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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 14th Oct 2008 at 7:55 PM Last edited by jon119 : 14th Oct 2008 at 7:57 PM. Reason: some mistakes...
Default Strange reflections (less visible in daylight) on my mesh...
Hiy, today I imported three new gravestone meshes and tested them in game. At first I was absolutely satisfacted but then I switched to the night mode and on two of the meshes (But not on the third one, cross-shaped... ) there wher bright stripes that moved when I rotated the view.
I think it has something to do with the object I cloned it from, it's that bronze apple sculpture.

Is there a way I can get rid of those reflections easily??? They are nearly invisible in daylight or with many lamps but not very nice by night...

Best Regards jon119

P.S.: Sorry for image quality, just installed Sims on my laptop and forgot to change it.
Screenshots
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The ModFather
retired moderator
#2 Old 15th Oct 2008 at 12:37 AM
In the Repair Center, you are supposed to attach the package, for us to examine it and suggest a fix.
However, I think that the problem may be a bad smoothing (i.e. normals alignment).

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Instructor
Original Poster
#3 Old 15th Oct 2008 at 11:12 AM
Thanks for your reply, Numenor !
I believe you're right that it has to do with the smoothing as I smoothed the two wrong stones but no the cross.
I just used the "set smooth" function in Blender as often before but I don't remember problems like that...
I'll attach the package of the small, wrong reflecting stone.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  JB-Gravestone-PeaceDove.zip (312.6 KB, 6 downloads) - View custom content
The ModFather
retired moderator
#4 Old 16th Oct 2008 at 2:53 AM
Yes, the smoothing is definitely excessive...
In this screenshot (from UVmapper pro), your mesh is on the right, while on the left you can see a correct lower smoothing.



Find attached the fixed package: I didn't test it in game, but I'm quite confident it will look fine.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  JB-Gravestone-PeaceDove.rar (306.5 KB, 3 downloads) - View custom content

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Instructor
Original Poster
#5 Old 16th Oct 2008 at 10:27 AM
Thank you a lot for the help and effort!
I'll test it as soon as possible. I'ts very nice that you have attached the correctly smoothed mesh but I have another wrong mesh and I don't know if and how you can adjust the "strength" of the smoothing function in Blender.

Do you or someone else know how to do that in Blender?

Regards jon119
The ModFather
retired moderator
#6 Old 16th Oct 2008 at 2:11 PM
You say that there's a "Set Smooth" function in Blender, right? Is there a field where to write a value, a parameter? Or maybe a slider to move?
Can you select one or more esges and set them as "hard edges"? Hard edges are not smoothed, you know.

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Instructor
Original Poster
#7 Old 19th Oct 2008 at 5:15 PM
Hi,
I'm sorry that I couldn't answer earlier because we were on a short tour for the last days.
I'll attach a screenshot of the blender control menu for you because I didn't find such a function there. I thought it could be that auto smooth degree but when I changed it there was no difference.
I know how to select only a few edges to be smoothed but I once read that it can't be imported as .obj file then... Is it possible with another file format?

Regards jon119
Screenshots
The ModFather
retired moderator
#8 Old 19th Oct 2008 at 7:12 PM
I agree that the "Degree..." is probably what we were looking for; it's odd that you can't see any difference, though.
Maybe, in order to see the difference in blender you must activate a different view mode (in Wings, for example, smoothing is visible on screen only when the "raytracing" option is activated, otherwise I see only sharp edges).
Or maybe you have to redo the smoothing after setting a new degree, in order for it to take effect.

When you say "no differences", you mean in game, or in Blender? Maybe you could try setting the Degree to zero, import the mesh in SimPE and look at the object in game.

You should ask to someone expert with Blender... Lethe_s maybe; you could aske her by PM to look at this thread.

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Instructor
Original Poster
#9 Old 20th Oct 2008 at 8:54 AM Last edited by jon119 : 20th Oct 2008 at 9:20 AM.
Okay, I think I'll write to Lethe_s because she is really very experienced with Blender. With no differences I mean that in Blender it looks the same no matter what degree I choose.

EDIT:
I think I got it now. You have to work with the so called "EdgeSplit" Modifier. There you can also adjust a degree. I looks good and quite similar to yours with all angles between 70.00 and 89.00 but as strange as before with 90.00.

Thanks again for spending all the time on helping me and others here !
The ModFather
retired moderator
#10 Old 20th Oct 2008 at 9:34 AM
Are you sure that "Edge Split" doesn't mean duplicating all the edges having angle greater than the given value? This would increase greatly the number of vertices...
If with "no differences" you meant only in blender, than I'm cusrious to know how the object would look in game after setting a low value for the Degree...

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Instructor
Original Poster
#11 Old 20th Oct 2008 at 12:43 PM Last edited by jon119 : 20th Oct 2008 at 7:16 PM.
You are right, all angles that remain sharp are duplicated but as long as the object doesn't have too many sharp edges I think it's ok.
I also believe that it's the only way to do such a smoothing in Blender. I noticed that the correctly smoothed stone you made has much more vertices (184) than the original mesh (82) in Blender. Is it the same in your program?
I think the auto smooth function won't be useful here because I read in the german Blender wikibook that those smooth settings are lost in the export process ( the reason given is that they are no "real smoothing groups"...). But if you want I can import the auto smoothed object anyhow to see how it comes out in game.

EDIT:
Finally I tested the object you smoothed for me and so I found out that the problem was not the smoothing...
I cloned it from another object and tested it and the reflections were gone .

Nevertheless I'm interested if Lethe_s can perhaps say something about the Auto Smooth or the EdgeSplit Modifier. I've read some articles on the internet that said that there's no other way to smooth only certain edges in Blender and use them in PC games.

Regards jon119
The ModFather
retired moderator
#12 Old 21st Oct 2008 at 2:14 AM
The greater number of vertices are due to the way SimPE handles the meshes. For example, if you create a pyramid, the mesh has 5 vertices in total (1 on the top and 4 on the base); but as soon as you import the mesh into SimPE, the vertices become 12: each vertex is split in three, because it is part of three different faces.

As for the reflections, maybe the TXMT included in the first clone was too reflective (mabe you cloned an object containing metal parts...). Anyway, I'm glad that the problem is solved now

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Instructor
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#13 Old 21st Oct 2008 at 8:54 AM
Oh, really... I always wondered why SimPE never recognizes the same Vertice count as Blender or UV-Mapper.

You are probably right concerning the TXMT because the first object I cloned was that bronze apple. I set the reflectivity to 1.0 ( what I read is the lowest possible) but it was perhaps another wrong parameter left...

Best Regards and Thanks once more
jon119
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#14 Old 6th Nov 2008 at 10:44 AM
I thought reflectivity of 1 was high reflectivity? 0 is lowest.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
The ModFather
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#15 Old 6th Nov 2008 at 2:32 PM
No, the highest reflectivity is achieved by using smaller values (I usually use 0.1 to get a very glossy look); but mind that a value of zero deactivates completely the reflectivity.
I know it's odd: 0.0 = no reflectivity, 0.1 = max reflectivity, 1.0 = again no reflectivity.
I suspect it's not intended: if I'm right, and the "reflectivity" parameter is the lower part of a fraction ("denominator" ?), then a value of zero should make the game stop processing the calculation, in order to avoid an overflow.

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#16 Old 6th Nov 2008 at 3:04 PM
Ah that's what I usually do, just set to 0 if I don't want reflections. I know the specular power has to be lower to get a harder shiny look rather than just a general brightness.

Actually, since this is somewhat related, I keep having to take my models through Wings to make the edges sharp and surfaces appear flat rather than shaded as if they were curved, which is a hassle as I do everythging else in Milkshape. Does anyone know if there is a similar utility in Milkshape?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
The ModFather
retired moderator
#17 Old 6th Nov 2008 at 3:17 PM
Don't you have UVmapper Pro? Setting the smoothing to 0 is the same as setting the edges to hard in Wings, but it's easier and faster (and the OBJ file is immediately readable by SimPE).

I'm not that expert with Milkshape, but JWoods always suggested to use the menu Vertex -> Unweld; this way, all the faces are considered separated from each other, and no smoothing nor "rounding" is possible. Of course this means multiplying the vertex count (in a welded pyramid there are 4 vertices, that become 12 when the mesh is unwelded), but SimPE itself unwelds the mesh when loads it, so you are not causing any damage manually unwelding the mesh in Milkshape...

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#18 Old 6th Nov 2008 at 3:55 PM
I do have UVmapper Pro, but I was scared to click Smooth in case it made the whole thing spherical or something

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
The ModFather
retired moderator
#19 Old 6th Nov 2008 at 4:11 PM
Don't worry It's the most useful option UVmapper offers! And it works as one would expect: with a value of zero, all the edges are "hard"; the greater the value, the higher number of edges are smoothed. And SimPE will load the OBJ keeping the exact smoothing you previewed in UVmapper.

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


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