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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 5th May 2011 at 4:04 AM
Default Custom Animations for Sims 3, just how close are we?
Hello All,

First off, my apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong place. Ever since I've installed Sims 3 way back 2009, the questioned if ever having custom animations for Sims 3 was always an enduring topic. We have been fortunate to have creators like Twallan and Cmomoney in developing animation and pose players to play around with. Are customized animations next? With these animation & pose players, just how close are we in finally getting custom animations (other than EA's)? Has it become easier to do? Any opinions guys?
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Forum Resident
#2 Old 5th May 2011 at 7:39 AM
I'm curious, too, Please answer us, our mighty creators and modders of Sims 3 (plus:it's weird to received a welcome message stating that this is MTS2 forum when I registered). I don't hold my hope too high though because it would be complicated, time-assuming to research, to code, to design..etc..
Besides, EA does business, they got money for everything they put in the game, they got the programmer team focusing whole time on creating Sims. Thinking of you guys here in this community giving away all the beautiful and amazing things for free, I always appreciate that.
Top Secret Researcher
#3 Old 5th May 2011 at 8:53 PM
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=420327


NRaas Industries: Sims 3 Mods for the Discerning Player, hosted by The Wikispaces.
Alchemist
#4 Old 5th May 2011 at 9:29 PM
Leave it to you Twallan
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#5 Old 7th May 2011 at 4:39 PM
Quote: Originally posted by bootz
With these animation & pose players, just how close are we in finally getting custom animations (other than EA's)? Has it become easier to do? Any opinions guys?
Playing animations and poses (either custom or EAxian) is actually completely unrelated to creating custom animations. Playing them was basically possible from the very start, even more after the release of TigerM's Smooth Jazz.

Creating custom animations has been basically possible for some time now. AFAIK it's still nowhere near foolproof, so I'd say it's still in alpha stage. The creation itself is and will always be a very challenging artistic process. That's probably why we haven't seen much yet. Also I wouldn't expect much from script modders. Animations better fit the MO of adept meshers.

BTW: I think cmo is actually involved in finding the learnings to make animations, but the other smarties in that area aren't people the regular simmer is familiar with.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Eminence Grise
#6 Old 7th May 2011 at 8:05 PM Last edited by Srikandi : 7th May 2011 at 8:25 PM.
We actually have custom animations in the game already CMO's ceiling fan is an example: http://www.modthesims.info/d/439754 . Yes, that's an animated object rather than an animated sim, but it is a brand-new animation created and put in the game by a modder.

As for sims, a pose is basically a one-frame animation, and we've seen a real modding renaissance with hundreds of new custom poses since the release of CMO's pose player and OM's tutorial for it. http://www.modthesims.info/d/438706

The tech in that was the basis for CMO's animation player: http://www.modthesims.info/d/441682 . Just like the pose player, the new animation player can play new animations that players create from scratch as well as ones already in the game. It is just, like Buzzler said, a LOT more difficult in terms of mastery of the 3D graphics toolset to produce a custom animation than to produce a pose, which is why we haven't seen so many using that yet (it's been out for less than a week).

As for Rothn's thread that Twallan linked above... like many people, I've been following that discussion closely. You can read the thread and draw your own conclusions, but the fact is that though a version of his tool was released in September, after months of development, to my knowledge not a single custom animation has been produced and released using it. This is in spite of the fact that Rothn has declared that the tool was finished and working... several times. And many more times that it was ABOUT to be finished and working... any day now. A lot of people have TRIED to use it, but evidently nobody's really gotten anywhere. Currently, apparently, it's unfinished... again

What most of us regular simmers (as opposed to machinima makers) are really looking for, of course, is new Sim animations tied to game interactions. New dances, new idles, new objects (like say a pinball machine) with associated animations, new sim-sim interactions... including of course the whole seedy world of adult mods. I am not any kind of expert, and I expect to be corrected if I'm wrong, but my impression is that we are very close to this now. We are basically waiting on the artists :-)
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 8th May 2011 at 2:39 AM
Well, reading all this, I can't help but think of the modded Sim animations we had halfway through Sims 2 for um.......adult activities. I don't recall any other animations being created for Sims 2 by the players outside of the forementioned. But now, how close are we to anything like the Sims 2 custom stuff. Cause that could break open a new area to mod.....the Call For Services phone menu.....I dunno if anyone has figured out how to add things to that or not. Think about it......after Generations comes out......call the Stripper Service and the bachelor/bachelorette party strippers come by, no party needed. Expand on the custom careers......call in a hit on another sim.........Call for keg delivery....you name it........but they will all require current animations or new custom ones. I believe the possibility is there, we just have to have patience, develop the right tools, etc.

Sky Marshal Skittles to the rescue!

Causing havoc here at MTS since 2004
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#8 Old 8th May 2011 at 10:09 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
The tech in that was the basis for CMO's animation player: http://www.modthesims.info/d/441682 . Just like the pose player, the new animation player can play new animations that players create from scratch as well as ones already in the game.
However, the accomplishment of the pose player (or animation player) is not the tech. It's the idea and the knowledge how to make custom poses/animations. Playing CLIPs isn't worth mentioning.

Quote:
We are basically waiting on the artists :-)
We will probably never see that many animations. Reasonably well-made and useful animations that is. I've been wrong before, though. Let's hope I'm wrong this time as well.

Quote: Originally posted by BionixWV
Well, reading all this, I can't help but think of the modded Sim animations we had halfway through Sims 2 for um.......adult activities.
We are ALL thinking of these. From what I remember, all these animations were rather stiff wooden clumsy. I vividly remember one interaction that used a/the push-ups animation... yeah, I laughed a bit, deleted the stuff, kept the willies for my Kens. What I'm getting at is this: we see lots of creators struggling to make natural-looking poses right now. As Sri so accurately pointed out, a pose is basically a one-frame animation. However, for an actual animation, not only every frame must be natural-looking, but the transition between the frames as well. Creating good animations is one of the most difficult things in making a computer game and it doesn't get any easier for non-professionals.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Forum Resident
#9 Old 8th May 2011 at 5:02 PM Last edited by writerchick : 8th May 2011 at 5:13 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Buzzler
We are ALL thinking of these. From what I remember, all these animations were rather stiff wooden clumsy. I vividly remember one interaction that used a/the push-ups animation... yeah, I laughed a bit, deleted the stuff, kept the willies for my Kens.


You're thinking of some of the earlier stuff, which was pretty bad, mainly because it relied on existing EA animations rather than custom ones. But Chris Hatch and Joker's Wild did some great stuff much later on. Unfortunately, CH refuses to touch TS3 (I know, because I've asked), and JW is semi- (or completely) retired from the Sims, for now, anyway.

One thing I really admired was some of the unexpected sweet touches in these animations -- where the one on top reaches down to touch their partner's face and then give a kiss. So it wasn't just about the adult action... or rather, the adult action was more than just dirty... (BTW, I took loads of pictures of these animations, because there were a LOT of photogenic moments along the way.)

CH and JW had a LOT of animations... I think it ended up being something like seven different sets, and each set included several variations. Do a google search and then get back to me... ;-)

Quote: Originally posted by Buzzler
What I'm getting at is this: we see lots of creators struggling to make natural-looking poses right now. As Sri so accurately pointed out, a pose is basically a one-frame animation. However, for an actual animation, not only every frame must be natural-looking, but the transition between the frames as well. Creating good animations is one of the most difficult things in making a computer game and it doesn't get any easier for non-professionals.


At least one creator already is making extremely nice poses. (A set of romantic poses for couples, available here on MTS.) From what I recall of the creator discussions with CH and JW, they said that it's actually more realistic if you basically map out a few poses, then allow the sims (or the animation program itself) to figure out how to get from one point to the next, rather than animating every single frame. This did seem to work out very well on their animations. Now, it wasn't perfect... and certainly there was room for improvement. But one could theoretically learn from what's come before to improve on new work. (The weakest part of many of these animations was the starting and ending points -- i.e. how the sims got themselves into their relative positions; often they'd just "jump" or snap into position and then go. This was where the greatest amount of improvement would need to be made.)

My question is how likely is it that sims 2 animations which were decent could be used as a starting point for TS3 work? Obviously, the original creators would have to be asked permission, but is there a way to translate existing TS2 animations (of any sort) into a format which could be read by TS3?

I mean, I'd love to have better reading animations in TS3, ripped directly from TS2, with possible new additional custom actions, as well. Or an animation of the sim actually getting into and out of a vehicle, rather than just popping in and out... Both of these could be taken directly from loops of EA's animations for TS2, if the file formats are compatible or convertible.
Forum Resident
#10 Old 8th May 2011 at 5:11 PM
On a related topic: some simmers will convert Second Life or other sim-type game items into TS2/3 format. Second Life has a huge adult content area. Would it be possible to convert SL adult animations to TS3?

Frankly, I've no idea if they'd even be worth it, since I don't play SL myself, so have no first-hand knowledge of the quality of the animations. But maybe it's a starting point?
Lab Assistant
#11 Old 8th May 2011 at 5:43 PM
Quote: Originally posted by writerchick
On a related topic: some simmers will convert Second Life or other sim-type game items into TS2/3 format. Second Life has a huge adult content area. Would it be possible to convert SL adult animations to TS3?

Frankly, I've no idea if they'd even be worth it, since I don't play SL myself, so have no first-hand knowledge of the quality of the animations. But maybe it's a starting point?


Thats a good question. I know awhile back DMA-Sims tried looking into doing the same for Sims 3 that they had done for Sims 2, but the animations, lack of proper NPC base was the killing blow to the project, among other things.
Can't remember who else had cutom NPC's that were adult themed.

Aside from that, what about animations some people have been begging for? Like the Pose Player pack "Accidents Happen"......have your sim get rid of another pesky sim by pushing them down the stairs. You know actually pushing another, and the other rolls down the stairs and lays in a crumpled mess.Along the same lines, didn't EA tease us prior to Sims 3 launch by saying we should make sure our sims get across the streets before they get hit by the cars? Where did that go? Instead, sims phase through.......make it so teen/young adult and older can get either clipped and "blackened/foul mood" or killed outright if encountering a vehicle. Could we do something like that in the future? Or see if EA goofed and left the original code in the game for that buried somewhere? Cause they must have made it, in order to tease us, but then.........it got yanked out or buried in the game and over-ridden.

Sky Marshal Skittles to the rescue!

Causing havoc here at MTS since 2004
Test Subject
#12 Old 8th May 2011 at 6:20 PM
Made my first custom animation last night, works like a dream *w*
Test Subject
#13 Old 11th May 2011 at 11:09 PM
I've also made a few successful test custom animations, although they are for machinima rather than object based or game interactions. Thanks to various mods and tools this will greatly enhance machinima and storytelling. This video I made showcases the Animation Player and uses 2 EA animations and 2 custom animations looped in a chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9EGpU7MSsc

It's still very much in it's infancy, but eventually there will hopefully be a variety of different custom animations available.
Eminence Grise
#14 Old 11th May 2011 at 11:14 PM
Wow... very nice, ssproductions And, since the animation player is, after all, an object, I suppose that passes the test of an object-based animation. Certainly a proof-of-concept!
Instructor
#15 Old 12th May 2011 at 10:56 AM
Is it possible to import The Sims 2 animation and other games into The Sims 3?

There are a lot of cool animation and we don't need to build it from scratch.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#16 Old 12th May 2011 at 11:10 AM
Nope, it's not. One might be able to use animations from TS2 as a guide to make similar ones for TS3, but the skeleton is different.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Forum Resident
#17 Old 12th May 2011 at 1:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
Nope, it's not. One might be able to use animations from TS2 as a guide to make similar ones for TS3, but the skeleton is different.


Thanks, HP. Was wondering the same thing myself. Using them as a guide would mean there'd still be a lot of work to do, but at least you'd have a good starting point.

I guess that would also be true for other games, like Second Life? They couldn't be directly converted, but could possibly be used as a guide?
Lab Assistant
#18 Old 12th May 2011 at 7:12 PM
Well, doesn't a certain "creator" by the name of Peggy use SL files to create her sims 3 stuff sometimes? Like the hair styles?

Sky Marshal Skittles to the rescue!

Causing havoc here at MTS since 2004
Instructor
#19 Old 12th May 2011 at 8:43 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
Nope, it's not. One might be able to use animations from TS2 as a guide to make similar ones for TS3, but the skeleton is different.


How about converting it?

Using tool or something, is it possible? Translating TS2 bone assignment to TS3 one.

It will be extremely awesome! TS2 has tons of cool animation and interaction, even better than TS3. I just hope it possible. :D
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#20 Old 12th May 2011 at 8:46 PM
writerchick - Could be used as a guide, yes. But that's true of anything, really - most of the good pose creators are likely using real life pictures of poses. If you're going to animate something, you'd probably use a video or motion capture of someone doing that pose to get a good result.

BionixWV - She was suspected of using Poser files for a while but that's probably not true. Her stuff is likely from-scratch copies. It'd take longer to convert from something like Poser or SL than to remake from scratch. Me and Nouk both tried at one point and it was just not doable, even if you know a lot about 3D and hair.

Celebritron - Maaaaybe but honestly I think you'd get a better result just looking at the animation from whatever in slow motion and trying to recreate it. If you have the TS2 animations and can look at the keyframes you could use it as a great guide to the overall pose but it'd still require a lot of work to get right.
Instructor
#21 Old 12th May 2011 at 9:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
.................................

Celebritron - Maaaaybe but honestly I think you'd get a better result just looking at the animation from whatever in slow motion and trying to recreate it. If you have the TS2 animations and can look at the keyframes you could use it as a great guide to the overall pose but it'd still require a lot of work to get right.


Sorry for being stubborn, I'm excited but completely blind on the subjects.

How about a tool to automate the process by translating the TS2 bone assignment and animation to TS3?

Is it possible?

By setting up the pose one by one in Milkshape, the animation will not look smooth and there's no face expression too.
Test Subject
#22 Old 13th May 2011 at 7:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
Wow... very nice, ssproductions And, since the animation player is, after all, an object, I suppose that passes the test of an object-based animation. Certainly a proof-of-concept!


Thanks Srikandi It's certainly fun making them and really opens up a whole new realm.
Alchemist
#23 Old 19th May 2011 at 2:23 AM
As far as custom animations for S3 go...we're there. It's completely possible to create your own custom animation and pop it in game to view with the Animation Player...if it's a short one you can even view it with the Pose Player. It's really fun to see your own stuff in the game and I encourage people to give it a try Prior to the players you could make your own animation and even see it in the (base) game using the Chaos Mage painting. But we needed something that handled the Look-At overlay the game has and we first had to figure a way around the IK issue to get the animations to look right when they played. All that took a bit of time

As far as useable animations go, animations which are precise and well made, that's going to take a bit more time probably. A couple of issues are involved as I see it. First off most people making things for S3 use Milkshape and this editor is not the best suited for S3 sequence animation. To anyone considering getting into S3 animation I highly recommend bypassing Milkshape and learning to animate with Blender, Maya, or some other editor that can import/export .smd and handle IK. If you're just starting out learn to make one frame animations (aka poses) first and then move on to sequence animation. Making a pose is about the simplest thing you can make for S3 tbh. Anyone who has struggled with meshing and worries that making a pose must be even harder...set your mind at ease...it *isn't* Anyway, Blender is free for everyone and Maya has a special deal allowing students to use it for free under a special license. So not only do you get a more powerful editor you can get the editor for free.

Second big issue, as far as most people who have any animation experience, is that attaching your animation to an object takes coding. Currently there is no tool to simplify that process and most animators don't seem to have the coding experience to do it without such a tool. So until the coders learn to animate, the animators learn to code, or someone makes some kind of tool for the purpose we probably aren't going to be seeing many custom objects like love beds etc.

There are other more technical issues but those will likely get solved in time. After sort of languishing for quite a while animation has come a long way in a pretty short period of time. Hopefully the trend will continue
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#24 Old 19th May 2011 at 8:42 PM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
So until the coders learn to animate, the animators learn to code, or someone makes some kind of tool for the purpose we probably aren't going to be seeing many custom objects like love beds etc.
No tool can possibly create a script that does anything beyond simply showing the animation. If you want a script that has any relevance gameplay-wise, you'll need an actual coder. What may be possible is a statemachine editor that is more noob-friendly than Smooth Jazz.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Alchemist
#25 Old 20th May 2011 at 12:17 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Buzzler
No tool can possibly create a script that does anything beyond simply showing the animation. If you want a script that has any relevance gameplay-wise, you'll need an actual coder. What may be possible is a statemachine editor that is more noob-friendly than Smooth Jazz.
Well now, I didn't suggest a script-writing tool capable of creating perfect, unique scripts for individual items That would be a little far-fetched. Definitely, a more user-friendly (I'm talking for inexperienced people) JAZZ editor would be very nice and probably move things forward. On the other hand, there have some nice collaborations between people with different skill sets both in S2 and S3. Nothing wrong in that either
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