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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 8th Oct 2008 at 7:58 PM Last edited by Cytron : 10th Oct 2008 at 11:13 PM.
Problem with the Bounding Mesh
Hello,

I have a problem with the bounding mesh.
-Simpe: I cloned an animated object and export it as Milkshape 3D ASCII
-MilkShape: Import Milkshape 3D ASCII, changed the mesh, Export as Milkshape 3D ASCII
-Simpe: Import as Milkshape 3D ASCII

But the Bounding Mesh is not correct
I uploaded the package (attachment)


Maybe someone can help me

(sorry for my bad english!)
Greets
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Test Subject
Original Poster
#2 Old 9th Oct 2008 at 9:25 PM Last edited by Cytron : 10th Oct 2008 at 1:29 AM.
Nobody? I can't solve it alone
Where "saved" SimPE the Bounding Mesh (animated Object with Joints)? CRES or GMDC?
If I import a new Mesh in Simpe, with which options?
"Remove all Groups before Import" or Replace? and the Bone Settings "Update" or Replace or?
Inventor
#3 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 2:49 AM
I can't load the sims right now to look at it, but I will as soon as I can - however, I've got a question: Did you clone from a maxis object, or from a CC object? Sometimes CC can get a little twitchy when you try and clone it, and can work just fine, until you want to play with the mesh itself.

Reyn Silversong-Sim Architect

Terms of Use-All of my stuff is available for use anywhere that is free. All I ask is credit and a link back to the objects in question, or the house they are featured with. DO NOT POST ON THE EXCHANGE!
Test Subject
Original Poster
#4 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 7:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Reyn
I can't load the sims right now to look at it, but I will as soon as I can - however, I've got a question: Did you clone from a maxis object, or from a CC object? Sometimes CC can get a little twitchy when you try and clone it, and can work just fine, until you want to play with the mesh itself.

Thanks for your answer !
I cloned the object from a download (just for me to learn).
What is "CC"? A Cloned-Object?
#5 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 7:54 AM
"CC" is short for "Custom Content".
Retired Duck
retired moderator
#6 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 9:17 AM
Hey

I can't see anything obviously wrong in the package... Is the object completely non-clickable (no hand anywhere), or is there some part which is and some part which isn't?
The ModFather
retired moderator
#7 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 10:30 AM
I didn't reply so far because I still haven't understood how the bounding mesh works in jointed meshes.
Simple non-animated meshes are easier: you can clear and add parts in the GMDC's "Model" tab (SimPE automatically creates the correct bounding mesh when importing the mesh anyway).
But this method can NOT be used if the mesh has joints: the game would crash, if you manually edit the bounding mesh in SimPE. What I have understood so far is that probably the game creates the bounding mesh taking in account the vertices assigned to the "master" joint (or to any bone attached to it). But I don't know how to manually modify the bounding mesh, nor I know how to identify the "master" joint.
Once I had this problem (I was working to the Simstones car) and Marvine fixed the mesh for me: we should ask him

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#8 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 3:46 PM
@GeneralOperationsDirector ok, thank you!
@Echo some part which is and some part which isn't clickable
Quote: Originally posted by Numenor
But this method can NOT be used if the mesh has joints: the game would crash, if you manually edit the bounding mesh in SimPE.

Yes, I tried this befor and the game crashed : D.
Quote:
What I have understood so far is that probably the game creates the bounding mesh taking in account the vertices assigned to the "master" joint (or to any bone attached to it). But I don't know how to manually modify the bounding mesh, nor I know how to identify the "master" joint.

In the cres resource?
Test Subject
Original Poster
#9 Old 10th Oct 2008 at 11:07 PM
Hello again I think I know now how to fix it. Just use the "Sims2 UniMesh Im/Exporter" for MilkShape. I don't know why, but it the Bounding Mesh works now
#10 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 4:48 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Cytron
@GeneralOperationsDirector ok, thank you!
You`re welcome.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
The ModFather
retired moderator
#11 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 11:54 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Cytron
Hello again I think I know now how to fix it. Just use the "Sims2 UniMesh Im/Exporter" for MilkShape. I don't know why, but it the Bounding Mesh works now

Thanks for the suggestion; it's an effective solution indeed, but still my curiousity is unsatisfied Using the Unimesh plugin keeps intact that "something" that is easily lost when using other im/export methods; I'd just like to know what is that "something" and where it is stored.

PS: in my previous post, I was referring to the joint asignments, as stored in the mesh, in the GMDC; but you make me suspect that after all the CRES might be important under this point of view, though I can't think to a place in the CRWES where to store the bounding mesh data. After all, you solved the problem using the Unimesh (that operates on the GMDC only). Perhaps the GMDC plugin of SimPE just doesn't tell us everything we want to know

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#12 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 2:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Numenor
Thanks for the suggestion; it's an effective solution indeed, but still my curiousity is unsatisfied Using the Unimesh plugin keeps intact that "something" that is easily lost when using other im/export methods; I'd just like to know what is that "something" and where it is stored.

PS: in my previous post, I was referring to the joint asignments, as stored in the mesh, in the GMDC; but you make me suspect that after all the CRES might be important under this point of view, though I can't think to a place in the CRWES where to store the bounding mesh data. After all, you solved the problem using the Unimesh (that operates on the GMDC only). Perhaps the GMDC plugin of SimPE just doesn't tell us everything we want to know

Yes, you're right, it's only in the gmdc, because the UniMesh-Plugin change only this resource.
If you click at "Comment" (in Milkshape/Joints) you can see someting like this: ImpQuatDat: 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 -0.512712 0.207002
Is that the informations for the "bounding mesh"?
Inventor
#13 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 4:23 PM
Yay! I'm glad you figured it out. I'm sorry I wasn't more help, this weekend has been hectic.

Reyn Silversong-Sim Architect

Terms of Use-All of my stuff is available for use anywhere that is free. All I ask is credit and a link back to the objects in question, or the house they are featured with. DO NOT POST ON THE EXCHANGE!
The ModFather
retired moderator
#14 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 5:05 PM
Reyn, you mean that the bounding mesh data is exported in the "ImpQuatDat" comment? And when you reimport it in SimPE, where does SimPE store those values?

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#15 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 5:23 PM
Numenor, since I have caught you here in some vaguely related topic, do you have any help for us with that strange CRES you found, that SimPE could not read? Peter and I are stuck. Is it just those two with the problem?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
The ModFather
retired moderator
#16 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 6:20 PM
Yes, so far I didn't found other CRES with such a problem; I cloned almost all the objects from Apartment life (all the buyable ones, plus some accessories), and those two are the only problematic CRES that I've found. Can't Peter trace the plugin's operational flow to understand at least which bytes in the CRES are different then expected?

PS: though my MSN is always set to "Away", it's not always true -

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#17 Old 11th Oct 2008 at 7:14 PM
Well he did do that, and found SimPE wanted to read in 13 Unk bytes in a place where there were only 5 before it overran the next block. But that means there must be a count byte in there somewhere andwe can't spot it.

Oh well maybe if it's just those two we can live without them.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Retired Duck
retired moderator
#18 Old 13th Oct 2008 at 12:58 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Numenor
Thanks for the suggestion; it's an effective solution indeed, but still my curiousity is unsatisfied Using the Unimesh plugin keeps intact that "something" that is easily lost when using other im/export methods; I'd just like to know what is that "something" and where it is stored.


With an animated object, the bounding mesh must be attached to the skeleton. Otherwise, if a sim moved their arm out in front of them, it wouldn't be clickable. Instead, the clickable area would be where the sim's arm was when it was first meshed.

I can't tell you specifically how the Unimesh plugin does things differently to the ascii mode, but when you load a jointed object through unimesh, I was under the impression that the bounding mesh was made up of all vertices assigned to a joint, so long as that joint has the root practical node somewhere in its ancestry. My guess is that going through a non-unimesh system doesn't follow the hierarchy correctly so ends up missing bits.
The ModFather
retired moderator
#19 Old 13th Oct 2008 at 2:42 AM
But if the Unimesh can export correctly the bounding mesh, is there a way to actually see it in Milkshape, or even modify it? BTW, when dealing with animated objects, things are simpler, because no one would care if - for example - a car door would be not clickable during the few moments it is open. Nevertheless, losing completely the bounding mesh is nothing we can ignore -

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Retired Duck
retired moderator
#20 Old 13th Oct 2008 at 3:59 AM
I don't think so, I think the export process takes a copy of the object and duplicates it into a different area of the GMDC. It may not even be something that can be seen in SimPE, you'd have to ask Wes about that...

A car door may not be such an issue, but other objects could be. Not everything reverts back to its default shape within a few seconds.
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