Hello. I'm quite new to this mesh editing thing, but i had tried the moving vertices tutorial and got them to work.

Now I'm trying to add vertices to a nude mesh.

What I had done so far is i extract all the 4 files with simpe, created a new mesh package file and fixed its integrity, exported the CRES and SHAPE, and changed the 3d referencing in the texture package to this CRES and SHAPE. Then I created a plane, just a plane, using milkshape and placed it somewhere near the body. I uvmapped the plane too. I then replace the gmdc file in the mesh package.

Expectedly, the plane did not show up in bodyshop.

Err, so i would like to ask what additional things do i have to do? do i have to assign the vertices of the plane to the joints? or do i have to change some bone values, which i have absolutely no idea. Or do i have to change the other files in the mesh package.

I had read a lot of threads in this forum already, but im really confused bcos some of the threads are old and might not be necessary, and some are about creating fanciful stuffs which are too high level for me.

Thanks to any reply.

First, in order to add or remove vertices in a mesh, you'll need to be using Unimesh. You said you tried the "moving vertices" tutorial so... I'm going to assume you were using Meshtool, as you delete vertices in the Unimesh tutorial... So what you describe would not be possible using Meshtool and the obj format. Dunno whether you are or not, as you didn't say which you were using.

In Unimesh, a new part is created by creating the faces, uv mapping them to the correct part of the texture, and then all of the new vertices will need to be part of an existing group (usually "body"). Selecting multiple groups and regrouping will lose the comments on the group, so make sure to copy them before you regroup, then paste them back in. Vertices must be assigned 100% to some bones in the sim's skeleton, which is done through the Unimesh bone tool. Which bone(s) individual vertices will be assigned to, and how much and in what order is determined by their placement in relation to the skeleton, other vertices, and the effect you want, and it's a darn fiddly process to get everything working right most of the time with bone assignments.

Wow, that's as clear as crystal a reply.

Thanks a lot. And btw, i tried both meshtool and unimesh.

Erm, how do i thankin posts?
"1603 Thanks in 21 Posts"

I should also mention that you'll need to rename the newly regrouped group back to the original name (as Milkshape'll call it like... regroup05) in addition to fixing the comments, and that, well, the name of the mesh may be something other than "body" especially in cases of fat/pregnant body morphs or the crazy complicated meshes like the hula girl and nightie (both complex due to them having multiple groups to allow for playing with the alpha) but, um... yeah. :D

You can thank someone on a post with a thanks button - usually the first post in an article, FAQ, tutorial, or download thread will have one.

Erm, another short question, if the mesh originally come with the fat and pregnant thing, can i just delete them away? cos i dun wanna waste time editing those also

No, don't delete them: create a new document in Milkshape, import the GMDC you're going to edit, and when it asks if you want to create blend groups, tell it no. I believe that will give you a mesh that won't morph for fat and pregnant, but I don't think deleting existing groups from a mesh is a good idea.

You can only 'safely' ignore the morphing groups if you're doing a whole body mesh (and then your mesh won't get fat, and if you share it, you should let people know that, because it's a 'flaw', even if minor). If you are doing a top or bottom only, you should support 'fat' or things will not line up when the sim becomes fat.

Ok thx. Another problem crops up, the "plane" appeared in bodyshop now, but it's totally black on one side, not acquiring the texture, and transparent on the other. Thx

Well, if you want something to be visible on both sides, you need to have polygons on both sides; polygons are only visible from one side, so you'll have to duplicate the plane, reverse the vertex order (to flip 'em round the other way) and shift it VERY slightly so it's aligned correctly as the other side of that set of polygons.

As for why it's totally black on one side... What's it look like in Milkshape? I often get problems with newly created bits in Milkshape being made with no/broken/wrong normals, which often manifests itself as strange areas of darkness/shadows on the model in Milkshape.

Normals seem to be kind of critical and though I'm still not sure precisely what they are, I know they're assigned to specific areas/pieces of the mesh, probably specific polygons, and relate to the way the mesh is displayed (the smoothing between polygons, I think, and the interplay of light on the surface of the mesh) - usually I've found with problems with normals, certain areas or pieces of the mesh will go completely or partially dark.

With object meshes, this is easily fixed by doing "smooth all" but that should NOT be done with body meshes as this will totally ruin the mesh, creating "seams" where different parts of the mesh come together. With body meshes, looks like this little plugin can help with that, or, since what you're doing is fairly simple, you can make a NEW Milkshape document, make your plane, Smooth All, THEN import the GMDC, and do the rest of the changes (regroup, comments, assignments, etc.) but do NOT Smooth All again once the GMDC is imported, or you'll bust it.

Ok. gonna try that. Thanx a lot!

This is because of two things - first, the "back" side of faces are always invisible. You won't ever notice this on the existing meshes because all the "back" sides are to the inside of the body. However, your new "plane" is going to be single-sided, and will look invisible from the back side.

Now, the "black" problem - this is because when editing a body mesh, you are recommended (correctly) to leave "autosmooth" turned off. This is to avoid having the "normals" of you mesh altered. The "normals" are part of the mesh info that tells the game how light will reflect from the mesh parts.

But, the problem here is that if you create new parts, either by using the built-in shapes (primatives) in MilkShape, or by connecting vertices to make new faces, they will have no normals. Therefore, no light will "reflect" from them, they will always look black.

So, how to fix this without harming the normals of the rest of the mesh?

It's a bit tricky, but it will make sense if you think about the above info.

First, before making the new part, save your mesh as a .ms3d file.

Also, right-click in your 3d window in MilkShape and un-checkmark "draw backfaces". This will make the back side of your faces show as invisible, just as they will look in the game. Otherwise, MilkShape will show them as black, and you won't be able to tell the back of newly created parts from the front.

OK, now create your new part(s), uv_map them, position them as you like. But do NOT make any vertex assignments, and do NOT regroup them into the main mesh yet.

Next, delete all the original mesh groups so only your new part(s) are showing.

If you need a visible backside for something like your "plane", now you would select that part, by face, and use "Edit/Duplicate Selection" followed by "Face/Reverse vertex order". You will now have a plane that will be visible on both sides. You can re-group this new part back together with the other part.

Now select all parts by "face", and on the Face menu use "smooth all". The new parts should all turn silver-grey instead of black.


Next, Export this part as a wavefront .obj file.

Next use "Delete All" on the vertex menu to get rid of everything.

Open up the .ms3d file of your original mesh

Then import the .obj file of your new part - you're all set to continue editing, your new part now has "normals" and a backside, and the original normals of the mesh were not damaged.

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LOL, looks like we both posted at the same time - well, I'll leave mine anyway, maybe between both of them it will make more sense.

Yes! it all works. Thanks all once again.

HP is right on the mark.
Yes, to see things in bodyshop you'll need to do the uvmapping, assign it to bones, and it needs normals..... but indeed giving it normals is problematic because we don't want smoothing to happen to the already existing mesh.

So while the testing is good, in the end you'll probably want/need to make a copy of your base mesh file.... build your addition in a new group *without* adding it to the body group. You can uvmap it now, probably a good time. Smooth it. That will mess up the body a bit, but don't worry about that in your *copy*. Save your work. Delete the body and any other groups except for your new part. As you *haven't* done bone assignments yet, you can just save the new part out by exporting it as an OBJ file.

Now start 'new'. Make sure automsooth is off. Read in your milkshape file with the body (or import gdmc and start fresh). Now import the obj file. Make sure it's uvmapped to some area not already in use by the mesh. If it needs to attach specifically to certain vertices, use the extended edit tools to fix the xyz values and you can match the bone assignments at the same time. (Dr Pixel does that in the thread for the extended edit tool, read down) Once you are happy, go ahead and regroup as previously outlined. Make sure the rest of the vertices get bone assignments.

*laugh* it's these long posts. Dr. Pixel posted also, but it wasn't there when I was typing up my stuff. And so did HP. So you've now got 3 variations of the same info. Go for it!

For when you're doing something a little more complex than a plane... If you're having trouble with normals, you can build the new parts of your mesh separately in another Milkshape document (your working document), using either the "mannequins" that are just the nude body meshes exported as .objs (with no bone assignments or anything, but retaining their normals, uv mapping, etc.) or you can use another GMDC import of the nude body and not worry about breaking it by smoothing... Then when you've done making your changes and your mesh is displaying properly (your new parts are all properly smooth and grey), delete the "mannequin" or imported body from the GMDC so that all you have left is the group containing new bits... export that as an .obj, then in a new Milkshape document (this'll be your REAL document) import the unmodified GMDC, import your .obj containing the pieces you want to add, and then regroup, fix comments, and fix bone assignments.

Alternately, just do all your changes in your real document and use the msAlignNormals plugin I linked ya to. I haven't used it myself so I can't speak to its ease of use, but, well, I suppose it depends on what changes you're making and what you're doing which would be easiest/quickest.

Edit: Yay, let's all post long explanations of the same process at once. Well, as Dr P says, different explanations may make it make more sense. Tee hee.

Haha. U guys rox. Yup, different explanation certainly make it easier to understand.

I'm about at the same level! Actually a bit late
I mean I'm pretty able to modifying mesh but without adding/removing faces and using SIMPE, MILKSHAPE and MESHTOOL in sequence.
What's UNIMESH? It's a different tool?

Yes, Unimesh is a different tool. Please read the stickies on the top of the forum. Unimesh also has a manual. And there's a tutorial to take you through the basics of unimesh in the tutorial area, read the titles of the tutorials.