game but blue? LOL... I am off to do some reading and again redo my test... I appreciate any input... thank you...
Old 7th Feb 2005, 10:07 PM #8
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Can I ask a stupid question? Another one, what is UV mapping?
Old 8th Feb 2005, 3:20 AM #9
WesHowe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWoods
I hope that helps External…  Ok, I see we have Wes' attention so within subject I have a question (I think you can answer)... regardless of how I choose to map and create my texture I cant seem to get it on the object in game... I have created a simple test object (cube) to test texturing it. I have the object in game and even have a matching shadow but, for some reason the object is still blue in game. I am pleased that I could at least get the object in the game but blue? LOL... I am off to do some reading and again redo my test... I appreciate any input... thank you...

A cube today, and in a few weeks, body meshes. :-)

Blue means it can't find the _TXMT or _TXTR files, almost always due to: A) The names are mismatched somewhere or B) The name was changed and you missed "Fix TGI' followed by Commit and save.

The naming chain for texture colors starts in the SHPE file, on the right hand side of the colon for each model name in the mesh (in the 'parts' tab). That MUST be the name of the Material Definition (TXMT) file (minus the _txmt suffix).
Inside the Material Definition file is a field called "StdMatBaseTextureName", this is where you put the name (minus the _txtr suffix) of the Texture Image that will be looked for.
<* Wes *>

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Last edited by wes_h : 8th Feb 2005 at 3:38 AM. Reason: poor spelling
Old 8th Feb 2005, 3:34 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalxLove26
Can I ask a stupid question? Another one, what is UV mapping?


I'm looking for the stupid part, and don't see it.

3D imaging software uses a pair of fractional values to represent how far from the top and left of the image each point, or Vertex, would fall at. Each triangle, of course, has three vertices, one at each corner.
The software computes a value that, if you could cut the texture out of paper and wrap it around the shape and make marks where each point would lay at, but represented as the fractional part of the distance from one edge to the other, so it can scale to whatever particular image size is going to be used.
These two values are labelled 'U' and 'V', and are numbers ranging between 0.0 (at one edge) and 1.0 (the other edge). If you get a UV map generated for your mesh, you can then draw a graphic image that will line up all the parts of your mesh with the colors it is supposed to have on it, without having to do this by trial and error.
If you ever looked at very many of the texture images in a lot of the TS2 objects, you would see an advanced form of this, where more than one part is mapped to different sections of the same texture image. The most recognizable example might be looking at the body meshes in BodyShop, and look at the face ones, and see that the teeth are stuck over in a corner. UV mapping makes it possible for the graphic rendering engine in the game to know that the stuff in that corner goes on the teeth and gums, even though it looks nowhere close to the right location.
<* Wes *>

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Last edited by wes_h : 8th Feb 2005 at 3:40 AM.
Old 8th Feb 2005, 4:15 AM #11
ModernChemistry
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Thank you so0o much Wes! You are so nice!
Old 8th Feb 2005, 3:12 PM #12
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Here I've attached a picture showing what the UVmap looks like, used as a layer over the actual texture. It makes it easy to see where the parts should be drawn and coloured.

It basically shows you where each triangle of your mesh will get it's texture from.

Also attached is a picture of the finished object for comparison.
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Old 8th Feb 2005, 4:06 PM #13
JWoods
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Thank you Wes for opening my eyes to the fact that a simple overlook of one step can cause the texture image not to be pointed at. I went back and looked through the tutorial I used and it seemed that I very well may have renamed the wrong texture file as that part was a bit confusing (or I was tired LOL). Again thanks for lifting my eyelids Wes…

A point I find impressive in UVMapper and mapping in general is the ability to resize and manipulate the size of each part of the map. I read an in depth article about texture mapping a body mesh and it indicated that the head portion of the mapping for example could be resized and moved wherever you like on the map like, I believe, Wes indicated this with his comment on the teeth in a body mesh.

I also find that, (for External ), the more times I go back through all the steps in the tutorials it gets easier due to memorizing the steps. There is a lot to cover for first time object makers and reading posts, tutorials, and doing and redoing embeds knowledge we sometimes think at first is beyond our learning scope. I wanted to mention this as encouragement to the newbie’s who most likely find all this to be intimidating.

Thanks for the help and encouragement, its nice to be part of a community where knowledge is so freely shared…
Old 8th Feb 2005, 6:12 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWoods
I went back and looked through the tutorial I used and it seemed that I very well may have renamed the wrong texture file as that part was a bit confusing (or I was tired LOL).


It is confusing.. doubly so when you are tired.
I am up to my ears in stuff to do, but I have been needling a few other people privately to provide us with a tool that will help with the names situation.
I see no reason a program couldn't be made that would take an object package file, take a base name from a user, say, "bathtub1-jwoods" and rename ALL the internal filenames (adding _cres, _shpe, etc. where needed), adjust the references, check and fix the TGIs and add all the hashes and thus pronounce your object is "game-ready". If something follows a definitive pattern of rules, a program could do it better, faster, and wouldn't forget a step.
It IS too hard as it is now. It takes me on the order of an hour to make all these changes, and I frequently get it into the game and find that I left ONE LITTLE THING undone myself (that's how I knew what was likely wrong, been there, done that, and wore a hole in the T-Shirt already).
<* Wes *>

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Old 8th Feb 2005, 11:36 PM #15
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Wow, thanks everyone! I have another question about uv mapping. When I'm rearanging parts of the model (I'm using the UV mapper pro) does it matter how I size it? Also, what do I do with the map when I'm done? Does it needed to be imported in some file, cuz other wise when I put a texture on it will look wierd. Right?
Old 9th Feb 2005, 1:50 AM #16
JWoods
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Wes:

I have to agree with the theory of the program internally producing names and taking the majority of confusing steps out would be ideal. On the other hand, I would imagine that the folks working on the program and plug-ins are heading towards this. It’s just a guess in my part of course but considering each new release it makes sense. I can see, by reading here, that all of you have been doing extensive research and probing into the game, therefore it’s a learning process at a higher level. I remember many years ago, programming little 2D games on my Apple IIGS… My first main concern was to accomplish what I wanted the program to do. Then I made it user friendly and polished it off with graphics and sound… I would guess SimPE is heading that way eventually.

What I like about SimPE and the way it is being released is that it gives guys like me the tasks of manually executing operations the final edition may do for the user. I agree that it can be frustrating, very frustrating when you miss one little commit click but, it forces me to go back and reread again. We all know where reading can take us…

I have followed a lot of technical posts of yours and the other “Leaders” here, as I see it.
I think the extra steps are useless for you, but, I need them...LOL I realize my absence from computers for over 10 years has greatly exaggerated the learning curves that once may have been easier. I just keep reading and dabbling in every aspect of the programs and game I can.

I enjoy this forum because folks like your self are humble as well as helpful.
Thank you again…

External:

I did some brief reading on the site, in the tutorials section… As far as I understand you can move and resize the parts on the UV map. After you save it as a BMP you will need to import the texture with Simpe. The next part is where I went wrong… Pointing to the texture… All I can say is follow the tutorial slowly and do not miss a step like I no doubt did!!!

I may retry my efforts tonight or tomorrow and will report back here with any information if I have any…

Good luck with your textures!!! Wes… Thanks man…
Old 9th Feb 2005, 3:29 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWoods
I remember many years ago, programming little 2D games on my Apple IIGS… My first main concern was to accomplish what I wanted the program to do. Then I made it user friendly and polished it off with graphics and sound… I would guess SimPE is heading that way eventually.


Once a hacker at heart, always a hacker at heart. (I go back to before the Apple ][ myself, originally handcoding programs in hex for a small 6800-based computer with 256 bytes of RAM).
Tools like SimPE and HexEdit will probably always be available to hack into stuff. On the other hand, there is a whole community of talented people that don't have, and don't want to have, the foggiest idea about what a hash is for, what it looks like and how to make one.
And while these people will never break new ground on leading edge technical accomplishmants, they will produce astounding and original creations with the tools they are provided with.
Some people call them 'artists'. I have never failed to be amazed at seeing someone with real art talent make a simple pencil sketch look so alive, with just a few lines. Perhaps because I lack strong talent in that area myself.
At any rate, I didn't necessarily say I was lobbying Quaxi for these changes, although he hasn't been spared my needling in the past. I think we are starting to move from tools that teach us new things to easy-to-use tools for the less technically inclined users. And while I am doing what I can to move things along, we need a whole community of people working at this, because there ain't enough hours for one person to do it all.
<* Wes *>

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Old 10th Feb 2005, 2:02 PM #18
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I just wanted to let you know that in the latest SimPE, the renaming is already done. It's part of the Fix Integrety plugin.

You can do it either while exporting, or later.
Old 10th Feb 2005, 6:30 PM #19
ModernChemistry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Pixel
Here I've attached a picture showing what the UVmap looks like, used as a layer over the actual texture. It makes it easy to see where the parts should be drawn and coloured.

It basically shows you where each triangle of your mesh will get it's texture from.

Also attached is a picture of the finished object for comparison.


I pasted the txtr map(which is a bmp image)over the original texture but the when it was in the game the texture was the map. My question is, how do I let the txtr get the message, that their is a new map and where I put stuff is where it's supossed to be? You know what I mean??? I can see that Dr. Pixel did it. Please help because I want to get the Hello Kitty boombox and tv in their too!
Old 10th Feb 2005, 7:35 PM #20
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External, I am stuck with the very same problem...I would guess the object is not pointing at the correct texture (texture name). I realize that my problem is the same and will wait for more input as to how I can resolve this issue.

I have been drifting off with another project but yet... Same problem... LOL I spend to much time building houses, making walls and floors and, cloths that I ended up forgetting where this thread was! LOL

I also noticed last night that the fix integrity tool was moved in the latest release of SimPE and as mentioned by Dr. Pixel seems to rename everything.

Wes; I think we are showing some age here... Before Apple? LOL. 
The very first Apple was named "Lisa", Ironic' that’s my wife’s name…

Back to topic... I am wondering why if you or anyone knows why some objects do not have an "import LIFO" option? (It’s grayed out) Can you just import new texture instead of a LIFO?

Another note… with the integrity fixing the package automatically I notice it is still pointing to the original objects textures… I also notice that changes like this (integrity fix) are not implemented in the mesh tool tutorial. It can be confusing to know which steps to skip or not skip for some.

Well back to work I got to get these textures to show up on these objects! LOL
Old 11th Feb 2005, 1:00 AM #21
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My apologies, I wasn't very clear.

When you re-do the texture mapping in your mapping program, you then save it as an .obj file when you are finished. The texture map is automatically integrated in the .obj file. It is imported with the rest of your mesh.

The UVmap image is simply a convienience for you to use when making your texture image.

I work with it as a layer over the top of my image, to see where things should go. Then, I remove it before saving the texture itself.
You don't need it for anything else. You don't want it actually showing on your texture.

After importing your mesh, then just follow the steps for importing the new texture.

Basically, you go to Texture Image (bottom line on the FileTypes list)

There will be two (or more, depending on the original object) Texture Images listed to the right.

Go to the Plugin View tab at the bottom, and click on each to see what it is.

One will be the shadow information - just a tiny black and white image - leave that alone

The other will be the texture for the object.

Click on the largest size (bottom of the list)
It may have a size listed, or it may say LIFO or something like that - either way, click on it.

Then click the Import button, and open your new texture. It should look like the pic attached now.

Right click on the picture, choose "update all sizes"

Then click "commit"

That's it, save your .package file

Once you have done this, the Large Image File section is now redundant, and can actually be deleted from the .package.

That's why you see some that don't have it.
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Last edited by Dr Pixel : 11th Feb 2005 at 1:05 AM.
Old 11th Feb 2005, 1:52 AM #22
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So, I downloaded the UVMapper Pro Demo, but it says I have to buy to save the Object and UVs. How did y'all get it to work?
Old 11th Feb 2005, 2:09 AM #23
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same here, just download the regular version that one you don't have to register.
Old 11th Feb 2005, 2:18 AM #24
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You can also get the older, freeware, version of LithunWrap here:
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198

I like it because it has a 3d preview window - makes it easier to get the mapping right.
Old 11th Feb 2005, 2:26 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Pixel
You can also get the older, freeware, version of LithunWrap here:
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198

I like it because it has a 3d preview window - makes it easier to get the mapping right.


OOO that looks interesting... Thank's...


Reading is the key to all knowledge, math is the key to everything.
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