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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Aug 2010 at 5:04 PM Last edited by Bloody Lemon : 24th Aug 2010 at 12:07 PM.
Default 3D max
I'm yet a noob for sims creations but I really like to learn how to create clothing, accessories by using 3d max. I'm advanced user of 3d max so I like that program the best for this.

I was reading lot of tutorials and forum help threds like this about 3d max : http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=141597

but since that is preeetty old thred from four years ago and for the sims 2, I just want to be sure if things are still done the same with the sims 3 creations when it comes to 3d max.

does anyone use 3d max to create sims 3 CC, if so help would be greatly appreciated .

and do I still need milkshape program if I use 3d max?

Anyhow thanks for anyone who can help me out
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Theorist
#2 Old 23rd Aug 2010 at 5:09 AM
As far as I know max does not have any plugins at this point which means that you can mesh in max but you still need to use milkshake for bones and stuff like that.

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#3 Old 23rd Aug 2010 at 10:15 AM
Unless you can get a clothing mesh in and out of Max with bone assignments intact (maybe using the SMD format?) it really shouldn't be used for clothing, unless you want to hand-assign every vertex again once it gets into Milkshape.

Making accessory shapes and stuff in Max and then doing the bones in Milkshape would be completely doable though.

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Sockpuppet
#4 Old 23rd Aug 2010 at 4:29 PM
The only way is indeed with a smd plugin(half life) but you still need Milkshape to convert the file so you can export it as WSO(TSRW plugin) or GEOM(CTU/Wes H plugin)
Alchemist
#5 Old 24th Aug 2010 at 3:51 AM
Max, Maya, C4D and a few others are really powerful, but expensive programs... generally, the users that have these aren't attracted to tweaking games, most make original game assets and sell them. I don't have Max (or C4D), so I only ever wrote a Maya plug-in (and haven't even updated it for Maya 2011).

If Mete had stayed up with his MilkShape development, we would have good COLLADA and FBX plugins, which should make interworking with a lot of other programs, including 3DS Max, possible. But the existing COLLADA plug-in doesn't support animation, and the FBX plug-in is really old and cranky (although I have gotten geometry and animation between Maya and MilkShape with it, albeit with some extra work and error-fixing).

I think you may be overlooking Blender as a tool for bridging. There are plug-ins for GEOM and MODL/MLOD formats for that, as well as some for other formats that may be easier to work with in Max. But that exhausts the list of free things. Besides MilkShape (which is cheap but not free), another tool that has worked well for me converting file formats is Ultimate Unwrap 3D (UU3D). It has a very extensive set of plug-ins for most of the formats you can name (other than .max), even including one that works with the MilkShape native format. People I know use it to convert files from MilkShape to COLLADA so they can stick them into various game engines. However UU3D is also not free, it costs about twice what MilkShape does.

That sums up what I know on the topic.

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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#6 Old 24th Aug 2010 at 11:38 AM
Sooo, to make this to myself more clear does this mean that I can make mesh in 3d max, and then import the mesh to milkshape to make bones and asign every vertex - (rig the mesh) and then export it into file that can be added to the game. (Hopefully using the Unitool of Delphy.) And about making the unwrap, can I do that for the mesh in 3d max before importing the mesh to milkshape or should I rather use UU3D? And then make diffuse, normal, specular maps in photoshop.
Sockpuppet
#7 Old 24th Aug 2010 at 3:17 PM
If you want to create clothing meshes you do not want to assign every vertex, its a huge ammount of work.
I would:

*Export basegame meshes either with TSRW or CTU *Import those in Milkshape using either Wes his GEOM plugin(CTU) or the WSO plugin(TSRW)
*Export the mesh as smd file(or watever supported format) and import it in 3Dmax
*Make your edits to the existing mesh then export them as smd file(or other supported format)
*Reimport it back in Milkshape and export either as GEOM or WSO file
*Import the mesh back into the package(WRK file) in CTU or TSRW.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#8 Old 24th Aug 2010 at 4:04 PM
Sounds good but how big changes can I then make with the existing mesh? (in the max) Since I really would like to do major changes to the mesh.
Is it really huge amount of work if I would assign all the vertexes to the new custom mesh (in milkshape) since I been doing alot of rigging to even really higpoly meshes and yea it's tiring but if that's the only way I can make any type of clothing, shoe meshes for the sims then it's worth of the pain. Has anyone else ever done this or has everyone staid away from asigning every vertex?
Sockpuppet
#9 Old 25th Aug 2010 at 4:35 AM
Reassigning shoes isn't that bad.
Alchemist
#10 Old 25th Aug 2010 at 5:33 AM
There are two automated rigging plug-ins for MilkShape (one I wrote), but neither does a really great job (nor do the ones in Max or Maya, really). As I posted, it is likely you can use something like Max->FBX->UU3D->MilkShape to get fully rigged and skinned meshes into MilkShape and then on into the game. Depends on how hard you want to do it.

All Sims 3 clothing items use minor variants of the same skeleton (well, there are three: adult, child and toddler). You can't just make a good rig and use it, the design was done so that the clothes fit all the same age-group sims and can all be interchanged... so the neck, waist, and ankles all have very specific vertex counts and assignments. While you can make something different from that 'standard', it will not fit and match up with any of the standard game stuff.

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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#11 Old 27th Aug 2010 at 10:59 AM
so is this task is impossible? Or is there a chance that I could make the riggins exactly that they match up with all of the standard game stuff? (Like having the base clothing's rigs as guides) Where can I find the automated rigging plug-in for milkshape that been written by you Weshowe? (it would be still good help even if the automatic stuff never are perfect) and please someone tell me, can I use max for unwrap too or only milkshape or UU3D?

EDIT: Please reply, I really need to know, please.
Alchemist
#12 Old 27th Aug 2010 at 5:35 PM
It is in the Sims 2 section, here.
But it is not a rigging plug-in, just a skinning tool (automated skin weighting). I haven't revised it since 2007, though.

I wouldn't say it is impossible, at all. BUT, you won't find much ready-made support already done for Max. Here is what you can find:

1. Tools (S3PE and Postal) and specs on reading and writing game data chunks from the archives (.package files).
2. Complete specs of the game mesh and animation formats (on the wiki), for anyone that would want to write a Max converter.
3. Plug-ins for MilkShape and Blender that can interface with these file formats, from which interchange to other formats can be done.

Applying the items in that list to your problem will require some work. None of the tools or specs we have came from EA, they have allowed it to happen, but have not otherwise given any support to the effort. All of it was done by independent research and the tools came from the unpaid sweat of numerous volunteer brows.

If you really want to do this, you might think of starting at the beginning, which would be working on choosing Blender or buying MilkShape and learning how to get meshes (unmodified) into and out of the game. Until you can master that, none of your other skills will be useful. Then you can work on figuring out how to transfer the meshes into and out of Max. I know it can be done, but none of the 'standard' mesh formats provide a simple one-button solution. Most will allow you to manage the meshing and UV mapping in Max. The rigging (there is a game standard rig you are stuck with) and skinning parts will be where the most effort will be required, because those elements do not seem to be so easy to transfer between packages.

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#13 Old 27th Aug 2010 at 6:57 PM
Alright I start working on that matter and thank you all of all the information.
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