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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 11:39 PM DefaultMorphstate Problem - solved #1
-Mallow-
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So I would be starting my new mesh. What I planned is to edit some shirt and shorts of a kid (make longer shirt and etc) but then I would like to attach also (example) a bow on the shirt, ( a bow which I would create myself, and some chains) I would fix the uvmap and the meshes rig, and then create completely new morphstates for this clothing. But is this even possible? - To create a new working morphs for clothing, and To attach new parts on sims 3 meshes? I have a hunch that it is but I may be completely wrong.

(I would still be using CTU and Cmars morphmaker)
Last edited by -Mallow- : 30th Dec 2010 at 10:18 AM.
Old 22nd Dec 2010, 11:47 PM #2
Nysha
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Yes, that's perfectly possible. Remember to use the autonum plugin to make your morphs work, try the "addinga pregnant morph" tutorial for the basic process.

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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 2:33 AM #3
BloomsBase
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It is even possible to do this with existing mesh and morphs.
You prolly are going to use a base mesh anyway?

The key is to use a outfit that has 2 meshgroups, all genders have atleast one.
On most of those outfits the 2nd meshgroup only contains a few fingers.

You need to import all meshes and morphs for the 1st meshgroup and you import only the basemesh(fingers) for the 2nd meshgroup
You hide all morphs and add your custom parts to the fingers mesh(only regroup your parts with that mesh)

You can make it fit the basemesh of the 1st meshgroup, you even can delete parts of that 1st mesh as long as you also delete them on the morphs(they must stay identical)

When your satisfied your duplicate it 4 times and attache each duplicate to a morph.(NOT regrouping but you make it fit the morph)
When done you have 10 meshgroups, 5 original ones(maybe with some faces/vertices moved or deleted) and 5 wich contains the fingers and your custom parts.

You delete the 5 custom meshes, use the autonumtool on the originals and export.(write down the followup number)
Use your undo key(ctrl z?) to bring back your custom meshes and now you delete the 5 originals.
Use autonumtool again and use the followupnumber to start the numbering
Then export.

Its works alot quicker then making 4 brand new morphs
However....the medium and lower detail meshes are a bit harder as they are really messed up....
Old 26th Dec 2010, 4:43 PM #4
-Mallow-
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I have attached a Bow mesh on a kid's top which shape I edited as well. I also created completely new morph state. The bow looks all fine on the base and on the fat State but when I try out in the game the bow doesn't work well.
I did use Autonum tool on the mesh too with 5000 value.
Maybe because I changed the position of the bow when editing the mesh into Fat state? (I moved it little bit lover since the Fat state's head was covering the bow too much) I ran out of idea's what could cause this. Does someone know?
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 5:11 PM #5
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You did create new Bgeo files?
If so, did you also load the fit/thin and pregnant morphs(not 100% sure if this is needed tho) when making the new Bgeo's?
Altho those morphs are not slider enabled they might need to be included when making new Bgeo files.(Cmar can tell you that)
Those morphs can be duplicates of the base mesh, no need to edit them.

Editing/updating the fatmorph is possible but requiers updating the Bgeo's before changes get applied.
Old 26th Dec 2010, 5:41 PM #6
-Mallow-
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Yes, I created new Bgeo file with Cmar's Morphmaker. But only for LOD1 and only fat morph since children don't have fit or thin morphstates - or do I still have to include somekind of fit and thin Bgeos?
I was only testing the mesh's LOD1 which I edited and the morphstate for that, I didn't include any other LODs to this package. Could it cause problems if there are no more LODs than one, even if this is just a test?
Old 26th Dec 2010, 9:30 PM #7
BloomsBase
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Unfortunate it does....
When making new Bgeo files you need to include all 3 lods(take the basegame lod2 and 3(meshes and morphs)
Old 26th Dec 2010, 9:59 PM #8
CmarNYC
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For kids all you need is the fat morph - the others can link back to the original mesh's morphs, which are empty. CTU will automatically link back to the game morphs when it makes a new package, but I don't know how TSRW handles this. For TSRW you might have to make morph meshes which are just duplicates of the base mesh, as Bloom said.

As far as I know you CAN make a morph for only lod1, but then lod2 and lod3 will have no morph. This might be pretty noticeable, depending on the user's graphics settings. Again, lod1-only should work (although it's not good practice) for a CTU package but I don't know how TSRW would handle it.
Old 27th Dec 2010, 1:31 AM #9
BloomsBase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CmarNYC
For kids all you need is the fat morph - the others can link back to the original mesh's morphs, which are empty. CTU will automatically link back to the game morphs when it makes a new package, but I don't know how TSRW handles this. For TSRW you might have to make morph meshes which are just duplicates of the base mesh, as Bloom said.

As far as I know you CAN make a morph for only lod1, but then lod2 and lod3 will have no morph. This might be pretty noticeable, depending on the user's graphics settings. Again, lod1-only should work (although it's not good practice) for a CTU package but I don't know how TSRW would handle it.


yes, but you always should include all the morphdata(empty or not) for all 3 lods when creating the Bgeo file, or am i wrong?


Tsrw will auto copy the basemesh when the morphs are not in the meshfile.
Old 27th Dec 2010, 1:54 AM #10
-Mallow-
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I am using CTU just to point out again.

But I don't have a clue why the mesh wont work properly.
*I recreated the FAT morphstate to see that maybe the first morphstate was somehow bad.
*Then I copied the morph comments to this LOD1 fatmorph, used Autonum tool with the value 5000.
*Did the same for LOD2 and 3.
*Exported all these Geoms.
*Used CTU to add all the new lods, saved this package.
*Then I created the Fat Bgeo files with Morphmaker and added them to the package I saved.
*lastly I tested in the game but no, the bow keeps getting weird.

But what is more strange is that when I tested LOD2 mesh only on the slot of LOD1 making Bgeo only for that lod and tested it in CAS then it did work. So what on earth could be the reason that LOD1 wont work, since what I did for LOD2's mesh was exactly the same proces as for LOD1... Perhaps this mesh was doomed from the start after all.
Old 27th Dec 2010, 1:47 PM #11
CmarNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomsBase
yes, but you always should include all the morphdata(empty or not) for all 3 lods when creating the Bgeo file, or am i wrong?


Tsrw will auto copy the basemesh when the morphs are not in the meshfile.


If one or more of the lods is missing, MorphMaker will just make a BGEO with empty data for the missing lods. I've never actually tested the effect in-game, but it should work. Empty lods are handled by the BGEO structure - clothing has no lod0 and most of the facial morphs don't have data for lod3. (It's the same basic BGEO for both.)

Sounds like TSRW does pretty much the same thing.
Old 27th Dec 2010, 2:14 PM #12
CmarNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Mallow-
I am using CTU just to point out again.

But I don't have a clue why the mesh wont work properly.
*I recreated the FAT morphstate to see that maybe the first morphstate was somehow bad.
*Then I copied the morph comments to this LOD1 fatmorph, used Autonum tool with the value 5000.
*Did the same for LOD2 and 3.
*Exported all these Geoms.
*Used CTU to add all the new lods, saved this package.
*Then I created the Fat Bgeo files with Morphmaker and added them to the package I saved.
*lastly I tested in the game but no, the bow keeps getting weird.

But what is more strange is that when I tested LOD2 mesh only on the slot of LOD1 making Bgeo only for that lod and tested it in CAS then it did work. So what on earth could be the reason that LOD1 wont work, since what I did for LOD2's mesh was exactly the same proces as for LOD1... Perhaps this mesh was doomed from the start after all.


It sounds like you did everything right. Could you upload your clothing package and your morph meshes so I can look at them? Or pm me with a link if you don't want to upload here.
Old 27th Dec 2010, 6:04 PM #13
-Mallow-
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I'm fine with uploding. I included all the MS files with base meshes and morphstates, and also the sims3package file to which I already added Bgeo file. Maybe you can find out what's the problem, thank you
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File Type: rar BowShirt.rar (2.36 MB, 11 downloads) - View custom content
Old 27th Dec 2010, 8:04 PM #14
CmarNYC
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I get the same distortion that you do - ONLY affecting the bow, and according to what you say only affecting your lod1 mesh, all of which makes me think it may be a vertex numbering problem in the lod1 mesh although I don't see how it looks perfect in Milkshape but doesn't work right in the game. So far I've examined the BGEO and the meshes and renumbered everything, made a new BGEO, and rebuilt the package - no difference. I'll keep looking.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 12:00 AM #15
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The mesh has a huge vertice count compared to the poly count)
Those normally are identical vertices and shouldn't give problems(in theory)but on your mesh they are causing texture continuities.
I tried to clean things up a bit but somehow the identical verts on the seams are now diffrent(position)
Meaning you have to resnap all those verticepairs on the sides and sleeves.
Also the normals are a bit diffrent.
The mesh is clean now with 8498faces/5665vertices instead of the 8498/8792.
File size went down from 1,66 MB to 426 kB.....so there was alot carbage in it lol
Only 8 identical verticepairs were welded but removed arround 1200/1300 texture continuities.
If i have time ill try to finish it and make a new morph so i can test it.
The test.rar is wat i have done sofar.
The lod2 is also way to big for a GEOM file...
Not sure if the mesh can be fixed tho as i also noticed that the vertice numbers increased(compared to your upload) when using the autonumtool
Last edited by BloomsBase : 28th Dec 2010 at 8:41 AM.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 12:47 AM #16
-Mallow-
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I see. Actucally I did some tests alot today and I came to realise that it was 3ds that made the bow react like that because when I modified the morph in MS only it worked fine. So I don't know why but whole 3ds broke the mesh for some reason.

Would you take look at this other file to see if this version is better or as bad as the last one? - this time I did not use 3ds for this lod1. (and seems to work in game all fine.) I'd really appreciate the help, I just wish to learn how to make good work instead of making crap that would eventually crash the whole sims.

And if it's as bad too then what could I be doing wrong that it gets so huge file and otherwise bad?
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Last edited by -Mallow- : 28th Dec 2010 at 2:11 AM.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 1:46 AM #17
CmarNYC
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I was wondering about duplicate vertex IDs a little myself, but don't really know much about them since I'm not an expert mesher like Bloom. What I do know is that the BGEOs contain only one set of coordinate incremental data (how the vertex should be moved) for each vertex ID. If there's more than one vertex with the same ID it uses data from the last one in the mesh file, so MorphMaker does the same thing. I assume normally all vertices with the same ID should have almost identical data, but maybe not in this case.

Just to add to the weirdness, I made a test 'fat morph' using your corrected mesh, Bloom, by moving only the bow. I made a new BGEO and updated the package with it and your base mesh. In CAS the bow moves the way I did it in Milkshape. (There's some distortion at the neck because I didn't completely separate the bow from the neck. Like I said, I'm not a great mesher.) But, now there's spikes in her hands which aren't affected by the fat morph. Very strange!
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Old 28th Dec 2010, 2:03 AM #18
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Was afraid of that....if things go wrong its very hard to fix them....
I used MS model cleaner but its prolly causing more errors.(losing boneassignements and such. )

And to be honest, i am no mesher at all....i wish i was.
Like most others i fool arround with stuff that is already there.

Mallow, did you only add the bow to the outfit or is the chain and buttons also yours?(is it a sims outfit you used as base?)
The 2nd file you uploaded is even bigger polycount
I never add custom parts to excisting, had so many problems in the past.
Im using a fullbodyoutfit with 2 meshgroups and load my cc in one meshgroup.

edit,
ill give it a quick try with TSRW
Old 28th Dec 2010, 2:16 AM #19
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uh, on wat outfit is it based?
EP outfit?

edit,
Cant open it with TSRW
So i cant extract the mesh(CTU and TSRW use a diffrent boneorder so you cant mix em.)
Last edited by BloomsBase : 28th Dec 2010 at 2:35 AM.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 2:20 AM #20
-Mallow-
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yes, the bow, buttons, and the chains are all meshes I created in 3ds, I'm a mesher but not so bright when it comes to tecnical stuff lol

What causes the file to get so big? Altough is it really bad thing if it has really big polycount? since I at least got the mesh work in the sims, or will it eventually crash the game?

The shirt is the only mesh that is originally EA's mesh. It's a store mesh, bought it for my own personal use, since I'm not planning to share this anyway.
Last edited by -Mallow- : 30th Dec 2010 at 10:19 AM.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 2:52 AM #21
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somehow you ended up with huge ammount of vertices.
Could be due mirroring parts wich are already uvmapped, using a external uvmapper, alot of things can cause this....

But i just made a new package without the morphs and the mesh looks ok in CAS sofar.
Just give me 30 minutes to try the morphing.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 3:04 AM #22
CmarNYC
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I tried your new package, Mallow, and the fat morph works fine in CAS.
Old 28th Dec 2010, 4:27 AM #23
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i am running out of time......
Made a new basegame package based on the cfTopShirtTee
Loaded a correct fixed basemesh but still need to make the Bgeo's
included are the package/the lod1 and the fatmorph(morph might need some finetuning...)
Has a custom blanc normalmap and thumb
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Old 28th Dec 2010, 12:35 PM #24
-Mallow-
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So how did you actucally fix this mesh? Because I do want to carry on with the sims meshing so it would be great to know how to correct my own mistakes so I wont be constanly bothering you guys
Old 28th Dec 2010, 6:16 PM #25
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I used Milkshapes Model cleaner but its a bit riski.
the first time i used it on your mesh it welded some vertices and messed things up.
It welded a few verts that shouldn't be welded so i scaled the mesh 1000times bigger and used it again wich gave me a better result.
unfortunate scaling can cause seperation of each individual meshpart wich happened(the identical vertices on the seams no longer shared the same postion, hardly noticible but causing a increase of the vertice numbering when i used autonumtool)
so i scaled the mesh again bigger and welded the seams(another thing you normally dont do....)

It also messed up the finger bones, had to attache new hands.
The tool is the last thing you want to use, really...

For future projects i recommend to use a 2group outfit
In one you load the base mesh wich you can edit by moving verts/deleting faces, just dont add anything
Make the exact same edits to the 4 morphs
This allows you to use the existing morphs(wich is a must for me, h8 to recreate them(4 times for each lod...... )

meshgroup2 contains in most cases only a few fingers
In that meshgroup i load my custom parts(i only use the basemesh with the fingers)
I regroup my custom content with the fingers and duplicate it 4 times, those duplicates ill fit on the morphs of meshgroup1

So when working on both i have 10 meshgroups in Milkshape


I still dont know exactly wat it is that screwed up the mesh, i am noob here.
But if you make custom parts, make them as obj file
mirror/duplicate/etc etc till your satisfied, then seperate(regroup) the parts you want individually mapped on the uvmap.
Last thing is the mapping itself
then regroup all back into one.

duplicating meshparts that already are uvmapped is asking for trouble, especially if your adding them(regrouping them) to a simGEOM at the same time.
Only do this as a obj file till your satisfied then export it as a onegroup obj file.
Then start with the GEOM and attache it to it.

srry for my crappy english, hard to explain it all
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