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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 28th Nov 2012 at 12:02 AM Last edited by sciguy77 : 29th Nov 2012 at 12:42 AM.
Default Can a full body morph be created by combining separates? ***SOLVED!
I'm working with a custom body mesh that doesn't match the "normal" EA tops and bottoms. I reworked the mesh into a nude top and bottom with morphs, but I want to make full body outfits to avoid mismatched body shapes in CAS. Is there a way I can combine the separate morphs I have to make a full body set? If that isn't possible, can I do something that will automatically load a top or bottom's matching half in CAS? I don't have a lot of CC installed, but finding matching sets is not a pleasant experience. Full body is the way to go.
Screenshots
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Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#2 Old 28th Nov 2012 at 3:13 PM
If you're using TSRW you'd just clone a fullbody mesh with two meshgroups and load these in, so I'm guessing you're using GEOMs.

For GEOMs, for each morph make a BGEO using the top as lod1, the bottom as lod1_1, top as lod2, bottom as lod2_2, etc. Clone a fullbody mesh with two meshgroups with S3OC and replace base lod1 with your top, base lod1_1 with your bottom, etc. Then replace the BGEO with yours.

Does that answer your question?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#3 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 12:42 AM
AWESOME Cmar! I've been trying to suss this out on my own and having absolutely NO LUCK AT ALL. I've been working with GEOM's for now -- the poly count is so high (15,625 for the full body) TSRW freezes, and I don't want to reduce it until I have a working full body mesh to be sure the waist seam doesn't become an issue. This all makes perfect sense now -- back to meshing! Woot!!
Sockpuppet
#4 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 1:54 AM
if TSRW freezes its not of the high polycount, Jessi is about 60.000 polygons and splitup in 4 meshgroups and i have no problems loading the meshes,
You might exceeded the joint limit of 60?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#5 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 3:10 AM
Hmmm, not sure what the problem with TSRW is then. When I open the package, I get the error "Index was outside the bounds of the array". Nothing will show up in the view window until I click something in the project area. I can't do anything with the mesh area either. I can select the 3 lod's, but nothing changes and I can't import or export any meshes. I assumed it was due to the high poly count. The morph sliders work though.
Joints are an area of meshing I haven't worked with (or even understand) at all. I don't even know how to get the bone count off the meshes I have. I've been cheating by using the Mesh Toolkit auto-tools or the WELD TOGETHER trick in MS3D. It's becoming obvious I'm going to have to learn how to deal with them now though. This body mesh has no clothing reference meshes available to copy from.
I just went through the tutorial to create lod3_1 for the afBodyDressTight_Halter, but used S3OC to clone the package instead of CTU. Much to my surprise lod3_1 already existed when I did a deep clone, and there is only a single VPXY file in the package. Not really pertinent to this project, just thought I'd let you know.
Sockpuppet
#6 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 4:15 AM
a correct build package should open in tsrw.
You might have the comments wrong in the GEOM?


Each lod/mesh can use up to 60 joint assignements max, if you exceed it you need a 2nd meshgroup.
Fullbodyoutfits often exceed that limit and have a 2nd meshgroup were a part of the mesh is loaded(usually a few fingers)

The tutorial is kinda old, i wrote it when we only had CTU to create clothing.
It does however explain how to add more meshgroups to a outfit.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#7 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 5:56 AM
The package I'm trying to open is the original body mesh by BobbyTH from BackAlleySims. I wanted to get the morphs from TSRW, it's so much faster than working with the lod's and BGEO's. If the comments are wrong I have no idea how to fix them. They aren't the same as a default EA body are they? Could the TSRW error be caused by lod2 and 3 being the EA defaults? I can copy the comments from another mesh or turn a mesh into a morph, but beyond that I'm clueless about their contents. Bobby said his system uses lod1 at all distances and the lower lod's were never made for this mesh. I've made several with different poly counts, but haven't decided on which ones I'm going to use when I'm ready to start making CC, nor have I tried putting them into a package to test in TSRW. I'm trying to find a balance between enough detail to do the mesh justice and a low enough poly count that everyone with slower systems can still use them.

This is additional info so no one will think I'm trying to take any credt AT ALL for someone else's hard work. Bobby is aware that I'm working with his body meshes. I've left him a few messages on the Creator Forums thread at BAS, as well as a few screenies of a monokini mesh I made to fit the body. It was when I tried to export the monokini's UV Map from Lithunwrap that I got an error saying the poly count was too high to be exported as an MS3D file. If I'm going to work with this body I have to reduce the poly count OR split the mesh.
Just today I found default replacements for this body in both adult and teen sizes. There's no full body mesh for either one though, each is done as separate tops and bottoms and are posted in 4 different packages. Each package contains 1 key, 3 geoms, and 4 bgeo's. I haven't looked closely at them yet, but I think lod2 and 3 are EA default bodies.
I'm really looking forward to making CC with this body, but won't make any more until I have a good, stable, full body nude mesh to work with. That will include all 3 lod's and morphs. Whatever CC I do make will probably end up in its own lod group (i.e. lod1_2, etc). I haven't even attempted the pregnant morph yet. There are some pics of a pregnant morph posted, but the mesh itself has never been released. I'm hoping I can get a copy of the work that Bobby has done -- nothing I'm able to make at this point even comes close to what has already been started. It looks finished to me!
Sockpuppet
#8 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 7:35 AM
I didn;t know he made the shape for sims 3 aswell?
Its not a sims2 package is it?(you can not open those with sim 3 tools)

I have to worn you that multilayered clothing is pretty hard for sims 3, there is just not enough room on the map(but you know that already)
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#9 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 11:38 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
I didn;t know he made the shape for sims 3 aswell?
Its not a sims2 package is it?(you can not open those with sim 3 tools)


This is a Sims 3 mesh based on one of his Sims 2 bodies. I've got the bikini installed in my game and it looks pretty awesome. He said he probably won't do any more meshing for Sims 3 because the tools just aren't available to work in Blender or 3DS Max. If you want the packages, the bikini is HERE and the default replacements are SOMEWHERE on the BAS adult site! I just tried to locate them again with no success even though I downloaded them a few hours ago. I think there would be a lot more interest in this mesh if it were more readily available. I mean -- I know it exists, just downloaded it a short while ago, and couldn't find it again when I was looking for it! The teen mesh is pictured, you can tell by the arm position it's a Sims 3 mesh.

I plan to make the meshes normally, just split them into sub-lod's to package them up. I've had enough layering for a while!
Screenshots
Sockpuppet
#10 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 1:51 PM
you best try to get the morphs with toolkit then, from the Bgeo's(thought that was possible)
Someone is working on a import/export plugin for 3ds max tho(on TSR)
Import works already

You prolly can get the meshes with a older TSRW version(RC4 for instance) exept that those versions are hard to find....

Edit,
Oh, google is still my friend:
http://www.4shared.com/get/wWjogzTn/tsrw_rc4_v2.html
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#11 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 4:24 PM
I've got the full body morphs now, at least for the original high poly meshes. More importantly though, I have the bgeo's for the full body morphs. Now I can start playing with the poly counts and make their morphs as full body also. I expect to have a working package with all lod's and morphs sometime late this evening. I'm HOPING the package will behave in TSRW once all the lod's are made from the same mesh with identical bone assignments.
I prefer to work in TSRW, but in this case the geoms and Mesh Toolkit was the easier option with the tools I had available at the time. Still, thanks for the link to the older version of TSRW. Leave it to the Russians to keep the good stuff available for the rest of us!
Another unrelated note -- I watched a few tutorial videos for Blender and WOW! I gotta learn how to use it! My jaw was hanging open while I watched a 3D head get sculpted and then the wireframe mesh "snapped" to it. I'm gonna look into 3DS max next. I like the fact that Blender is free, but if I'm going to learn a new piece of modelling software I'm going to go with the one that will work best for me. If I'm not mistaken both 3DS Max and Blender work fine with OBJ files, and I can use MS3D to make those meshes Sims friendly. Assigning the bones will still be an issue until I have some new stuff I can copy from. I gotta say though, if someone is working on the 3DS Max exporter there's a HUGE advantage in going that way.
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#12 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 6:30 PM
If you're going from GEOMs to TSRW, be sure to convert the meshes using Toolkit rather than exporting GEOMs as WSO with Milkshape, which doesn't convert the bones/joints correctly. Keep the top and bottom as separate meshparts and TSRW should be able to import them. Or if it's in package form I guess TSRW can import that. Also, WSO meshes don't have comments, so if that was causing your import problems you must have been importing a .package.
Instructor
#13 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 8:51 PM
Yeah I learnt that also - I made one body mesh that way. I imported the GEOMS and exported as WSO and the bone assignments went all over the place. I had to scrap the mesh and also one thing you also may need to redo your UV map.
Bobby did recreate that for Sims 3, it does look good in game. Polycount is easier to manage in 3 than the Sims 2 one.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 29th Nov 2012 at 9:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by CmarNYC
If you're going from GEOMs to TSRW, be sure to convert the meshes using Toolkit rather than exporting GEOMs as WSO with Milkshape, which doesn't convert the bones/joints correctly.

Well, THAT explains the wonky arms I kept having to replace on the layered top. I was switching back and forth from geom to wso all the time while trying new things.
I just tried to replace lod1_0 and lod1_1 in TSRW using the original meshes. All I got was a message that said ERROR and TSRW shut down. I'm going to work exclusively with geom's until I get this package complete.
The poly count on the bottom has been reduced 50% and the difference in appearance is almost zero. The count is still a lot higher than the EA default, but I think all but really outdated systems will be able to handle it. I did a little work on the right shoulder so the left and right arms are interchangeable now. While I was replacing the R shoulder with a L mirror I tweaked the UV map too. The mesh was small enough without the arms to export out of Lith. That should prove handy when lod2 and 3 are made. It sure made replacing the arms a lot easier when I cut lod1 down by 50%. I plan to rework the navel a little too. There are 150 faces on that tiny spot alone. It makes for an awesome mesh, but not really practical for normal gameplay. Now it's break time -- I'll do more later! Thanks everyone for chiming in with tips and tricks to get this full body version of the mesh up and running!
Sockpuppet
#15 Old 30th Nov 2012 at 4:25 AM Last edited by BloomsBase : 30th Nov 2012 at 4:38 AM.
I personal would not edit a nice mesh like that.
Dont worry about the polycount, 15000 for a fullbody will just work fine.

WSO has a diffrent joint order then GEOMS, i have a conversion file somewhere but you can use Toolkit for it aswell.
The WSO skeleton is here: http://www2.modthesims.info/showpos...99&postcount=18
You still might want to use it after you boneassigned Bobby's mesh and want to finetune the assignements(with Milshape's ANIM tool)

If you are planning to use the mesh for adult related stuff(bit like the shirt you made) i do want to warn you that there are paysites arround stealing your nice work and uploading it as pay item.
Already happened to Cmar and me.
Reason i stopped sharing my work

The 3ds MAX plugin is here: http://forums.thesimsresource.com/i...57#entry2303857
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#16 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 2:20 AM Last edited by sciguy77 : 1st Dec 2012 at 5:22 AM.
You guys must be psychic. I was as careful as I know how to be, but STILL ended up with a bone problem in the assembled package! The problem came in with the shoulder I fixed not getting the proper bone assignments. Rather than come whining here I knew what to do to fix it. So, 40 morph meshes and 6 lod geoms, and 6 wavefront .obj files later, the full body version of this body is ready to release. Just for a little variety I'm gonna throw in a few painted-on dresses until I can get some cool meshed outfits done. I'm still at a loss as to why this package won't open properly in TSRW though. Whatever caused the issues with the original package has been copied forward into the full body version. Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this? it takes me SOOO long when I do all the bgeos and morphs manually. I want to work with this body for a while, and until I can get it working in TSRW properly I have to do it that way -- ACK! When I try to load the separate base .obj meshes into TSRW, I get an error telling me to make sure the # of verts is 2190 and the import fails??? Will the older version of TSRW deal with that? I've downloaded it, but haven't installed yet. Anyway, I'm going to remove the shadows from the legs on this cute little outfit, then post it on BAS and submit it here.
Screenshots
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#17 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 5:02 AM
Could you upload the mesh you're trying to import into TSRW so I can take a look?

Also, you need to blur the naughty bits in that pic. Wouldn't want you to get In trouble.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#18 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 5:28 AM
Naughty bits blurred -- Oops!
Here are the meshes I've been trying to open in TSRW. I create a new project, load the afBodyDressTight_halter, and try to import these 2 meshes as lod1. Things go all sideways at this point ---
Thanks again for all the help with this. One of these days I might actually learn how to do this stuff.
Attached files:
File Type: 7z  lod1.7z (234.2 KB, 325 downloads) - View custom content
Sockpuppet
#19 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 10:23 AM Last edited by BloomsBase : 1st Dec 2012 at 10:35 AM.
Those are obj file?
And the top crashed my milkshape

after running the top through 3ds max i was able to import it in MS but i needed to redo the normals and the mesh had few unsnapped vertices on the back of the right shoulder.
After fixing those and exporting i ran them through toolkit , boneassigning and creating morphs.(Gotta love that tool!)
Both import fine in TSRW and morph and animate correct.
If you are going to continue with these you do need to fix the normals on the neck
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: 7z  MTS_sciguy77_1337533_lod1.7z (896.7 KB, 318 downloads) - View custom content
Instructor
#20 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 1:09 PM
Looks great and the one you shared at Back Alley Sims looks perfect. I've downloaded but not tried it yet
Had the same happen to me Bloom regarding my stuff, gone into semi retirement over it.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#21 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 2:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
Those are obj file?
And the top crashed my milkshape

That's odd, I never had any issues with opening this mesh in MS, only TSRW. I sent you the .obj files because the only options to import a mesh into TSRW are as WSO's or OBJ's. Since I couldn't ever get the mesh to load, sending you a WSO seemed kinda pointless.
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
after running the top through 3ds max i was able to import it in MS but i needed to redo the normals and the mesh had few unsnapped vertices on the back of the right shoulder.

I thought I had all those vertices on the R shoulder fixed! I did tweak the shoulder so the L and R arms could be mirrored. When making so many meshes to accomodate the morphs states and lod's, that was a no-brainer to keep the hands animating properly. I'm not really sure why the normals gave you problems -- maybe I sent an obj that hadn't been corrected. The package I tested in-game looks awesome.

Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
If you are going to continue with these you do need to fix the normals on the neck

I'll get right on fixing the normals. I converted this to the full body package so I can load my game with lots of CC using this body and not have to deal with locating the matching separates in CAS. Thanks so much for getting this to work in TSRW Bloom, I can now spend less time manipulating meshes and more time making new ones!
Sockpuppet
#22 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 3:39 PM
ye, only the top crashed MS(i have to say im running it with the MESA fix) maybe that Cmar can confirm.

I spotted the area of the verts after it came out of M3d max and could not fix the normals on the back shoulder.
You probably can reproduce it by importing the obj with autosmooth on in MS, 2 or 3 vertice are not connected when trying to alligne the normals.

I didn't fix the neck and i saw you also have to fix the ankles
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#23 Old 1st Dec 2012 at 4:05 PM
I don't know enough about obj (as in I don't know ANYTHING) to say what the problem might be. Bloom seems to have the situation well in hand!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#24 Old 2nd Dec 2012 at 6:01 AM
Thanks again to everyone, especially Cmar and Bloom. The full body nude is available on the BAS website. I'm not going to release it here for the same reason I had to go back and edit the screenies. I am working on my version of a pair of shorts Bobby made, and when it's done that WILL get released on MTS as long as they pass for PG-13. They're kinda "cheeky". I've been a huge fan of Bobby's Sims 2 stuff but could never use any of it cuz I don't own the Sims 2. My version will be nowhere near as detailed as his, But I'm really trying hard to do them justice with the tools I know how to use.
Just a side note -- When I was working on the lod2 body, I converted it from geom to wso using toolkit. It opened fine in TSRW, but the mesh had a ginormous gap even though the mesh looked fine. I had to use the auto-assign bones tool to get it corrected. I'm thinking this modified waist is going to come back and bite me in the butt before too long. I'm starting to get a feel for just how important bone assignment are though -- maybe I'll be able to handle it by myself now if it should come up again!
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