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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Jul 2018 at 7:56 PM
The Little Differences in TS3 and TS2 Sims- and Improvements
I'm looking to best emulate TS2's style of sims in TS3 (flat-ish textures but still a strong sense of style- basically "TS2 maxis match").

What are the subtle differences that make unmodded Sims 3 sims fall face first into the uncanny pudding valley, while unmodded Sims 2 sims are able to still feel stylized to this day?

I'm looking to make this a discussion and suggestion page for ways to get this look!

Comparisons
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Field Researcher
#2 Old 18th Jul 2018 at 11:08 PM
One of the things that's off about TS3 Bella is that she started in the child life stage. She was designed to look good, or at least more distinctive, as a child. Those features- like her eyes- get exaggerated when she ages up. That's the same with Arlo, the youngest Bunch boy: EA gave him an over exaggerated turned up nose and squared off jaw. That makes him more distinctive as a child but when he's an adult... the results are not pretty. The same thing happens with weight, muscle size, and chest size when a teen goes to adult. What looks good in one life stage will most likely look quite different when the sim ages up.

What I would recommend is that you determine what life stage your sim is going to be in for the longest amount of play time. When you create them in CAS, work on their face and body as that life stage then go back and select what age you want the sim to start as. OK, actually what I recommend is getting NRass Master Controller and tweaking the sim when they age up. (By the way, if you haven't gone to the NRaas site before, ignore the dire warning from Wikispaces. They won't be moving for a bit and have a plan for when they do.)

In general, I think the default EA faces are a little too much of everything: the heads are too wide, the eyes are too big and too far apart, the chins are too round, and the mouths are too curved. Specifically on Bella there, I would make her eyes smaller and closer together, shorten her eyelashes, slightly lower her cheek bones (plus filling her cheeks out so that they aren't so harsh), and make the corners of her mouth upturn less. Of course this is just me and I jumped from The Sims (1) to Sims 3 so I haven't spent much time looking at the designs for the sims in the second game.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#3 Old 18th Jul 2018 at 11:24 PM Last edited by jje1000 : 18th Jul 2018 at 11:41 PM.
One of things I notice in the images is that TS2 seems to rely more on textures to convey shape and contouring, whereas the TS3 base skin seems to have some level of sheen to it- which can unfortunately makes sims feel plasticky.

I think switching to an ultra-matte skin can already help a lot (i.e. Tamo's skin http://modthesims.info/d/415586), but the main problem I think still lies in the eyes- which tend to be too large in generated sims- I wonder if there might be ways of dealing with this through NRAAS + default replacements.

The second note is that I think that lighting in TS3 tends to be somewhat harsh and can dull skintones (plus the problem of no outdoor self-shadowing on some parts like the ears tips and lips)- this is a harder problem to deal with, unfortunately.
Forum Resident
#4 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 8:11 AM
The main problem that TS3 had with stylistic choices in regards to NPCs is that very little work was done on many of the sims in game to make them visually distinctive beyond having hideously over-exaggerated features. I don't mean having everyone be gorgeous, just proportionate and realistic while still being stylistic like TS2. Very little use was made of the sliders and there aren't really enough with just what the game provides to have much variation between sims. And don't even get me started on the clothing and makeup choices. Just take a look at any of the makeover threads and you'll see that the premades can look good with just some minor tweaks here and there, just takes a little dedication.

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Theorist
#5 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 9:38 AM
I agree with everything said. My Ts2 sims that I recreated in Ts3 were nowhere near as good as their older counterparts.
Bella being a perfect example of this. In Ts2 she was a stunner. In Ts3 she was just bang average.

#BlairWitchPetition
TS3 NEEDS: TENNIS COURTS > BUSES > PIGS/SHEEP
Can't find stuff in build and buy mode? http://www.nexusmods.com/thesims3/mods/1/?
Forum Resident
#6 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 10:37 AM
Quote: Originally posted by tizerist
I agree with everything said. My Ts2 sims that I recreated in Ts3 were nowhere near as good as their older counterparts.
Bella being a perfect example of this. In Ts2 she was a stunner. In Ts3 she was just bang average.

What a lot of people run into is the disconnect between CAS and what their sims actually appear like in-game, alongside other issues such as lighting. TS3 sims are going to have moments where they just appear ugly no matter how hard you try, but in one sense I guess you could say it mirrors reality in a way. Take photography. Bad lighting is a massive no-no in photography. If it's even a little bit off, it can ruin the quality.

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Mad Poster
#7 Old 20th Jul 2018 at 1:14 PM
Thing is that it's got everything to do with context and with lighting. Apply real-life principles to the game, and you won't have a problem taking nice shots of your Sims. Movies are lit in certain ways, and different genres are lit differently. Vox made a good video about why sitcoms all kind of look alike, and it's something worth trying in the game. If I see a moment I like, between two Sims or whatever, I usually add some quick invisible lights in Buy Mode to make it pop more. Then I take my shots and get rid of the lights.

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Field Researcher
#8 Old 22nd Jul 2018 at 11:34 PM
I realized I wall of texted. This is what I mean. In my opinion (of course):

EA default Child Bella looks distinctive (mostly) but her young adult stage is over exagerated:


The brief edit I did makes her (again, in my opinion) better looking as an adult but makes her more average looking as a child:


Also note, this is with mostly base game items (my fixed uses eyeshadow from Ambitions with a top and necklace from Late Night). There's a lot better, higher quality custom content out there. This is also with no lighting mods or custom skins on a rather meager computer. I also didn't do what Jathom95 and GrijzePilion said about better lighting, even though it's absolutely true.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#9 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 12:39 AM
I definitely appreciate your efforts (I was just using Bella as an example of a near default skin) but i feel like it's something to do with the skin and lighting, and less so with the actual sculpting itself.

Sims feel too flat for some reason compared to TS2, and I want to find ways of fixing it while bringing TS2's aesthetics to TS3.

Anyways, I'm going to be busy for a bit, but I've found some skins which I hope to experiment with and show later on.
Forum Resident
#10 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 6:15 AM
@jje1000 TS2 probably holds up so well in regards to the Sims because that's where the focus of the game was, the Sims themselves. When I used to play TS2 regularly, I could never find a custom skin that "fit" the game, they were either way too detailed for the rest of the game's aesthetic, reacted to lighting weirdly, or some other thing. TS3, by contrast, really emphasized and leaned toward a realistic aesthetic, plus the open world and multitude of things Sims could do rather than the Sims themselves. So, in that respect, less effort was put into the actual details of the Sims, such as the default skin. If you find a nice replacement skin, tweak the sculpting a bit (believe me it really helps more than you think), and overall just small tweaks here and there, you'll find that you have some pretty nice puddings.

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Mad Poster
#11 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 6:28 AM
Except for the issues of the cotton candy hair, I have had some very good looking male and female sims in 3. I definitely prefer them to the ones in 2. I enjoyed playing the sims in 2 back when I played that version, but I will pick the sims in 3 over 2 any day. There were a heck of a lot of fish faces in 2. But yes, there are some darn bad sims in 3 also. We just need to play in CAS to get what we want.
Forum Resident
#12 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 6:36 AM
Quote: Originally posted by daisylee
Except for the issues of the cotton candy hair, I have had some very good looking male and female sims in 3. I definitely prefer them to the ones in 2. I enjoyed playing the sims in 2 back when I played that version, but I will pick the sims in 3 over 2 any day. There were a heck of a lot of fish faces in 2. But yes, there are some darn bad sims in 3 also. We just need to play in CAS to get what we want.

My thoughts exactly. TS2 still holds up nicely because of its gameplay mostly, but I don't ever think I'd prefer the actual Sims anymore. There's just too much about them that looks and feels dated. To me, that's the beauty of TS3, you can make your Sims as realistic or stylized as you like, and literally no two people have the same method of creating their Sims. That's also why I don't really care for TS4's Sims either, alongside other issues I have with the game itself. It's very obvious that they set up CAS in TS4 to create supermodels by default every time by randomizing, and it takes some serious dedication to make unique looking or quirky sims. Just take a look at any Sims posted to the Gallery, it's the same style everywhere and just feels incredibly homogenized.

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Scholar
#13 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 11:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
My thoughts exactly. TS2 still holds up nicely because of its gameplay mostly, but I don't ever think I'd prefer the actual Sims anymore. There's just too much about them that looks and feels dated. To me, that's the beauty of TS3, you can make your Sims as realistic or stylized as you like, and literally no two people have the same method of creating their Sims. That's also why I don't really care for TS4's Sims either, alongside other issues I have with the game itself. It's very obvious that they set up CAS in TS4 to create supermodels by default every time by randomizing, and it takes some serious dedication to make unique looking or quirky sims. Just take a look at any Sims posted to the Gallery, it's the same style everywhere and just feels incredibly homogenized.

What part of the sims in Sims 2 do you feel look outdated? Are you talking about the 3d models or those old textures?
Forum Resident
#14 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 2:58 PM
I think that TS3 male Sims can be far more attractive then TS4 male Sims. You do need to use custom sliders though, imo.
Forum Resident
#15 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 3:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Squidconqueror
What part of the sims in Sims 2 do you feel look outdated? Are you talking about the 3d models or those old textures?

A little bit of both actually. The models of the Sims themselves are ok, but there's really not much room for variation. There's not much in the way of sliders, and the faces are fairly low poly anyway. Same exact body presets for every Sim. The clothes themselves and many of the hairstyles are a product of the time, that early 2000s look. Not to mention the fact you can't even choose what shoes go with your outfit, just stuck with whatever comes attached to the lower part.

The skin is what I have the least issue with because, as I've stated previously, I believe it fits the game's aesthetic, and I was never able to find a replacement that I felt fit with the rest of the game.

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Mad Poster
#16 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 5:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
A little bit of both actually. The models of the Sims themselves are ok, but there's really not much room for variation. There's not much in the way of sliders, and the faces are fairly low poly anyway. Same exact body presets for every Sim. The clothes themselves and many of the hairstyles are a product of the time, that early 2000s look. Not to mention the fact you can't even choose what shoes go with your outfit, just stuck with whatever comes attached to the lower part.

I'm fairly alright with creating Sims. I've played each of the Sims games enough to be able to create diverse and interesting-looking Sims. But I've never quite managed to do it in TS2, they always look the same for me. And the clothes.......oh god those clothes.....

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Forum Resident
#17 Old 23rd Jul 2018 at 5:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
I'm fairly alright with creating Sims. I've played each of the Sims games enough to be able to create diverse and interesting-looking Sims. But I've never quite managed to do it in TS2, they always look the same for me. And the clothes.......oh god those clothes.....

I realize you were speaking of Sims that you create personally, but I think it's mostly because TS2 Sims were always defined by their personal histories and backstories to make them stand out rather than looks anyway. The memory system, for instance, so intricate and detailed and really made it feel like a Sim's life events affected them. And even as far as looks go, they did have character if nothing else. Nina and Dina might have just been base presets with a few tweaks to the nose, but you always knew it was them walking by.

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Scholar
#18 Old 24th Jul 2018 at 2:56 PM
let's agree we do not speak about sims' fashion, it was always , well "questionable".

both games are built aroud different design choices - Sims 2, with all its engine limitations is a game which is "fully aware" of its artificiality and cartoonish design is something which defends the game's creators' choices in the long run. That design choice makes any attempt to use "realistical skin" seriously creepy at the moment when sim makes any face expression.

The expressions are a good example btw. S2 aknowledges its own limitations and instead denying them: uses it as an advantage. The game is by design exaggerated, ridiculous, full of absurd and hilarious animations and sims' expressions (including idles) have been made exactly that way.

The Sims 3 it's different story. It tries to be "realistic" with not the best results because of numerous shortcomings. My personal pet pevees are idles and facial expressions. Both tends to be completely out of place considering that "attempt to realism", which is annoying and sad, really: just look at the level of face expressions from Half-Life 2 (a game from 2004). Sims in S3 in comparisation are just creepy, not even funny (and don't even start with S4). The problem with the game is that it tries hard in large areas (open world, "realism" in presentation etc.) and fails because of cuts, shortcomings or bad design of its own barebones. It does not mean that it's "just bad". It's different.

That said - I play both and appreciate both for their particular merits. I'd say moving or recreating particular premades from S2 to S3 has not really much sense. Bella or Mortimer (just for example) from S2 shall never become "themselves" in S3. These're different games, different worlds. Different designs.


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Field Researcher
#19 Old 25th Jul 2018 at 3:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jje1000
I definitely appreciate your efforts (I was just using Bella as an example of a near default skin) but i feel like it's something to do with the skin and lighting, and less so with the actual sculpting itself.


Sorry to misunderstand what you're looking for. Default replacement skins will help with what the actual skin looks like but if you want to change the way light and shadows look in your game, you'll need a lighting mod. Those can make a dramatic difference but may be taxing on your computer.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#20 Old 25th Jul 2018 at 4:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tacitala
Sorry to misunderstand what you're looking for. Default replacement skins will help with what the actual skin looks like but if you want to change the way light and shadows look in your game, you'll need a lighting mod. Those can make a dramatic difference but may be taxing on your computer.


The thing is that weather/lighting mods change the colors of the light itself, but not the way the light interacts with the sims- shadowing is always kind of an issue as sims don't self-shadow well, and the shadows that appear are somewhat harsh and desaturated.

I wonder if sim lighting in TS2 and TS4 is softer, which might help with stylization.
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