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Stupid people are stupid
Original Poster
#1 Old 15th Sep 2014 at 3:05 PM Last edited by AngelFrouk : 26th Sep 2014 at 12:22 PM.
Default Disappearing sims
Many of us have reported problems with disappearing sims.
Over at the Official Forums there has been talk about this happening only to people who are playing on a rotation system. For now it is not certain this is causing the problem.

One of the many threads on the official forums: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/dis...y-never-existed

SimGuruMax has made a comment in a thread too: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/dis...omment_12652747

SimGuruMax:
Quote:
Well first of all, I am sorry you lost your Sims. My initial reaction is that they aged and died while you were playing with the other family, but that would have required you to play for a long time before trying to switch back. I honestly don't know whether player households are protected in some way from being replaced - I would very much assume that they are. I also haven't heard an uproar about this on the forums, which I would have expected if there was a consistent bug like this due to our stable of rotational gameplay players. I am going to take a stab and label this one as a bug.


There's also a thread about it in Ea Answer HQ: http://answers.ea.com/t5/The-Sims-4...ed/td-p/3459543

For now there is no fix!

EDIT (sep 21): MasterDinadan has made a temporary fix! Note that this is in testing, not officially released yet: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=535559
EDIT (sep 26): EA has released a patch which, in theory, should fix the problem with disappearing sims. Note that this patch is only supposed to fix the pruning, not the 180 sims limit.
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Stupid people are stupid
Original Poster
#2 Old 15th Sep 2014 at 3:11 PM
As for some of the assumptions made in those threads:

Most people using the "save" button istead of the "save as" button: I have only used the "save as" and it still happened to me.

As for the rotation system: I only went into another families house to check out something and saved (as) when I was done. I haven't been playing that family for at least 4 (RL) days. I noticed the disappearance of the sims this morning.

SimGuruMax wrote "I also haven't heard an uproar about this on the forums". I know this post has been made on sep 12, but I'm thinking he's been hiding under a rock since the game came out...
Stupid people are stupid
Original Poster
#3 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 5:15 PM
Crinrict made this post this morning in the thread I linked to in the first post. Hopefully this brings us closer to a solution.

Also, I've been talking to Crinrict on Twitter about this and (s)he told me there's most likely still some data around for the disappearing sims: https://twitter.com/crinrict/status/511581135143723008

I'll try and keep an eye on things, but if someone finds anything before me, please post!
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#4 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 6:13 PM
I don't know if anyone has looked into that a little more in-depth, but this may have something to do with the population management in S4_story_progression.story_progression_service_03B33DDF_00000000_3BC5118B5E06AB0C.xml (genealogy pruning, max_population) -- from the .tdesc (story_progression-story_progression_service.tdesc in Descriptions > Tuning) it looks like there are tuneable parameters regarding what relationships the sims in question have to the currently active sim. For instance:

Quote:
<Tunable name="relationship_depth_weight" class="Tunable" type="float" default="0.5" display="Relationship Depth Weight" filter="0" group="General" tuning_state="NeedsTuning" description="Multiplier used to modify relationship depth to determine how important depth is in culling score. The higher the multiplier the more relationship depth is added to culling score. The lower the culling score the more likely sim has a chance of being deleted." />


From what I heard, the unexpected deletion of sims seems to be an issue mostly for people who rotate between households -- in other words, might be that EA didn't think this through to the point of "what happens if the sim in question does have relationships to other sims in the world -- only not to the ones that happen to be currently active?"

On the upside, if this is what happens it might be quite simple to fix by setting one of these values impossibly high/low or changing the sim filters involved so that only unplayed sims can be culled or whatever. (Of course the most desireable solution might be to turn off that so-called "story progression" entirely, but unfortunately I haven't found the switch yet =P)

I havent looked at this more closely myself -- I only know about it because some stuff regarding random spawing of townies happens to be in the same files.

For anyone interested, download the EA documentation (the .tdescs are in Descriptions) and velocitygrass' XML Extractor for a start -- I don't know if that's all it takes or if more resources / tools are needed, but it's definitely a start. See Create > Tools and Create > Modding Discussion.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Inventor
#5 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 6:31 PM
For me all kinds of Sims disappear and have a save game where it's very reproducible. It seems to happen on Thursday night.

Anyone know if there's some cleanup being done then ?
Mad Poster
#6 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 6:40 PM
It's my unplayed families that are being culled, both in houses and the not in the world households. I kind of expect the not in the world ones to disappear but my played sims had relationships with them. I have missing parts of sim families that have been split in manage world, adding spouses and kids to the unplayed households and moving them into houses, doesn't keep them from being culled either. I am missing Alexander Goth's family that have been split from the Goth house, I am missing the Pancakes daughter and her family, and I am missing the Lemon brother and his family. All had been placed in lots I built in both neighborhoods. What do I get next? Elderly sims that are not related to each other and have no relationship with my families I've played. Same for the not in the world families. All my bars and lounges are filled with elderly, which I don't mind but trying to find teens and partners for single sims have been nulled.

That's not true about no complaints on the forums, I have replied in 3 threads and seen some discussion about it in the SimGuru threads. Might they be ignoring the questions about disappearing families?

Resident member of The Receptacle Refugees
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Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#7 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 6:50 PM
@cinrict - see the XML files (and the .tdesc) .. as I understand it, there's two things that relate to culling:

Quote: Originally posted by S4_story_progression.story_progression_service_03B33DDF_00000000_3BC5118B5E06AB0C.xml
<V t="genealogy_pruning">
<U n="genealogy_pruning">
<U n="_time_of_week">
<U n="end_time">
<E n="day">THURSDAY</E>
</U>
<U n="start_time">
<E n="day">THURSDAY</E>
</U>
</U>
</U>
</V>


(default start / end hour are 2 and 6, says the tdesc -- not sure whether you'd call that "thursday night" or "wednesday night"?)

Quote: Originally posted by S4_story_progression.story_progression_service_03B33DDF_00000000_3BC5118B5E06AB0C.xml

<V t="populate_action">
<U n="populate_action">
(..)
<U n="_time_of_week">
<U n="end_time">
<E n="day">WEDNESDAY</E>
<T n="hour">4</T>
</U>
<U n="start_time">
<E n="day">WEDNESDAY</E>
<T n="hour">2</T>
<T n="minute">0</T>
</U>
</U>
</U>
</V>

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Inventor
#8 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 6:54 PM
So genealogy_pruning would be on Thursday. Wonder that's that supposed to be.

There have been Wednesday reports as well so that is something I can work with.

I still think the wrong stuff is being purged. Why purge played families ? Even if they don't have a relationship to the current Sim, they should not be purged.
Inventor
#9 Old 16th Sep 2014 at 11:49 PM
I did some more testing and while Wednesday didn't seem to to much, Thursday got rid of all my played Sims partner and children.

Very very annoying.
Stupid people are stupid
Original Poster
#10 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 6:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by crinrict
I did some more testing and while Wednesday didn't seem to to much, Thursday got rid of all my played Sims partner and children.

Very very annoying.

Did any of the sims in the disappearing households age up on thursday? Or in the week before?

Could you tell me precisely what you meant by "my played Sims partner and children"? I think I might be having the exact same thing going on, where my the sim I previously played is still there, but her husband and children went missing. Same goes for my main family, where the girlfriend of my sims husband went missing, along with their son. She part of a different household. The other two members of that household are still in game.
Inventor
#11 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 11:19 AM
Sounds like mine. I have tried cheating the relationship up but they still disappeared.

I think there might be several factors involved.

I played though Thursday night with the family that just had their second child so they didn't disappear. Then I've played a week, taking turns and having babies in two other families. I also had two Sims die in two of my households. One was a teen/elder household one a elder/ya household.

Then Thursday night came along again (nothing happened on Wednesday)

In my three families I had children that week, all partners and the children went missing. The elder/ya household is now empty (since the elder had died that week and the ya seems to have gone missing) and the elder/teen household now only has a teen (since the elder died). So it seems that dying and children seem to trigger this bug.

I do believe EA is looking into this.

Maybe this helps a modder to fix it until EA does. I've given up on trying to save that game for now since I've tried everything I can think of (making the households unplayed, evicting them, cheating up relationships .. nothing helped). The only way to keep it from happening is to play through Thursday night but I can't merge or play all three of them.
Stupid people are stupid
Original Poster
#12 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 11:40 AM Last edited by AngelFrouk : 17th Sep 2014 at 2:29 PM.
So, to sum this up:

  • It only happens to household that have relationships with the household you are currently playing. Not the issue!
  • It only happens on thursdaynight.
  • It only happens when there's either been a death or a birth(day) in the household where sims are disappearing.

Is this correct Crin?

@other people who had this happening; do you play with aging on or off?
Inventor
#13 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 11:49 AM
I've looked into the Python code in story progression actions and the sims get randomly deleted and generated based on various determinants. As you already mentioned it has to do with the relationship status and the game deletes and generates sims according to various days and times.
I dislike this system because I hate the EA townies. Nearly all have them have the same name. I only want my own sims and I don't want the game to generate and delete sims. So I try to understand the system behind but my coding skills are nearly non existent. So I hope someone who has the skills makes a mod that stops generating and deleting sims.

You never know what’s comin’ for ya.
Inventor
#14 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 12:21 PM
I don't believe the have to have a relationship to your Sim but randomly generated Sims that don't (and not live anywhere) seem to be purged more often and on other days. Don't care about those though.

I think the ones we care about are only deleted on Thursday night. There was someone who said it happened to them with aging off.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#15 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 12:28 PM
himawara, can you check whether the XML tuning for max_population is actually being digested correctly? It seems to be out of whack with the corresponding .tdesc, but I can't tell whether the XML is incorrect or the .tdesc maybe out of date. Look at how max_last_instantiated and sim_filter are nested? This might also be relevant for townie generation.

I dunno, better post in Create if you see anything weird .. I don't think anyone with relevant knowledge would look at Game Help.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Inventor
#16 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 12:30 PM
Yes, I'm speaking of the homeless sims. But deleting and generating sims is a very random thing, so it also includes the families we play and who live in houses. This whole system is not well thought off, it's a shame that EA hasn't thought about not randomly deleting sim families we'd like to play on a rotational basis.

Plasticbox
Yes I can have a look into it but I can't promise anything. When I might figure it out I post in the modding forum.

You never know what’s comin’ for ya.
Lab Assistant
#17 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 12:30 PM
Has EA commented on this issue in any way? 100+ people are having this issue and they should definetely do something quick.
Test Subject
#18 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 4:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by AngelFrouk
So, to sum this up:

  • It only happens to household that have relationships with the household you are currently playing. Not the issue!
  • It only happens on thursdaynight.
  • It only happens when there's either been a death or a birth(day) in the household where sims are disappearing.

Is this correct Crin?

@other people who had this happening; do you play with aging on or off?


With me it's only (so far..but kinda not touching the game till they fix this anyways) families that are in the "not currently in world section" , aging is off for everyone in my game except my current family and noone has been aging up yet. Would really appreciate EA not messing with my game and not deleting any sims at all (or spawning others). But somehow this is an ongoing issue with them :S.
Forum Resident
#19 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 4:19 PM
I think I had this happen in my game. I play with the longest aging setting and rotate between all the families in the neighborhood every few in-game days. I had a married elder couple living in the Goth mansion (I moved the Goths to a bigger house with enough of a yard for a graveyard) and when I started up the game last night, I first checked on all my households like I normally do and that couple, when I hovered over their house, the couple's family name popped up, but it didn't show any sims. And when I went to the manage household thing, it showed the household, but with no one there. Every other household seemed fine. I ended up "evicting" that family to free up the house for other sims to live in, but now I'm not sure I want to play any more.

I thought this game didn't have story progression, so I'm not too happy that the game's deleting sims and I've also noticed my sims having will suddenly have romantic relationships that I don't want. I like 100% control over my game. I've been that way since the first game.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#20 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 5:41 PM
ShortyBoo, did you also go in that household or were you just relying on the preview? I haven't had any blank previews yet, but it sometimes does take a while for the preview to appear -- maybe next time you have this, try actually entering the household to see whether they're really gone or if it's just the preview.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Forum Resident
#21 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 9:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by plasticbox
ShortyBoo, did you also go in that household or were you just relying on the preview? I haven't had any blank previews yet, but it sometimes does take a while for the preview to appear -- maybe next time you have this, try actually entering the household to see whether they're really gone or if it's just the preview.


I actually tried selecting that household to try playing, but it just zoomed in slightly on the map screen, then nothing happened. I just picked another household and played from there.
Inventor
#22 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 11:13 PM
Yeah, I have a lot of empty households.

I think the romantic relationships just happens from them interacting with each other. They won't take it to any hight level though.
Test Subject
#23 Old 17th Sep 2014 at 11:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ShortyBoo
I think I had this happen in my game. I play with the longest aging setting and rotate between all the families in the neighborhood every few in-game days. I had a married elder couple living in the Goth mansion (I moved the Goths to a bigger house with enough of a yard for a graveyard) and when I started up the game last night, I first checked on all my households like I normally do and that couple, when I hovered over their house, the couple's family name popped up, but it didn't show any sims. And when I went to the manage household thing, it showed the household, but with no one there. Every other household seemed fine. I ended up "evicting" that family to free up the house for other sims to live in, but now I'm not sure I want to play any more.

I thought this game didn't have story progression, so I'm not too happy that the game's deleting sims and I've also noticed my sims having will suddenly have romantic relationships that I don't want. I like 100% control over my game. I've been that way since the first game.


I had the exact same thing happen to me. It was the Goth family. I had entered their house once before for a short time. Then I noticed that they no longer appeared in my sim's relationship chart, so I returned to the world map to check it out. If you mouse over their house, it says "Goth" in the preview corner but shows no one. If you click to play it zooms in slightly and stops there. I evicted and tried manage household and you just...can't. The family is "there", but really not. Very weird. Thankfully, I haven't had the problem of families actually vanishing(what happeneed to ShortyBoo and me was definitely a bug) but then again, I haven't been able to play the game much since IT CRASHES ALL THE TIME. But that's another matter. *sigh*...
Field Researcher
#24 Old 18th Sep 2014 at 2:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by AngelFrouk
So, to sum this up:
  • It only happens to household that have relationships with the household you are currently playing. Not the issue!
  • It only happens on thursdaynight.
  • It only happens when there's either been a death or a birth(day) in the household where sims are disappearing.

Is this correct Crin?

@other people who had this happening; do you play with aging on or off?


I had it happened to an entire family, they were related to the one I was playing at the time. They had been played previously but they disappeared some time after I switched to their relatives.
I saved between family switching, I used Save, not Save AS.
Not sure what day it was, I wasn't paying attention, but I'll be sure to watch it now!
There were no deaths or births, I'm playing with aging off until I finish populating the hoods.
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 18th Sep 2014 at 5:53 AM
I didn't see anything mentioned about it, but has anybody with the disappearing Sims problem attempted to back up their files and uninstall/reinstall the game and see if that brings the Sims back/stops them disappearing?

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