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Old 9th Feb 2014, 5:58 PM #176
AzemOcram
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In Washington, medical marjuana is tax-free while recreational marijuana is taxed heavily. Posession of a small amount is legal as is growing (if you have a license).

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Old 9th Feb 2014, 10:38 PM #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levini
You do make that valid point on that, Let me see if I can find a refrence to it because I remembered an article or something appearing somewhere that talked specifically about how legalization would not improve the situation.
http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/arti...-the-total-pots
http://thegrio.com/2014/01/06/break...lack-americans/

To me, I believe that legalization would not improve any racism, rather it would only serve to sweep it under the rug. I am on the thought of how will they be able to make the legal side of the Weed market grow and survive and flourish like we all predict if the street market still exists. Thinking along the line of Colorado's high prices and sales taxes, which pushed a lot of people out of the legal market, you can see where I feel that the legalization would still be racially and socioeconomically biased to only protect those of upper classes and in some senses whites, because let's face it, can you afford 500+25% sales tax ($625+, cause that may depend on other factors) and if you can't where will you want to go? The street market, which is unbound by regulation can sell it a lot cheaper, but they are criminalized. What we are doing is creating a racially biased and segregated system where if you can afford it you can have it legally without reprocussions whilst if you can't you are still gonna go to jail for illegal possession, and let's face it, the arrest rates will still be disproportionate. Honestly I would rather keeping pot illegal for all than to create a class based racially imbalanced system that is endorsed by governments.


Honestly, those two articles (one of which draws on the other as a source) sound to me like alarmist nonsense. The recreational pot stores in Colorado have been open barely over a month, and based on that these writers know the entire future of the legal marijuana trade. Right.

Prices are high now because these stores are facing heavy startup costs (licencing, costs of raising the stuff, beside the normal expenses of any startup), plus they have a very difficult situation with cash flow (because of Federal laws most banks won't do business with them and they have to conduct a cash business, with all the associated risks and security expenses). And since there are relatively few vendors and they're stuck with a legal requirement at present to only sell pot grown for medicinal purposes, the supply is low and free enterprise being what it is, they've jacked up prices.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/high-..._b_4550666.html

But prices will come down if demand stays high (lol) and with a better supply and more competition, that's simple economics. My own prediction is that fairly soon illegal pot will be priced out of the market, not to mention the advantages of safety and purity.

And as Hugbug said, people have the option of growing their own.

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Old 10th Feb 2014, 4:11 AM #178
GabyBee
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Marijuana should be legalized because it makes life so much funnier. Not for the person getting high. But for those of us who get to watch people who smoke pot say and do the funniest things ever. Por ejemplo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJynLFgXUN4

"I don't know. We made brownies. And I think we're dead."

Life is too short to make the thing that causes ^^that^^ illegal.
Old 4th May 2014, 11:02 PM #179
tjthecreator
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YAAAAAAAAAS. Weed makes life fun! I mean why not, right? If we can have alcohol & tobacco, then we can have weed. & just like those 2 it can have it's own laws like age limit and other stuff like that.. so let's have fun and smoke it uppppp!
Old 7th May 2014, 5:53 PM #180
AzemOcram
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I still think there should be laws against public intoxication of marijuana and laws against smoking it in public buildings. There needs to be a good test on blood-thc level when driving. Marijuana is somewhat less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes combined but it still impairs judgment and no one likes second-hand smoke.

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Old 11th May 2014, 9:12 AM #181
Saturnfly
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Yes I believe it should be legal. It has been shown to be helpful for cancer patients and people in pain (even kids). I think a lot of people focus on the "it's bad for your lungs!" problem, when they seem to forget that smoking is just one of the many ways you can use it.

Compared to regular tobacco, it is much coarser on the lungs since it lacks all the added chemicals they put in cigarettes to make them easier to smoke, that doesn't mean smoking cigarettes is better for you, or that smoking weed all the time is also good for you, because it's not. But I have to be honest, I'd rather people smoke weed and chill out rather than get drunk every Saturday which is what happens where I live. Weed has a lot less destructive consequences than stuff like alcohol. People don't really get aggressive when they're high.

Of course it isn't safe for everyone, when I mentioned kids earlier, that was an opinion based on a documentary I watched where kids were prescribed weed (in tablet form) to help with their recovery from cancer.
People with mental illnesses such as depression and schizophrenia should be careful, but then that's true of a lot of things. Even having a really poor diet can do more harm to your body and mental wellbeing than the use of weed.

I went through an extremely painful miscarriage last year and smoked weed for the first time. It helped a lot with the pain (which forced me to be hospitalized) as well as chilled me out since it was quite a traumatic experience. I think people should have more rights when it comes to the use of weed since it is much safer than alternatives like synthetic legal highs which have proven to be way worse.
Just my 2c.
Old 11th May 2014, 10:28 AM #182
crocobaura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturnfly
Yes I believe it should be legal. It has been shown to be helpful for cancer patients and people in pain (even kids). I think a lot of people focus on the "it's bad for your lungs!" problem, when they seem to forget that smoking is just one of the many ways you can use it.

Compared to regular tobacco, it is much coarser on the lungs since it lacks all the added chemicals they put in cigarettes to make them easier to smoke, that doesn't mean smoking cigarettes is better for you, or that smoking weed all the time is also good for you, because it's not. But I have to be honest, I'd rather people smoke weed and chill out rather than get drunk every Saturday which is what happens where I live. Weed has a lot less destructive consequences than stuff like alcohol. People don't really get aggressive when they're high.

Of course it isn't safe for everyone, when I mentioned kids earlier, that was an opinion based on a documentary I watched where kids were prescribed weed (in tablet form) to help with their recovery from cancer.
People with mental illnesses such as depression and schizophrenia should be careful, but then that's true of a lot of things. Even having a really poor diet can do more harm to your body and mental wellbeing than the use of weed.

I went through an extremely painful miscarriage last year and smoked weed for the first time. It helped a lot with the pain (which forced me to be hospitalized) as well as chilled me out since it was quite a traumatic experience. I think people should have more rights when it comes to the use of weed since it is much safer than alternatives like synthetic legal highs which have proven to be way worse.
Just my 2c.



It seems that everyone who wants marijuana for recreational purposes puts forth some medical reasons why it should be made legal. There are legal alternatives for pain management, without the high side effect, if maijuana were that great at reducing pain it would have been made legal long ago and you could buy it from a pharmacy like every other medication out there.
Old 11th May 2014, 2:05 PM #183
Mistermook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
It seems that everyone who wants marijuana for recreational purposes puts forth some medical reasons why it should be made legal. There are legal alternatives for pain management, without the high side effect, if maijuana were that great at reducing pain it would have been made legal long ago and you could buy it from a pharmacy like every other medication out there.

It was legal long ago. It's only been relatively recently that it was made illegal. It's a plant. It's not like it's some great invention of the 20th Century. People have been using Cannabis for centuries. If they were using it less than might be apparent in the past, it's only because in the past they also had opium freely available and legal.
Old 11th May 2014, 9:36 PM #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistermook
It was legal long ago. It's only been relatively recently that it was made illegal. It's a plant. It's not like it's some great invention of the 20th Century. People have been using Cannabis for centuries. If they were using it less than might be apparent in the past, it's only because in the past they also had opium freely available and legal.


People didn't use cannabis or opium to get high every other day long ago, so there was no need to legislate.
Old 12th May 2014, 3:32 AM #185
Saturnfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
It seems that everyone who wants marijuana for recreational purposes puts forth some medical reasons why it should be made legal. There are legal alternatives for pain management, without the high side effect, if maijuana were that great at reducing pain it would have been made legal long ago and you could buy it from a pharmacy like every other medication out there.


I was on about 5 different pain meds, all of which did absolutely nothing for me. Everyone is different though, pain is all in the head and tolerance varies greatly. I like to think I have a fairly high tolerance for pain, but that sort of pain while I was miscarrying had me passing out/ going into shock. I remember staring at my partner with my eyes really wide and was unable to do or say anything. At the hospital I was given morphine which also didn't help much just made me so out of it I couldn't complain about the pain, but when I got home and was still in a fair amount of pain and took codeine which causes really bad constipation (TMI lol) as well as these freaky waking-nightmare things which made it really difficult to sleep. I eventually tried marijuana and it really took the edge off and I was able to just sleep everything off.

As I said, everyone is different, but I think people should be given a choice. Taking marijuana in pill/ tea form is far safer than a lot of pain meds (especially the opiates which you can become addicted/ dependent on)

*edited to add* I haven't used it since then and don't plan on it at all for recreational purposes. I enjoy life clear-headed.
Old 12th May 2014, 3:20 PM #186
Mistermook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
People didn't use cannabis or opium to get high every other day long ago, so there was no need to legislate.


Uh, I think you're mistaking your history for something that wasn't actually the way things were. People were using cannabis and opium regularly pretty much as soon as those things became available. Drugs and alcohol play an enormous role in history, if not one that make it directly into mainstream history books all the time.
Old 12th May 2014, 5:46 PM #187
hugbug993
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Hah.

Opium has a long, fascinating, and bloody history. It was first cultivated in early Mesopotamia, mentioned as soma in the Rig Veda. The text is dated at ~1500 BCE, though it's a collection of oral history. It had a variety of uses: mixed with poison hemlock to create a painless poison, soaking sponges in it for anesthetics in surgery, and even fed to babies to stop them from crying.

Eventually, it made its way to the Islamic world, where it was used primarily as an anesthetic and anti-depressant. In fact, in a home medical manual for self treatment (Fi ma-la-yahdara al-tabib, "In the Absence of a Physician") opium was encouraged in self-medication. From there, it traveled to China and the Western world. In the US in the late nineteenth century, there were between 150,000 and 200,000 opium addicts living at a time.

Laudanum is opium combined with alcohol. It was also encouraged for self-medication to relieve pain, induce sleep, for mental health, and for overall good health. It could also be used as part of a dysentery and diarrhea cure. Laudanum was actually cheaper than gin and wine, since it was taxed as medicine and not as alcohol. It was also frequently fed to infants.

When the drug moved to China, that's where things get interesting. It was commonly used as a male enhancement drug. In sex, it was used to heighten orgasm and prevent premature ejaculation.
They began mixing it with tobacco - the mixture was called madak - but in 1729, it was banned. Then they began smoking pure opium. They carried this practice with them to the western world, in the form of smoking and opium dens. This quickly fed into the Yellow Peril propaganda, which characterized the Chinese as trying to weaken them through immoral behavior. Opium dens quickly got a bad reputation, with gambling, violence, and slavery supposedly going on.

Ironically, opium was used to weaken a country - but the West did it to the Chinese. Europe had been trading with China for a long time, but they realized that the silver was only going one way. Europeans were buying Asian commodities, but China wasn't doing the same and they were only accepting silver, which led to a deficit. So they decided to send opium over.
The flow of silver reversed, but the Qing dynasty objected. They were experiencing a series of rebellions and needed the money to finance increased military action. They tried to cut off the trades, but corrupt local officials kept it going. Then America introduced opium from Turkey, which was cheaper. The price of both types plummeted from the competition and sales soared.
By 1839, the Chinese government was getting desperate. They closed off the Pearl River, which effectively held British traders hostage. Thomas Elliot - who was in charge of trade between Britain and China purchased - the opium stocks from the traders in exchange for eventual compensation, which Britain couldn't pay. China destroyed the stocks: 20,000 chests of opium. China refused to allow any British traders to land unless they signed a contract that would force them to submit to the death penalty if they carried opium. Thomas Elliot attempted to ban this contract.

In October of 1839, a ship of Quakers - who refused to deal in opium - sailed through and negotiated a safe port for trade. In response, Elliot blockaded the Pearl River. Fighting started in November, when another ship tried to sail through and the British Navy fired at it. The Qing Navy attempted to protect the ship, but they got shot down despite reporting a victory. The British Navy left to avoid retaliation, but came back later to attack the Canton province.

And so the First Opium War began: the Chinese government trying to protect their finances and people, the British trying to defend the principle of free trade, as well as their honor.

Over the course of the next two years, British forces captured city after city and demanded that the Qing government pay them damages for interrupted trade. In August 1842, the war ended when the Qing signed a treaty opening up more trade ports, paying 21 million dollars in reparations, and giving Hong Kong to Britain. It's a really good thing the US colonies won their war of independence.

The Second Opium war was fought over similar issues, but I'm feeling lazy. It was even longer and bloodier and ended with Britain getting more land and reparations, getting the right to freedom of religion, and legalizing the opium trade.
After that, China began massive domestic production of opium. By 1906, they were producing 85% of the world's opium. 13.5 million people in China alone were addicted to it. Food crops made way to poppy fields, and some provinces began to starve. In 1880, the British tried to discourage it, despite the fact that it was entirely their fault. In 1890, protestant missionaries decided to compile evidence of the drug's harmful effects. Since the Chinese associated opium with Christianity, this didn't go over very well.

Opium could have played a major role in the Chinese Communist Party. Since a good portion of the country was starving, it was much easier for Mao Zedong to convince people to join him in a milk-and-honey communist paradise (though I doubt he used those words). In the '50's, however, the government severely cracked down on addicts, forcing 10 million of them into rehab. Poppy fields were cleared for food and the remaining stock was traded throughout the rest of Southeast Asia. However, in 2003, there were still five million opium users in China.

Meanwhile, in the US, opium was banned as of 1909 - but only because of racism. Since Chinese immigrants were the most pervasive users, opium was gradually associated with them. Heroin was still used as a childrens' cough medicine, though.
Canada was slower to ban it, but the reasons were the same,
In Australia, Aboriginals had been incorporating it into their culture, so banning opium was solely to control and discriminate against them. It's not racism if you're banning a drug, right?
Britain allowed pharmacists to control regulation, including providing small amounts to addicts, since they wanted to wean addicts off the drug instead of forcing them to go cold turkey. This did not work, but they eventually got to full criminalization.

Despite how addictive it is and how many wars were fought over it, opium derivatives are still used in medicine, because they're just so effective.

So, crocobaura, what was that you said about opium?
Old 12th May 2014, 11:27 PM #188
crocobaura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugbug993
So, crocobaura, what was that you said about opium?


Thank you for the history lesson. It confimrs what I said that opium became a highly controlled substance after people started getting high on it causing major social issues. It's still legal for medical purposes. Hey, it's still legal to grow your own poppies and self-medicate like the ancients. Just don't confuse getting high with getting medical benefit.
Old 13th May 2014, 6:09 PM #189
hugbug993
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Nope! In China, they banned it before it caused problems, but it didn't stick. Everyone else banned it because of racism.
Old 13th May 2014, 10:32 PM #190
Mistermook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugbug993
Nope! In China, they banned it before it caused problems, but it didn't stick. Everyone else banned it because of racism.


Not to mention that our resident legal scholar would have people possibly committing felonies if he thinks it's actually legal to "medicate like the ancients" with poppies they grow at home. There was even a minor hullabaloo in the 40s thanks to federal officials coming into California and destroying opium flower crops wholesale, counter to the wishes of the state government. Did you know that there have been tests that indicate you might test positive for opiates after just eating a few poppy seed bagels? You know, the tests where you fail them and you might go to prison for up to twenty years in the US?
Last edited by Mistermook : 13th May 2014 at 11:36 PM.
Old 13th May 2014, 11:43 PM #191
crocobaura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistermook
Not to mention that our resident legal scholar would have people possibly committing felonies if he thinks it's actually legal to "medicate like the ancients" with poppies they grow at home. There was even a minor hullabaloo in the 40s thanks to Federal officials coming into California and destroying opium flower crops wholesale, counter to the wishes of the state government. Did you know that there have been tests that indicate you might test positive for opiates after just eating a few poppy seed bagels? You know, the tests where you fail them and you might go to prison for up to twenty years in the US?


Are you suggesting the US government is allowing its citizens to get high or medicate their pain with poopy seed bagels? Or maybe I misundersttod and you need a prescription to buy poppy seed bagels in the states?
Old 13th May 2014, 11:49 PM #192
hugbug993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
Are you suggesting the US government is allowing its citizens to get high or medicate their pain with poopy seed bagels? Or maybe I misundersttod and you need a prescription to buy poppy seed bagels in the states?


His point is that our tests are sensitive enough to pick up a few bagels, let alone self-medication.

Also, you should really check your posts before submitting them...
Old 14th May 2014, 12:19 AM #193
Mistermook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
Are you suggesting the US government is allowing its citizens to get high or medicate their pain with poopy seed bagels? Or maybe I misundersttod and you need a prescription to buy poppy seed bagels in the states?

Are you suggesting that you don't read what is said, don't comprehend what you read, speak out about subjects you're not informed about, and make trite little comments rather than reveal that your argument has no substance?

...Because that's what I'm reading every time you type something in here. Basically your argument appears to be that marijuana is bad because it's illegal and it's illegal because it's bad. Do you actually have anything factual to add in your favor? I find it tedious to try to expend reasoning on people who are pulling their own contributions to an argument out of their ass.
Old 10th Oct 2017, 1:13 AM #194
ikabarrplaysims
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I vote NO because weed has not killed anyone in history, and weed has made important things happen in history. Alcohol and tobacco is worse.
Old 11th Oct 2017, 2:51 PM #195
pikeman101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikabarrplaysims
I vote NO because weed has not killed anyone in history, and weed has made important things happen in history. Alcohol and tobacco is worse.


No necrophilia pls.
Old 12th Oct 2017, 4:47 PM #196
kattenijin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikeman101
No necrophilia pls.


NecroMANCY. Necrophilia is ... something else entirely.

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Old 12th Oct 2017, 10:52 PM #197
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*puts necronomicon away*

As a stoner it's no debate for me if it should be legalized or decriminalized, even though I'm more for decriminalization, because otherwise it will get expensive. I actually like what Portugal did, all the money wasted on the drug war can be used for rehabilitation.

*continues ritual to summon Valac*

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Old 13th Oct 2017, 9:29 AM #198
cord11
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Wow a thread. My thoughts one Weed is that sure legalize it. I might really dislike the smell of it and the smoke, but the same is true of cigarettes, so ok. There's some smokers who are complete jerks, but they're not everyone. You do you people, have fun, just don't be jerks and smoke in designated non-smoking areas, or bus stops, and we're good.

And Necrophilia, now that's a debate to be had. :P

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