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Old 26th Sep 2013, 11:52 PM #76
Lab Assistant

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

Originally Posted by Mai2008
Why do we have to marry townies?

I have no idea =/ I can't see anything in the rules that says WHY they must be townies, just that they must, so I guess it's just personal preference?

I've played through two weeks each so far, that's including "peace week" before the war, and so far my sims have been extraordinarily lucky! No job loss, no drafteds, no killed in action... dang now they're all going to die aren't they

What interested me was how different the two families play, my Patriots are cruising through their job, you know how every time a sim gets promoted they go straight into another day and get another promotion? Meanwhile my Subversives have barely gone to work at all, when they do they get a day off following which then puts them back another day because they weren't at work... they really are reluctant about the war! XD

Old 28th Sep 2013, 9:29 PM #77
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 70

Wow, what a thought out challenge. I have created my couple and have decided that they will be subversives. I don't understand why the males in this category would need to reach general in the Military. That doesn't make sense to me if they are trying to stay out of the war and be activists. Love the creative work you have put into this challenge and I think I'm going to create two families and give them equal time. One is for the war and one is against it and see who wins. Also maybe allow a little drama happen between the families.
Old 28th Sep 2013, 9:50 PM #78
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 200
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I think i may -BEND- that rule slightly until explained further. I don't need to yet. Only just got through first week because I play really slowly, and I still have to get through a week of the patriots! But never mind, all the more time for cute kid making :D

Always remember that you are absolutely unique.
Just like everyone else.
-Margaret Mead
Old 28th Sep 2013, 10:36 PM #79
Lab Assistant

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 70

Okay after reading all the comments I've decided to take some ideas that people have added and put a twist on them. I love the idea of weekly bombings for the community lots. I have decided that each career is attached to a community lot. So for instance, a sim in the law enforcement career would create a police station. While that career is active (frome level 1 till the sim reaches the top) the sims in their homes can use a house alarm for in case of thefts and police will come to the rescue. Now if that community lot is bombed during the weekly raid not only does the sim in the law enforcement die but then there is no protection from criminals. Another instance would be when a sim enters the educational career. That sim would make a school. The children can go to school by bus everyday. Then let's say the school was bombed. Then the sim in the educational career would die and the children too or you could roll to see who attended class that day. Then from then on until another entered the education career the kids would stay home. If the sim in the education career made it to top of the career then a uni can be built but it can be added to the bombing roll. Another would be the court house for a sim who enters the law career. Medicine for the hospital and all sick would die without someone in the medicine career but once the hospital is around they can be heal but would die in the bombing. Someone can also that isn't a heir be a fire fighter and have a fire hall. If it is bombed no more rescues from fire.

hopefully that makes sense.
Old 29th Sep 2013, 10:09 AM #80
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

Originally Posted by Satrina
I don't understand why the males in this category would need to reach general in the Military. That doesn't make sense to me if they are trying to stay out of the war and be activists.

This made me think about that rule! You mean for the subversives, right? I did think maybe it wasn't necessary and decided to just get to a certain level; but then on second thoughts I realise the challenge is to complete certain jobs, so if they don't go through the Military requirement first then the subversives could potentially skip ahead, a bit of an unfair advantage. So saying though as it's a lot about luck that might be a completely invalid point, especially as from the second generation onwards if the teens go on to uni they can skip the military entirely. I think I'm just confusing myself (and probably everyone)

Anyone else got a view on this?

I think at least for the founder/first generation I'll have the men suffer right through the ranks, as I said above the teens can skip that step by going to uni.

Old 29th Sep 2013, 11:51 AM #81

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 531
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Originally Posted by Satrina
I don't understand why the males in this category would need to reach general in the Military. That doesn't make sense to me if they are trying to stay out of the war and be activists.

Originally Posted by taliahneth
Anyone else got a view on this?

Well, what I get out of the challenge is that the subversives need to hide from the government, and all males are drafted into service for x number of 'years' before they can get a normal job. So the military career until general equals the draft time, and the subversives need to answer the draft or they're sure to be discovered. That's the in-game explanation I see.

For gameplay, I do think it's to make sure the subversives don't have an unfair advantage.
Old 29th Sep 2013, 6:52 PM #82
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 70

yes seems that university time equals military time getting up in ranks to general. So I guess the subversives get smarter in figuring out how to keep their kids from the war.

I think getting up to General is a long time. Are most sim men going to die then? I had one die off the first day of the roll. I'm considering making it a bit easier saying they only have to get to junior officer and then if they are recalled in to service then they start at that point and then get up to general if they can.
Old 2nd Oct 2013, 4:17 AM #83
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 70

refox: good idea on printing it out. it was like 9 pages but totally worth it. I feel I have a much better handle on it.

I decided to go with two families. One patriotic and the other subversive. I've decided to have my families have as many kids they can since it seems that would be the best to make sure there is a heir that survives. Also thinking in the future that if say the parents are killed one of the "extras" can move back in the house to take care of the kids till they grow up.

Anyways, loving this challenge.
Old 2nd Oct 2013, 8:26 PM #84
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Posts: 70

Okay, I am back again. So my Patriotic family had all boys! 4 of them. The father had to do two tours in the military but he became a senior during the second one so I decided that the military would retire him and sent him back home. Oh! yes I should add that I make them move to a military base when they are drafted. I also have a hide out in the forest for those who are discovered. For my patriotic family the mother had just conceived but wasn't showing yet and I rolled for her and she was drafted. I decided to fudge though since I think the military wouldn't be interested in a pregnant lady.

Now the first teen has moved out to the military base. My question is though since he is a teen he will only be able to do the teen career path in the military. So that leaves him waiting out his teen years at the top level he can achieve till he is adult. Seems all the boys are destined to die. Thankfully my subversive family had two girls but the dad died and since girls are the best I never felt the mom needed to find another mate. Also during war times I think there aren't that many men to go around so I doubt she would have luck finding one.

Really enjoying this challenge and boy is it a challenge. The patriotic family because of the all boys the mother has not really gone anywhere in her career and the father was spending much time in the military. Now all the boys are going to do that too so I don't hold out much hope for that family. My other family the mom is so close to achieving her career. She has just been lucky in the rolls. The girls are teens but no worries there and I have a mate picked out for my heir already and they are best friends. So far they seem to be in the lead.
Old 3rd Oct 2013, 12:29 AM #85
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

Originally Posted by Satrina
For my patriotic family the mother had just conceived but wasn't showing yet and I rolled for her and she was drafted. I decided to fudge though since I think the military wouldn't be interested in a pregnant lady.

I thought something similar. While my females are pregnant I don't even roll for them. I'm also having all kids be "extras" in case the heir falls, doesn't make sense to me to just leave them hanging around, but I'm only aiming for 3 kids max to keep it simple.

Looks like you're having fun! I've been lucky - or my die is broken - nothing's happened and I'm in my third week, no deaths, no drafts (still) XD and my subversive is still reluctant to advance in his career. Still having fun though! Looking forward to ticking some of those career boxes off.

Old 3rd Oct 2013, 5:50 PM #86
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 70

You have been lucky! I have had three deaths so far. Both teens who were shipped off to the military base and one of the original fathers. I really am fearful that the patriotic family will experience having all their children die since they are all boys. Since they have to go through their teen years in the military before they can work past recruit. Then all that time getting to General I am sure you will roll an unlucky roll at least once. It's quite a challenge. I do like how it's a blessing to have a girl! ha ha.

If you have the mother spend all her time making babies she has not much chance to accomplish the top of her career. However, if the father is in the military for half his life skilling for that specific career to get to General he doesn't have much time either. I think this could be a very long challenge. I've always had a problem killing sims since I get so attached. However, this is all down to luck and out of my control.

Interesting challenge. Can't wait to see it a couple generations in. I am hoping that my Patriotic family will survive. Maybe if I have the mother adopt as a Senior she would get a girl? Wonder if that is allowed to carry on the family or not.
Old 25th Jan 2017, 8:02 PM #87

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 604

Oh dear, another really cool challenge with little attention. I guess Sims2 is loosing players to the newer additions?

I just started to play this (parallel to deciphering real-world filed post, btw, talk about macabre) and just reached the end of the first week of war. I already added my own "let's do it differntly" twist:

1/6 chances to lose your subversives / soldiers every second day? You're lucky if they make it through the first week. Surely survival chances in war aren't quite as arbitrary as that? So, here goes:

for soldiers: every point gained in mechanical and athletic skill adds one side to the die, so if a soldier has 1 point each in mechanical and athletic skill, I cast a seven-sided die. Two points in both mechanical and athletic skill? Now it's an eight-sided die.

for suversives: charm, brazeness and attention to fine details are what will get you through dangerous situations. So, cleaning and charisma skill up their survival chances.

"I hate to tell you this..." is a dreadful way to start a sentence. Don't do something you hate to do for my sake, I'm not that important.
Old 4th Jul 2017, 10:32 PM #88
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 119
1 Achievements

Oh wow, I love this and am off to play it forthwith (by which I mean I've already started on my families - using mangaroo's idea of running one patriot & one subversive family - but the war hasn't begun for them yet).

Staying drafted until reaching General seems like it could be awkwardly long, and also not particularly representative of a real draft, so I'm thinking of instead forcing drafted sims to stay in the military for a certain period of time (maybe 2 seasons?) to represent a specified "tour of duty", & then they get to leave. Similarly, subversive sims who get discovered will have to stay in criminal for the same time period, after which their arrest warrant expires or something & they can come out of hiding. But I'm adding military & criminal to the list of careers that need to be cleared for patriots & subversives respectively, so they'll still need to have someone reach the top.

I also liked mangaroo's idea of lifting restrictions with each career unlocked, but wanted to tie this in more closely to the idea of this being subversives vs. patriots, so each career unlocked will either benefit the side that unlocked it, or hinder the opposing side in some manner (with two exceptions - each group has one career that benefits both sides when unlocked). I'm starting with university locked (as per mangaroo - it's a waste of resources that could go to the war effort and a breeding ground for potential subversives!), and with Politics careers locked to all sims, as the politicians that started the war are now too deeply entrenched in power to hire anyone outside of their inner circles.

Here's what I've got so far, subject to change as the war hasn't started yet! Feedback appreciated...


Criminal - After becoming a leader of the criminal underworld, you know just about everything there is to know on avoiding detection while breaking the law. You share this knowledge with your friends and family, too.
The risk of discovery is halved for all subversives.

Architecture - You got into this job to help rebuild your city after a series of particularly devastating bombing raids, and you've done that, but you've also learned a lot of the city's secrets. From disused warehouses to old metro tunnels that don't appear on modern maps, you know a lot of places to hide.
The risk of capture is halved for all subversives within the criminal career.

Law - Your arguments for fairer punishments have finally been heeded, and the government has all but stopped its practice of executing subversives, preferring prison over capital punishment. There's even a chance of receiving a pardon, now.
Instead of being killed, captured subversives are now moved to a prison location. Once per season, the prisoner with the highest influence is pardoned and may rejoin their family.

Music - Your concerts whip audiences into a frenzy, ready to riot against the unjust system. The government is taking notice, and quietly preparing for the possibility of civil war. This can only mean one thing: more soldiers.
The risk of being drafted is doubled for all patriots.

Journalism - The government might try to suppress your subversive newspaper, but those who truly care about knowledge will always find ways to access it. They might even find themselves swayed by the persuasive arguments within its pages.
Any patriot who reaches adulthood with the knowledge aspiration immediately "switches sides" and becomes a subversive. They may serve as a spouse for an existing subversive heir, be treated as a spare heir, or become the heir outright if no suitable subversive-born heir exists. Note this only applies to sims for whom knowledge is a primary aspiration, not a secondary one.

Education - As Minister for Education, you manage to make a convincing case for the value of higher education. With a need for well-trained scientists, medics and intelligence officers, the government finally concedes that a university may in fact help them achieve their goals in war.
University is unlocked for all sims.

Art - Your paintings change the hearts and minds of the populace at large. They're finally willing to listen to what the subversives have to say - they may even be willing to vote for an anti-war politician.
Subversives may enter the political career track.

Politics - You crush your political rivals, those war-mongering patriots, and enact sweeping changes that you hope will build a brighter future for generations to come.
Patriot sims in the political career must skip work for the rest of the season (those who are less well-established in the career may well lose their jobs as a result of this; as they are unseated in various elections). You may also enact any one law of your choosing, adding or removing a challenge rule.


Military - As a general, your command of strategy is excellent. You know how to achieve more with fewer soldiers, and are able to relax the draft a little.
The risk of being drafted is halved for all patriots.

Science - From camouflage to armour to methods of remote warfighting, your technologies keep soldiers safe in the field of battle.
The risk of death is halved for all drafted patriots.

Medicine - You establish frontline hospitals where even the worst injuries can be treated. You are able to rehabilitate many soldiers who would have once died of their wounds.
Instead of being killed, drafted patriots who roll the death risk are now moved to a hospital location. Once per season, the hospital patient with the highest number of aspiration points is successfully rehabilitated and may rejoin their family.

Intelligence - You have eyes and ears everywhere, and are able to root out many more subversives.
The risk of being discovered (NOT captured) is doubled for all subversives.

Business - The real money's in backing the war, and thanks to you everyone knows it. Anyone who cares about making it rich had better get alongside.
Any subversive who reaches adulthood with the fortune aspiration immediately "switches sides" and becomes a patriot. They may serve as a spouse for an existing patriot heir, be treated as a spare heir, or become the heir outright if no suitable patriot-born heir exists. Note this only applies to sims for whom fortune is a primary aspiration, not a secondary one.

Law Enforcement - The home front is just as important as the foreign one, and you are able to convince your government that police officers are almost as vital as soldiers. That said, it's a darn sight safer being a police officer.
Teenage males must still undergo the draft, but may now be drafted into Law Enforcement careers as an alternative to the military. Teenagers in the Law Enforcement career do not roll for the risk of death. Note that adult patriots who roll the draft risk must still join the military as before.

Show Business - Nothing like good old propaganda to help the war effort. Your films of war heroism prove very popular - the people just love their heroes. So much so, they've even started clamouring for those same war heroes to enter political office.
Patriots may enter the political career track.

Politics - You crush your political rivals, those dangerous subversives, and enact sweeping changes that you hope will finally be the key to winning this war.
Subversive sims in the political career must skip work for the rest of the season (those who are less well-established in the career may well lose their jobs as a result of this; as they are unseated in various elections). You may also enact any one law of your choosing, adding or removing a challenge rule.
Old 30th Mar 2018, 5:46 PM #89
Test Subject

Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1

I don't know, if people still look at this, but I really like this challenge. I'm gonna try it out and post about it on my new blog. You can read it here, if you want: https://rosecoloredgamer.weebly.com/blog
If you check it out, please leave a comment, I'd really appreciate it.
Old 10th Sep 2018, 2:21 AM #90
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Thanks: 342 in 1 Posts
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I've tweaked this a little and started playing with 1 subversive and one patriot family.
The Patriot family - Bannington
Founders Agustus and Emery Bannington.
Augustus Made his way to general and them switch fields to Intelligence. He is currently a double agent.
Emery has become captain hero. (Her superhero name is Hawkflame)
Their son Benji married a girl named Eunice. Benji went to college so he is working his way up in the medical career. He's currently a surgeon.
Eunice just got drafted and has worked her way up to sr. officer. They have a toddler named Ike.
Their daughter Francine is in college. (She is both gay and destined to be witch so is out of the running for heir.

The Subversive family - Carlisle
Betty Carlilse met her love Elle Alioto at Uni. She was the coach that encourages them to work out. They had several children (most due t a same sex pregnancy mod, I'm considering it a black market IVF.
Edna- adopted before the war - she eventually joined a commune like cult and is busy churning out babies.
Ali Alioto - The hier
Charlene Carlise - Knowledged sim. based on her LTW she wanted to be a patriot, fell in love and married a guy named Salmon.
Darlene Alioto- Family sims Fell in love with Tamara King and have an apartment and a baby on the way
Damion Alioto - a family sims, fell in love and married a girl named Trim Savane. Had twins, Nepolean and Nikita.

Betty was discovered early on and became a criminal mastermind (Her alter ego is called Techno Shriek). She then entered politics after Elle was captured and executed by drowning. She eventually became mayor. And is permaplat because she's maxed her skills.
She remarried Gordon Wolesko who is working as a wedding photographer.

Ali found love with Craig Ray. Ali was discovered before Craig moved in so was working in criminal already. He just became a criminal mastermind. (His alter ego is called Deathspark) Craig is a teacher's aide.
Ali gave birth to JaCraig Alioto

Every time a sim reaches captain hero or criminal mastermind I make them a super identity. I'm going to have a town full of supers when I'm done. Mostly villains.
Old 22nd Sep 2018, 6:16 PM #91
Field Researcher

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 293
1 Achievements

As much as I like diversifying my game play, I can't bring myself to kill my CAS Sims, or any of my playable Maxis Sims. Sadly, I think I'll just set this one out if you don't mind. I can't bring myself to kill Jill Smith, Julian Cooke, etc.

Well thought out though.
Old 23rd Oct 2018, 12:07 AM #92
Test Subject

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7

Trying to keep this up, and also wondering if others ideas of having a town made (I'm doing a prosperity challenge) and going to see how well it gets made into this challenge. Since I haven't seen any links here.
Going to play this out hopefully within the next year!
After being a lurker for 6 months lol
Old 24th Oct 2018, 8:21 PM #93

Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 946
1 Achievements

I played this a few years ago but I restarted it recently with some increased-challenge mods and rulesets and a few changes to the challenge rules.

Instead of one family, I decided to start out with 4 singles for each faction and, since I'm a stickler for sychronized aging, play all of the playables instead of using legacy style. Most of the founders are currently married and/or have at least one child; one subversive hasn't been able to conceive the entire time though - I'm worried that she might die without any descendants. The patriots have a bit of an advantage with 3 extremely active female descendants to carry on the fight against both the subversives and zombies. Yeah, I turned this into a zombie apocalypse conspiracy story too.

I thought that needing to top the military and criminal careers in order to find another was excessive - and it's near impossible to do so if you play without aspiration rewards and with motivation levels, skill limits, harder skilling mods, and education-based career limits. I'd prefer that sims top Intelligence and Law before their comrades can take up other careers once drafted or discovered, however, so I haven't actually made up my mind about this particular rule.

I liked mangaroo and cakeninja's ideas about having each career lift or impose restrictions, so I incorporated variations of them into my gameplay, as well as some other ideas previously posted, like letting boys join the military after a certain age instead of right off the bat as teens. I also opted to weigh patriots' mechanical and athletic skills and subversives' charisma and cleaning skills to their survival chances to at least even the odds.

No patriots have died and no subversives have been discovered yet, but the patriots have had several close calls. All four of them barely survived the first waves of attack and narrowly escaped patriot spies, while three of the subversives lost their homes to the initial siege. The main problem the subversives currently face is somehow plain survival - three of them were hit hard by the attack and don't have much in the way of funds. Soldiers and patriots get an advantage with their military backing (at the risk of death) but nobody else does, so if the patriots don't stomp out the subversives, starvation will at this point.

I predict that this challenge is going to be a long one, yet that's probably what's going to keep it alive for me.
Old 25th Nov 2018, 6:12 AM
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