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Old 18th Feb 2019, 8:31 AM DefaultArgon's Instrument Hack and Tipping Fix #1
Charity
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I'm trying to sort out a couple of hack conflicts and this one has me baffled.

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s...ic,12644.0.html

This is Argon's Instrument hack and down the bottom there is a modified version of Pescado's tippingfix that is supposed to work with it. But HCDU still throws up this clash.

*** POSSIBLE CONFLICT DETECTED ***
File Type: BHAV
Procedure Name: Tip Jar - Pick Up
Group ID: 0x7F449F3B
Instance ID: 0x0000201D
Packages Containing This Procedure:
\downloads\Hacked Objects Finished\Musical Instruments\argon_instrument hack-al.package
\downloads\Hacked Objects Finished\Musical Instruments\tippingfix.package

And if I open tippingfix to see what's clashing there are several BHAV lines that point to an unknown BHAV. I checked Pescado's original version and they're still there. So does the tipping fix even work with unknown BHAVs in it? And if the version I have is supposed to work with Argon's hack then why am I getting a conflict?

I am not BHAV savvy enough to understand it and I hoped that someone else might be able to explain it.
Old 18th Feb 2019, 12:30 PM #2
Sunrader
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I stumble through BHAVs, too, and this one is one I've never figured out, so I'll be watching this with interest.

Looking at another mod, recently, it seemed to me like maybe "unknown" just meant the creator hadn't bothered to create a label for it? The opcode seemed to still work. Is that possible?
Old 18th Feb 2019, 4:09 PM #3
iCad
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I don't understand BHAVs at all, so I can't help with that. I just wanted to say that just because one mod will work with another doesn't mean that they don't conflict. Usually, they do conflict; it's just a matter of load order making them happy together, even though the one that loads last will override part of the functioning of the one that loads first. Usually, it's a deliberately-constructed conflict. In your case Pescado's mod is loading after Argon's, since they're in the same subfolders and Pescado's comes alphabetically after Argon's, so if that's the proper load order for this conflict, then they should be working. If it's not, rename one or the other to make Pes's load first.

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Old 18th Feb 2019, 5:26 PM #4
Radium
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Yes, the conflict is likely intentional and meant to be resolved by loading tippingfix after the instrument hack. As for the unknown BHAVs, those are BHAVs that come from some other mod - in this case, they're from argon's instrument fix. SimPE by default only loads the BHAVs from the game's object packages and the current package, not your entire downloads folder, so it sees custom BHAVs as "unknown". Luckily the game does load your entire downloads folder, so it doesn't have a problem with unknown BHAVs unless you're missing the mod that actually has the BHAV, but if you want certain BHAVs to be recognized by SimPE you can use this tutorial.

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Old 18th Feb 2019, 6:08 PM #5
purplestuddedcoffin
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Tbf with HDCU you need to remove random things before getting to the root of the problem.
Old 18th Feb 2019, 9:08 PM #6
iCad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplestuddedcoffin
Tbf with HDCU you need to remove random things before getting to the root of the problem.


No, that's not really the case. The HCDU will report all instances of two mods affecting the same code resources. (BHAVs, BCONs, etc.) The problem, though, is that a conflict may or may not be an issue. Sometimes, mods are designed to conflict with one another. For instance, Inteen has "Flavor Paks," and each of the flavor packs override/change the "native" Inteen code in some way, deliberately, which is why they have to load after Inteen. They will still show as conflicting, though. It's the same as Charity's example here.

So, not all conflicts are bad. Some of them are good, allowing various similar mods to work together properly as the creator intended. So, the trick is knowing which are good conflicts, which don't cause game issues, which are "neutral" -- meaning that they conflict but the conflict can be resolved as you want with load order changes -- and which are bad ones, which are fatal, irreconcilable conflicts that cause game issues that can't be fixed by changing load order. Ultimately, the only way to tell the difference between good, neutral, and bad is reading up on the mods you have vs. the ones you want to add and, beyond that, systematic testing. I've done TONS of the latter in my time.

At present, I have about 950 mods in my game, and my HCDU report is about 110 items long. But they are all good/neutral conflicts, which work together to make my game work as I want it to work. Conflicts themselves aren't all or necessarily "bad;" it's whether or not they can be resolved to one's satisfaction, even if you lose some functionality in partially overridden mods, that's the issue.

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Old 19th Feb 2019, 5:35 AM #7
Charity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCad
In your case Pescado's mod is loading after Argon's, since they're in the same subfolders and Pescado's comes alphabetically after Argon's, so if that's the proper load order for this conflict, then they should be working. If it's not, rename one or the other to make Pes's load first.


They never suggested load order, so I'm going to presume that's the right order, because they didn't change the name (and I'm not brave enough to ask a question at MATY on an old thread).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Yes, the conflict is likely intentional and meant to be resolved by loading tippingfix after the instrument hack. As for the unknown BHAVs, those are BHAVs that come from some other mod - in this case, they're from argon's instrument fix. SimPE by default only loads the BHAVs from the game's object packages and the current package, not your entire downloads folder, so it sees custom BHAVs as "unknown". Luckily the game does load your entire downloads folder, so it doesn't have a problem with unknown BHAVs unless you're missing the mod that actually has the BHAV, but if you want certain BHAVs to be recognized by SimPE you can use this tutorial.


That's interesting. I never knew that about unknown BHAVs. Seeing as the unknown BHAVs were also in Pescado's unedited tipping fix, I wonder if there was a mod he forgot to tell us that we needed.

Thanks! Looks like those mods are supposed to work together and I can also cross them off my reasons why my tip jar router is getting stuck on the floor and trapping sims. XD
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