I would like to reference this thread on my forum & site so players who visit there can be aware of this info. Would it be possible to put Delphy's plug-in in the first post for easier access?

Also, thx again for all those contributing to this info! I applaud the creators who take time to make sure things like this are accounted for & those who may not have known but are now taking steps to fix things.

-B

I agree it would probably be a good idea to put a link to the updated dll wrapper that gives the counts in the first post of this thread.

I've also alerted Quaxi to the file's existance so hopefully it will end up in the next version of SimPE and people won't have to install it separately.

Hi! I'm the Webmaster from Reflexsims, the site with this wavelike bed mentioned several times.
I was not aware of this Polygone-Problem, and I agree that I have to worry about this, to reduce the Polygone in my Objects. but the Problem is, the Frame itself has got only 1000 polys, the file became big after using the meshtool, and taking the Original mesh, and my Frame togeter?

So sorry for the highpolygone Meshes, I will try to reduce it in future!

Best Wishes, Reflexionistin :howdy:

Reflexionistin, you have some wonderful items. I hope you can reduce poly count on them!

I agree Reflexionistin that frame is my favorite in the game so far.

I completely agree with giving credit to the place where you got the mesh. I have seen SO MANY people use other's meshes and take 100% credit for making the mesh when they didn't so squat. It makes me sick knowing how many hours are put into a mesh and some moronic punk comes along and takes them from you. Just because it's free doesnt mean you don't have to give credit. I think that should be a requirement. Next time I see a mesh like that on here I am going to post about it and give credit my own damned self.

Now on the poly count issue I do think people should post it. There is no question. Not everyone playing TS2 knows about poly count and the like, all they know is something is wrong with their game. It may handle on your computer but not others.

Yes it sucks when someone takes credit for your work. I always put my body meshes up here at MTS2 for people to recolor freely and I had someone from varioussimmers.net email me saying that someone uploaded my mesh saying "I don't remember to created this mesh but thanks to whoever did"... the upload was removed, but it's just annoying. If you're going to use someone's mesh, you should definitely remember who made it!

Off topic...

Cold_Ethyl - are you an Alice Cooper fan by any chance?

~FG

Well based on the post from the webmaster from Reflex Sims, it's entirely possible that the mesh artists aren't aware themselves of high poly counts. Is there a way to spread this news around to some of the other sites. Or maybe include a feature in Sim Pe, because that's what everyone uses to make new meshes, that alerts people to this issue? I guess that would have to be worked out with Quaxi though...

It's just a shame that great sites like Reflex Sims and Ellis' have to be avoided because of high polys.

Sites offering meshes(usually high poly) like E-Interiors and B&B have a clear policy about their use.

But what we have seen since the Sims, is that those meshes are used freely, without no credits and also sold within the so-called "donation" sets.

I do agree the poly count should be posted by the creators. Its a bummer to download an object anaware of its poly counts and have to go through SimPE just to check it out.

it's great that mesh artists are being made aware of their high poly counts... but i'm really concerned that enforcing any sort of limit or even a guideline is going to land us with a lot of boring maxis style objects and scare off a lot of the artists. i have a tonne of these high poly count items (including that wave bed) in my game and it hasn't slowed me down one bit, and i don't have a top of the line gaming computer. i'd rather have objects that are gorgeous and have fewer of them, than a crapload of low poly count objects.

for instance, that vase that Motoki showed as an example several comments up... the high poly count version is the one i'd download, his low poly count version is not nearly as nice, i wouldn't include it in my game.

at most i think we should require mesh artists to always include their poly counts, leaving it up to the individual player to decide.

i'd also like to add that i'm concerned with the "call out" tone attached to this topic. it doesn't surprise me in the least that many mesh creators would not yet understand the ramifications of poly count. people learn as they go along, and it's not a good idea to point fingers and assume the worst - it's not in the best interest of cooperation at any rate.

How is it not nearly as nice? The shape looks pretty much the same to me and I'd also add I zoomed in really close with the camera mode and the Z button. In normal gameplay you would never get that close. I also changed the UV Map so that may account for the "not looking nearly as nice" in YOUR opinion.

No one is trying to enforce anything? Where the hell are you seeing that? All I am saying is I think the community as a whole needs to come together and try and come up with some kind of voluntary suggested guideline. And if the creators give their numbers but users have no clue or concept what those numbers mean and what is high and what isn't then the numbers mean nothing.

I'm sorry you seem to have issues with this Katgyrl, but if you think you know more than the people who made the game or the person who made the mesh exporter and importer that made it possible for people to make these meshes in the first place then I would like to see what sort of 3D objects or programs you have made.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone and if you think that then it is YOUR problem. I've already said several times it's no one's fault because they didn't know! You can hardly blame someone for doing something wrong if they weren't aware it was wrong in the first place.

As for the comment about high poly things looking nice, I am sick to death of repeating myself because people who don't have a clue are buying into the fallacy that high poly always = pretty and low poly always = bad looking. That's not the case at all. I've seen some high poly crap and some excellent low poly things. It all depends on what techniques were used, the creators skill and the approach they took to adding the detail. As has been said by several others, it takes more skill to make a good looking low poly mesh than a high one, but it most certainly can be done.

I said in previous post
"...I am very glad to see the community as a whole taking it in the spirit in which is what meant as helpful and imformative - rather than a bunch of us ganging up on them... lol..."

Did i speak to soon? This is not a personal attack on mesh makers, Its supposed to be an informative guide. Why is it there will always be a few people who jump on something and make it out to be something it isn't.... If i didn't know better, i would almost think they enjoy a little drama... tum-tee-tum.

We all want to play the best game we can, and enjoy it. Some new mesh makers simply do not understand that you can't just take a very high poly mesh 'simmize' it and pop it in the game. Theres no need for a 30,000 poly plant for example.
Its all about education and offering guidlines and help, so that the community as a whole can enjoy these wonderful new items, but not at the expense of gameplay. So please don't take it the wrong way..

-Xi-
xXx

I don't want to be some kind of polygon gestapo. I hope I am not coming off that way and if I am that's not my intention! I just want creators and uses to be informed about it and the potential problems it can cause. If they are aware of this and still choose to make or download the files, then hey, that's their business.

Hell, even I kept a few high poly objects, including a 20,000 polygon plant that I loved to death and couldn't bear to part with lol. I just segregated them into their own directory, I know to use them sparingly, and if I start having problems you can bet that's going to be one of the first things I try taking out to see if it's causing it.

I mean people are always so quick to point the finger at the "hacks" when someone starts having problems and no one complains about that, even though in reality the vast majority of those work just fine and the creators of them are quite responsible.

Motoki regarding the hacks comment AMEN!!! You don't see one person whine or complain when they say a hack could be the issue but I'll be damned if someone criticizes or even insinuates some of these meshes with outrageous counts could be causing a problem all hell breaks loose. Maybe not all hell but you get the drift. Anyways Yes some of these people are taking 3d models and scaling them down to use in the game not knowing what they are doing. I'm not saying we should flame them and neither is Motoki. SImply have some accountability...Put a notice of what poly count your object is and a nice note of whether it is considered high, medium or low. Then as everyone has said is will be up to the user to decide whether or not they want the said object in their game.

Thanks so much for posting this info. I had no idea that objects could vary so much in file size, or that small items could take up more memory than a larger one. I just had a terrible crash on my sims and now my whole computer is going slow. I'm going to take a long hard look at my downloads.

Reflexionistin,
I have that beautiful bed in my game and just tested it in SimPE, I find nothing wrong with the poly/vert counts, polygon - 4596, and vertices - 2793. This is under the recommended Maxis count of 800 per tile which would be 6 x 800 or 4800. The only problem with that file is the size of the package itself (4.42MB), that can be fixed easily using the method I have included below.

A trick to reducing file size for creators, mainly for beds, but works with any multi-part object.

When you export the obj, using the Exporter by Delphy in SimPE, UNCHECK everything but the part you are editing. IE., if you are creating a new bed frame mesh, only export the frame, uncheck all the bedding and shadows, it only gets in the way to begin with and you have to keep hidding it in the mesh editor to see what you are doing.

Use the frame you exported as a size and placement indicator, you don't need the bedding.

Then when you use the Mesh Tool you have only to choose frame in the Settings tab, commit and Save the *.simpe file.

When you import the *.simpe file to the package there will not be any bedding textures included, but all custom bedding will be available in the catalog for your new frame. Edit the texture for the frame and shadow(if it needs it) and you're done. If you want new bedding, do a bedding recolor as a seperate file, much smaller that way.

This also helps those who may not like the bedding you made for your new frame and delete it from the catalog in-game only to find out it was part of the package and they now have lost the frame also.

CT :D

I would just like to thank you all for this invaluable info. In just the last few weeks I have had random crashes and lock ups and have not been able to explain or fix them (and I have a high-end machine), I have just downloaded the SimPE program and plugin and am learning how to check my files .... I am shocked at how much needs to be weeded.

Once again, I say, thanks you are doing a service to the Sims Community and I firmly believe that there are many creators who are .... just unaware!

Cheers Jutta

calm down Motoki i wasn't even thinking of you when i made my comments. and godwinizing this topic isn't very helpful; there's no need to drag the gestapo into this, heh. there is a certain someone harrassing a mesh creator, in a thread on this board & elsewhere, but it's not helpful to link to stuff like that. you know, so people don't take things personally. because obviously people want to take things personally anyway. i am legitmately concerned about folks scaring off mesh creators or creating a climate where they won't want to co-operate. there is a whiff of "some mesh creators are evil" here whether anyone wants to admit it or not, and that's not good for any of us.

and yes, it's my opinion that the vase is quite fugly after you wrangled the polygons under control, and so what ? that's not a personal attack on you, it's just my taste. it's not like you made the vase. i wouldn't download the original either, again not my taste. i would simply download the more detailed object. if the more detailed object is low poly, well hip hip hooray for small mercies. either way my system can handle it for now.

the opinions of the simple game player who doesn't create meshes and is worried about the quality (= not just low poly but awesome looking) of objects is not something to be discounted or insulted when they don't appear to agree with you. maybe if you read my comment without feeling on the spot, you would have caught that i'm all for mesh creators being aware of their poly counts.

I'm not trying to scare anyone off. I want to help people. If a creator wants to know how they can find out a polygon count, I've been helping them with that information. If you think I or anyone else is saying anyone is evil that then that's your own personal problem, not a fact.

Regarding Reflexionistin's wave bed, I have it and like CTNutmegger, I actually think the count on it is reasonable. On the other hand, I can see Pinhead's point too about a wave being a fairly simple shape and it probably could be optimized a little more I suppose.

If Reflexionistin can optimize it some and get that count down, that would be great. And if not, I still would use it as it currently is. I don't think that particular mesh is one that people really need to be concerned about at all. At least in my mind it isn't.

CT: What you posted above about the beds and keeping the file sizes down, is that why people are finding basically 2 separate Geometric Data Container instances of an object with a high count (ie not shadows or anything like that but it seems like 2 separate versions of the bed itself)? People are asking me if they should add up both Geometric Data containers in that case, but I don't think that's correct. I'm just trying to clarify that point. I generally just look at one of the Geometric Data Containers, the one with the actual object, as the shadows and water and such are negligible, but in this case it seems like 2 of them have the object.

Sadly, I am a programmer, and sadly also, I am somewhat versed in the arcane art of game engines, yet also sadly, this does not stop me being stupid, selfish, and occasionally a Luddite.

Thank-you for so soft a touch on what merited a full backhand. I stand properly humbled by your reminder of reality.

If you are particularly kind, you will not think of me looking like Randy Mc Acne. -- I really do think the very finest people comprise the Sims online community, and really believe the finest of them habit this forum.

My frustration is mostly impatience with having a £8,000 system that can render a furnished 500 room hospital in a matter of hours, but heave up its kibble over the Sims 2 having objects with beyond an ill-defined number of polygons. I full well -- at least when rational -- understand that market- and reverse- compatability is a necessary part of any programming effort, unless it is for a single client and predefined system.

Meekly, I point out the profit that Maxis/EA stands to make from the Sims 2, I see the R : P (risk to profit ratio) for setting the install with 2 rendering engines as entirely reasonable; moreso as the market as expected EOL (end of life) for older hardware, it would then be ready packaged for what would at that future date be market standard.

My poorly spoken, ill-worded, prior post was a rather late night affair spewed out after spending many hours stabilizing the game itself. I really would care if my Sims had little more than objects that only looked as though made of string and pasteboard. I really do understand the difficulty of anyone unfamiliar with 3d and CAD trying to create new objects for the game, and I should consider more wisely my first experiences before shooting my fool mouth off while in an emotionally aggitated state.

In truth, one of my chief reasons for not making any new objects is the fact that I know my objects would all be far too high in poly-count for the average user's system. Somewhere in the back of this brain of mine, there is the memory of getting the Wildcat Realizm 800 and gloating that no one I knew could afford one. I pray you, Delphy, if I speak off the cuff again, that you bind and gag me, then dump me in a trailer park in Arkansas.

I have been somewhat blinded to the benefit of my situation and the rather odd point of view I have come to hold as a result of having so atypical a graphics board. I shall endeavour to exercise better judgement in the future.

lol beosboxboy you speak so eloquently you should be a writer rather than a programmer. Also ... if I had a high end card like you must own I too would be wanting the best of the best ... heck why not? If you can afford lobster why eat top ramen?

Unfortunately that place in Arkansas sounds strangely familiar (home). No lol j/k but I am in the same financial bracket of some poor soul that lives in a shed out in the backhills of no where and I count my blessings this awesome game even works on my piss poor excuse for a system.

Mainly just dribble coming from me... but I did enjoy reading your style of writing and had to comment on it.

From examining many of the packages, this seems to be the reason for multiple GMDCs, now if both of them are loaded or not when the object is used on a lot, I defer to those who know and understand game engines much better then I do. Though this might be the reason some have complained about lag on lots with that bed, because the bed itself is below recommended levels, in theory there should be no problem with it. But, by leaving that copy of the original bed and bedding, or whatever base object was used, in the package it seems to me that this would be adding a copy of the base back into the game and it would be loaded along with the rest. (gad that was a mouthful LOL, am I making any sense?)

I think this should be made clear to creators with possibly a notice tag on the GMDC plugin page in SimPE to uncheck the parts not being edited before pressing the Export Button, beg, beg It would help keep package size down and help with bandwidth use.

But I must warn everyone, you can't simple open a package and delete the extra GMDCs, it won't work and renders the package useless. (I know, I tried just for the heck of it), it has to be done when the package is created.

CT :D

Oh dear, I think this bed issue could turn out to be a rather widespread problem as the file sizes for most of the ones I have come across are quite large.

If the beds are being rendered twice, that's not good! And even if they aren't, at very least it's a waste of space on the users' hard drives as well as a waste of a lot of bandwidth.

Maybe you could repost what you wrote here about making sure the beds are made correctly in another thread? I'm afraid it might get buried here.

You know, that could have been my problem...I have downloaded just about every new bed I could find, all the recolors to go with them, and so many deco items. I was getting lots of crashes...then my video card died.

Motoki, could having too many of these things in my game break the video card, or do you think the card was defective? I had an ATI Radeon 9200. At the time it broke I had just shy of 3GB in my dl folder.