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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 6:38 PM
Default Teens without guardians regarding House Property
This thread were a bit difficult to name, because a year or two back I asked a similar topic. That thread was orphaned teens, but my play-style has changed and I don't play medieval hoods at the moment, but I still like to give the game a "semi" realistic feel.

I've a situation in my hood I'm not sure how to play out. It's not about orphans but about minor teens without guardians. In real life it's seems to be around 16-18 depending on where you live where a teen has right to live alone and allow property, but these teens I've are practically PRE-Teens under the age of 13 in "human age" (using modded lifespan, teens are 10 to 23, 19 if they're going to college, with 1 day = 1 year). One example is where both parents were sent to jail for life and do not have any relatives that are able to care for other children, along with deadbeat parents (like romance sims) who doesn't care about them. In the game mechanism, teens can live alone without an adult guarding them.

So I'm wondering, How would you play out situations like this?
Not just orphans but where ANY teens are left alone, especially the younger ones.

I do have the no social worker for children, but due to my semi-realistic play-style, I'm not a big fan of sims that young taking care of themself. I allow teens who are halfway through teen-stage (which is 16-18) to remain in the house regarding of reasons but I keep debating whether to let them remain in the house since its basically less then a sim week before they're coming of age and a hassle to move them to orphanage .

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Alchemist
#2 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 8:02 PM
in shipped version of at least base game, Teens can be the oldest members of a household.
shipped version ways to achieve that::
-killing household's Adults/Elders.
-moving out household's Adults/Elders through either computer or newspaper.
-household's Adults/Elders being selected in a Move-In dialog; when another household's sim does Move In or Marry/Join.
or any combination of those 3.

Teens are seldom the oldest household members in my game.
Scholar
Original Poster
#3 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 8:13 PM
I'm not talking about teens becoming the owners through means (vanilla or mods), but whether other simmers ALLOW teens in the beginning of the stage to remain on their previous guardians house (not necessary parents) when the guardian passed away, being neglected or send somewhere (ie military or prison). Personally I've inteen so moving them to another lots is almost too easy, but using realistic ages I'm not keen of having them independent when they're still consider pre-adolescent.

For example, I play uberhood with Hood Building project hoods attached. In Shady shores, they're just ONE elder as parent while the teens there now are at the beginning of the teen-stage (10-13 years old) and the elders are reaching death, while in Bay-side Flats, I had a couple becoming murders and will be sent to prison but have three teenager girls also at 10-13 of age.

In medieval hood I often ignore it as they tends to get married in teenage, but this hood is set in modern times so I often debating whether to let them to stay in the house or not.
Mad Poster
#4 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 8:17 PM Last edited by Bulbizarre : 24th Nov 2018 at 9:42 PM.
In my game, the house is kept in trust by my playable social worker (Miss Orphanage) so that it doesn't get scammed away from the teenagers, but they're allowed to live there so long as they can take care of themselves. She checks up on them every so often to see if they're keeping their grades, hygiene, etc up. If they aren't, then they go stay at the orphanage (or with relatives, or perhaps a foster parent) until they're an adult.

I'm secretly a Bulbasaur. | Formerly known as ihatemandatoryregister

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Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#5 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 9:56 PM
10-11-12 is not a teen though, that's a preteen. (child) On the other end 19-23 is not a teen but an adult (young adult). For pre-teens and teens I would want them to go to the orphanage but it would be up to my playable social worker to find them if they were runaways. I did a runaway teen challenge once, I made it so she tried to have no adult contact. If they were not runaways but just orphaned then they would move to the orphanage. It would depend on the story and on the teen's personalities if they stayed (allowed Social services to take them) or ran away.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Scholar
Original Poster
#6 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 10:05 PM
Joandsarah77
Well, I use insim/sim-blender etc to add or subtract age from teen regarding whether they going to university or not (or age up with the College pack). Thats why my modded lifespan use 10 to 23 for teen stage, but basically i preferred a longer stage because I find pre-teen and YA overlaps and why 10 to be part of teen stage mainly because of the TWEEN word or puberty. Otherwise I guess it's 13-19 (thirTEEN, nineTEEN), but 1t feel a bit odd having a 13 years old "owning" the house to pay bills and such.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#7 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 10:44 PM
You know I use a ton on mods including modded ages too, but that wasn't my point. A 10-11-12 year old in real life is not yet a teenager. You might decide you want to age children to teen and call them 10-11-12 but that is something different. Your game your rules, but you asked what we would do and in my game a 10-11-12 is a child (child aged sim) and I would not have them live by themselves at all. On the other end in real life, our country and I think all others count from 18 on as an adults now. (It used to be 21) So very different rules apply. While 18-19-year-olds are technically teens they are also adults, and in my game they would be set as young adults and I would treat them as such. I have tried independent teen and didn't like it. So I would age them to YA if they were about to turn 18. I have a very exact ageing schedule, probably as exact as yours, but different. 1 day = 6 months, teenagerhood is 13-18 so 10 days.

I would not leave 13-17 year olds in the house. As I said I would decide depending on personality and story if they would go willingly to the orphanage or runaway. My runaway 13 year old didn't pay bills or get a newspaper, she lived on a small lot with a tent because she was a runaway. She fished, grew some vegetables and dug up beach treasure for money. By the time she became a YA she had enough money to move to my slum area and since she was 18 (YA) she could sign up for a room no questions asked. I also have a homeless lot so I could also move a runaway there. I would have to place another down as it's already occupied and that couple would not want a runaway teen hanging around them.

Oddly enough my criminal dad went to jail just last night, pickpocketing my playable cow wasn't his smartest move, plus he has 2 teenage kids, I forget how old exactly but about 14 and 16/17. Since they are criminals and live basically in a type of homeless lot I will probably allow them to stay. It's a slum lot by Zar on here and they sleep in a tent already.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Theorist
#8 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 11:05 PM
I tend to treat all teenagers the same, no matter how far along they are in their teenager hood.

When a teen finds themselves living alone due to some twist of fate or the other then multiple things can happen:

1) They might be sent to live with their nearest relative (this is the default option for children, toddlers and babies, since I don't let the social worker mess up my family trees)

2)They might be taken in by friends of their parents or the parents of their friends (in my current neighbourhood this happened with Jeff Pleasant who spend most of his teenager hood living with the family of his future wife)

3)They have most of their money taken away and are forced to relocate to a dingy house in Downtown and are being neglected there.

4)If there's a vampire coven, they might end up joining them.

Their younger siblings (if any) will continue to live with the teen.

I like the idea you mentioned with the military. Since I now have a military base in my neighbourhood I might make enlistment into an option.

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Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Scholar
Original Poster
#9 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 11:15 PM Last edited by Florentzina : 24th Nov 2018 at 11:28 PM.
When I think of orphanages (which another forum that wasn't about sims thought were unrealistic and not common in real life anymore and referred to use foster-home instead), I often think of adoptions more, rather than minors, which I why I hesitate to put them in the orphanage.

JoandSarah77
I was referring to the terminology though. Tween to me is young teenager, but anyways no need to debate over it. I know there are people who consider that's a child. I find it rather amusing because in Sweden, people call me, a 29 years old for a "grown up" child or "adult child", because I still depend on my parents due to medical reasons (It would be a bit tricky to move out if you cannot handle a job) but if I were talking to a kid from a different country, I'm TOO old for a lot of things But that's off topic, sorry.

Orphalesion
I haven't develop military system yet, but one example I had in mind was if it's a single parent would be enlisted, the kids would be alone too. .But I think I read other threads where players send them to military training instead of orphanage.
Mad Poster
#10 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 11:39 PM
@Florentzina - the orphanage in my hood is probably more akin to a group home, but "Sunshine Group Home" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Miss Orphanage is in the process of trying to set up a formalized foster care system.

I should probably think of a better name for her, too.

I'm secretly a Bulbasaur. | Formerly known as ihatemandatoryregister

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Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#11 Old 24th Nov 2018 at 11:48 PM
My orphanage is a nice house with some land run by a couple, so more like foster parents. So far I have only had babies and toddlers and one child there. I think if young teens alone ever became a thing in my game (I doubt it) I would make another hosue and call it a half-way home. So foster parents similar to what my orphanage is, only my playable is in the Social services career. (custom career) I don't have an NPC SS.

'adult child' sounds very strange to me, but okay! We all come from different cultures. The terminology in-game only has real effect though on the life state of the sim. Teens have very different game capabilities compared to children and young adults. So I had to mention it because my 10-11-12 are child sims, while my 18-19 year olds are young adult sims.

The real question is what to do about teen stage sims no matter what age you are calling them.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#12 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 12:47 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Florentzina
deadbeat parents (like romance sims) who doesn't care
You're skating on thin ice there! If Andrew reads that, he'll be telling you in no uncertain terms, that his mum Gloria (Romance) is by far the best parent in the world. I think I agree with him: my Romance Sims seem just as good parents as any others. And the mother/son bond between Gloria and Andrew is the strongest I've ever seen, either in The Sims or in Real Life.

On the main subject of the thread, I'd try to leave them at home if at all possible. I like Bulbizarre's idea of having a playable social worker keeping an eye on them. Orphanages really don't have a good record for looking after children. At best they tend to institutionalise them; at worst they can expose them to abuse. I have at least one teen in my game (Ginger Newson) who hates orphanages with a passion, and has declared that "her" children will only go into one over her dead body. (And I'm certainly not going to kill her.)

If the state has deprived children of their parents by imprisoning them, or because their parents are serving the state in the armed forces, then I reckon the state has an absolute duty to look after the children -- and look after them well. If the young teens are struggling, rather than just sending them to an orphanage, I think the playable social worker should look to see what other help might be provided to help them. A daily maid for example, to help them keep the house clean. In game I find that TS2 teens can look after themselves just as well as any adults (if not better), and can even make a reasonable go at looking after younger children. (Again Ginger Newson is a shining example -- she and Gavin invariably put their [step-]siblings' needs before their own.) Where teen householders (and I have a lot of them on my game) can really struggle though is finance. They can't easily get adult jobs, and they are usually still trying to go to school. In my own game I often just let them grow money trees (it's probably th least realistic aspect of my game), but really the state should provide for them. This could be done by money cheats (Kaching),,but I think it would be better for the social worker to send/give them money using a mod like christianlov's Wallet. You'd probably still need to use money cheats to provide the social worker with the funds she needs to distribute, but I believe you have high taxes/bills in your game so this shouldn't be a problem: if the state is raking in millions of Simoleons in taxes, surely it can afford decent welfare payments, especially for children. Otherwise, what are the high taxes for? (I believe this is the Swedish model anyway.)

An alternative for those whose parents are serving in the armed forces is a boarding school. I believe the UK provides this, at least as an option for its military personnel. By the way, in any civilised society, forces personnel will get at least occasional home leave, so they will be able to see their children sometimes.

Sorry if my post is a bit long and rambling! Just say if anything I've said isn't clear, and I'll try to explain. Thanks for another interesting thread! (I always find your threads interesting Florentzina.)

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
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The Veronaville kids are alright.
Scholar
Original Poster
#13 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 1:11 AM Last edited by Florentzina : 25th Nov 2018 at 1:35 AM.
AndrewGloria.Try to give them 10 kids and see if the response is positive then. mwhhaha.
Casanova, Don Lothario in my game has FOURTEEN kids. (Un-)Fortunately he has family secondary and the mothers take care of them...

Romance sims usually fear of having children which I why their aspiration more pron to the dilemma. Though family sims can be nightmares too. They're like fortune sims, but wants only more and more children. Not until they reach 20 grandchildren, it feels like they don't stop wanting more. As for parenting, well, I can't comment as I've zero interests in children in real life. ....And it's better to rambling about the topic (because I find it interesting how other simmers play the game) than be like me, going off topic way too often.

Actually I don't have the tax system.... yet. The current hood is set in the 21th centuary.......kind of. It seems like I prefer the ghetto/poverty play-style (those countries with conception/birth issues, I don't want to name any in case it offense anyone), so many kids get knocked up at young age because I don't allow them birth control unless they're serious/neat. But I plan to set a tax system up someday, but this one is simulating fees like education, food (use money modded fridges), newspaper, electricity, water etc, not just taxes. The education cost anywhere between 1000 (basic read/write) to 50K (If they want to become doctors in a wealthy family). Not sure how it'll affect teens living alone though. Apart from they can't go to a fancy school or college. Most premade families OWN the house without mortgages/loans. So it's more maintenance bills. With inteen flavor pak, they function like adults and get regular full job halfway through teen stage, but thats when they're already old enough to care of themself, so not so helpful.

It's been a decade since I was a teen but I live on allowance benefits which would never cover up my parents two floor vintage villa bills.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 1:13 AM
According to the Prima Guide, any aspiration other than Family has a universal fear of having more than four kids. As always, take with a grain of salt.

I'm secretly a Bulbasaur. | Formerly known as ihatemandatoryregister

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Instructor
#15 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 8:48 AM
To me, it depends on the house. If I like the house where the orphans are living, no matter what their age, they continue living there, let's say they feel their parents' thoughts are still in the house. If I want the hood to be smaller, I send the orphans to live with someone else.
Forum Resident
#16 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 9:18 AM
Teens below 18 would need a guardian in my opinion. The ones I've played have been a bit older and lived close to relatives they had a good relationship with, so I decided that their families would check in with them periodically andsee that they had everything they wanted. If they were younger, I might move them in with a relative or guardian. In that case, most of the teen's money would be "kept for them until they turned adult" (meaning I'd buy some statues and put them in their inventory, to be sold once they want to buy a house) with some given to the guardian to cover living expenses. Once they become an adult, they can either buy their old house back or buy a new house. In the second case, they'd have more money because their old house was "sold". If I really wanted them to have their old home and they didn't have enough money, I'd use the loan jar. In that case, their parents didn't leave them much money and they had to take out a loan for maintenance.

Quote:
According to the Prima Guide, any aspiration other than Family has a universal fear of having more than four kids. As always, take with a grain of salt.

Other than Romance sims who don't want children period (poor Antoine had to marry a family sim and she just keeps having them), I usually see that fear on sims that are close to becoming elders, especially for family sims. I guess they're afraid they won't live to see their children grow up?
Mad Poster
#17 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 9:22 AM
After the birth of the Ottomas quads, Samantha (family Sim) actually rolled a fear of having more kids. It's the first time I've seen it on a family Sim.

Meanwhile, Dora Ottomas rolled a want for even more grandkids. What the hell, grandma?

I'm secretly a Bulbasaur. | Formerly known as ihatemandatoryregister

Looking for SimWardrobe's mods? | Or Dizzy's? | Faiuwle/rufio's too! | smorbie1's Chris Hatch archives
Scholar
Original Poster
#18 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 10:33 AM
They also roll fears of having children when moving out from a house full of children. I've even family sims who fear it having "only" twins after they moved to a new house.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#19 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 11:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Ovenhole
Other than Romance sims who don't want children period


Give them family as a secondary and they may want kids.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#20 Old 25th Nov 2018 at 12:14 PM
Eh, it would be boring if everyone wanted the same thing.
Scholar
#21 Old 26th Nov 2018 at 5:22 AM
It really depends on the hood and the story. Usually I would either move them to an orphanage (sometimes boys and girls will go to separate orphanages) or give them a guardian. If I send them to an orphanage, I make sure everyone has their share of the household funds somehow. Christianlov's wallet controller is useful for that. In my current hood, I'm using Plantsims as guardians, since they have very few needs and can stay up all night with toddlers.

When I've played the Newsons without an adult in the household, I've usually imagined them trying to skate under the radar so they can stay together - what they're doing is illegal, but if they don't attract attention they might get away with it. Your children of deadbeat parents might do that, but if both parents are in jail the family has already come to the attention of the authorities, so I think they would have to have a court-appointed guardian or go into an orphanage.
Alchemist
#22 Old 26th Nov 2018 at 12:32 PM Last edited by Sunrader : 27th Nov 2018 at 12:09 AM.
Many of my teens, if I am playing them a lot, end up as InSim independents (Angela and Dustin have always been independent in my game), but I wouldn't normally have a pre-teen (or even a younger child) left alone, unless it was specifically meant to be some sort of tragic story where the child is homeless, a runaway, or abandoned, or the zombies have turned all the adults, or.... something. My Newson kids are alone and kids in the zombie world and some of the gypsy clan kids are alone in an itinerant camp where sometimes other unrelated adults come and go. The Newson kids, in one hood, ended up there and, once, everyone left and Gabriella was alone there, so I brought in my clone of a social worker because I wanted to split up the family at that time, so Gabriella went to live with my cloned SW/foster parent.

I like maximum freedom to do whatever my story requires, so I made the social worker playable and a social worker career where the SW advances into a foster parent, so I can have one for story if I want one (right now Jennifer Burb is a foster parent). She can go get kids by moving in and moving out with them (kids also keep their family ties this way, which I usually want) and then foster them herself instead of them going into oblivion, which I never liked. My in-game SW is modded out. I freely use InSim independent, sometimes even changing them back after it's needed, like the little Ottomas girl became independent long enough to have a baby but then reverted to teen, leaving baby with mom and dad, which seemed very realistic to me. Of course, I use BOs kids and pets unattended and toddlers on vacation.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 26th Nov 2018 at 1:23 PM
They live by themselves. Simple as that: besides the labour wage, they have means of earning money as much as any grown ups.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Forum Resident
#24 Old 26th Nov 2018 at 5:29 PM
You could do a foster care scenario where the children are sent to live with a couple or a single sim that's only going to take care of them until they're 18?

I'm going to second Jo here and say that in my game the teen stage only covers ages 13-18. At 18, any sims who are going to college go and (then the young adult stage covers 18-21 or 22). The child stage covers ages 4-12, so a 12 year old sim is still in the child stage, but is dressed older than a 5 year old sim who is also in the child stage. We can't really change heights so the clothes are how I tell the difference, and the same goes for teens.

That said, if I had a sim (and romance sims - like all other sims - can be wonderful parents in my hoods) who's parents were in prison or otherwise unable to take care of their children, I would 'take them into care'. I play at least a semi-realistic game too, so I have care centers where teens 13 and up live together in a group-home environment since it's harder to get teenagers adopted. Younger children, usually under 13 I have either in foster care with a convenient elder couple or, should they bond well with their foster family, they are then adopted.

Like Jo, I play a heavily modded game however, so I'm not sure how your set up will work. I have banned the social worker so that I could use my own. In my game the social worker is a sim with a degree in social work. They are identified by their accessory clip board, and when I have a household that needs watching, I might have them come round. If they happen to walk by the house I consider that an impromptu inspection, and if the parents are fighting with other sims in the neighbourhood, I roll a die to determine whether the social worker will turn up to check on the family. If a teen runs away, the social workers will come. If a child is failing and attending school with low bars, the social worker will come. And if a baby is left to cry with a smelly diaper and an orange portrait, the social worker will come. This way I don't lose children (and their memories) into the void, and I can structure the adoption and foster care process more realistically. Plus, it gives my elders something to do. They're extremely handy for raising children. The Goodies usually adopt the Newson Clan. Randomized elder townies are good matches for older teens as well, but usually it's only family sims that volunteer to foster, so options are limited for an added challenge.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#25 Old 26th Nov 2018 at 9:35 PM
I like that idea of how your playable social worker turns up. I haven't done anything like that, I might add it.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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