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The ModFather
retired moderator
#651 Old 17th Dec 2006 at 9:39 AM Last edited by Numenor : 17th Dec 2006 at 9:53 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by wes_h
Each of these 19 data sets is not necessarily a complete morph as used in the game, but a part of one that the artists built, and then selected different parts-pieces from several to make into a morph for the whole model.


You mean that they are still into the GMDC but the game doesn't call them any more? Mmmhh... As far as I know (not 100% sure...), the blends are called by name from the ANIM files; so, examining the ANIMs from the cow plant can tell us something about that...
But I can see a visual difference between the morphs used in the food (that instantly change one mesh into another) and the ones used in the cow-plant (the animation is much smoother, as if all the intermediate morphs are used to transform the mesh from the initial shape to the morphed one, then back to the initial one.


EDIT - Changing subject, you wrote about smoothing:
Quote: Originally posted by Wes_h (in post #256)
I have seen the color differences on several meshes, just like you noted. I directly cannot do anything about it, since the exporter relies on the normals that MilkShape has stored in memory. Since welding and smoothing alters the normals, what gets exported is not the same as what was originally imported.

Probably I don't know Milkshape's functions very much, but is Milkshape supposed to modify the welding and/or normals automatically, even with the Autosmooth off? I ask becasue MaryLou reported to me that just importing and immediately exporting a food mesh usually alters the smoothing...

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Alchemist
#652 Old 17th Dec 2006 at 12:43 PM
I intend to pick this up in the R&D/morphmods thread from before.
There are indeed some complexities that don't show in meshes with small morph counts.
<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
The ModFather
retired moderator
#653 Old 17th Dec 2006 at 11:51 PM
I've moved the posts related to the morphs in general to the Morphmod thread.

Let's keep this thread exclusively for comments strictly related to the current Unimesh release.

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Test Subject
#654 Old 19th Dec 2006 at 6:49 PM Last edited by aayla_secura : 19th Dec 2006 at 6:59 PM.
I don't I can find the answer anywhere so I just ask it:
I do know the plugins are free but is milkshape free?
The ModFather
retired moderator
#655 Old 19th Dec 2006 at 9:31 PM
Milkshape is a pay program; it allows a free trial period of 30 days, and then, if you want, you have to buy a license.

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Admin of Randomness
retired moderator
#656 Old 19th Dec 2006 at 10:11 PM
Milkshape is $25 to register. If you can't do it yourself, ask someone to register it for you as a gift. It's well worth it (and cost less than your sims game did)

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
Game Help | Create | Content List | Where Can I Find?
Test Subject
#657 Old 20th Dec 2006 at 9:43 PM
Default Thanx!!!!
Thanx wes, I know this is late, but one question: How do I download this?

I tried to click the WinZIP icon, but It shows up on my WinZIP and I don't know how to download. When it comes to stuff like this, trust me-I'm a noobie.


Thanx,

Gprincess1024
Admin of Randomness
retired moderator
#658 Old 20th Dec 2006 at 10:03 PM
Go to the GAME HELP area of the site and learn how to download, although you wouldn't install this plugin into your downloads folder, but into your milkshape. Also try looking for WinZIP documentation. I can assure you that meshing is a LOT harder than this, so you need to be able to figure these things out.

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
Game Help | Create | Content List | Where Can I Find?
Test Subject
#659 Old 21st Dec 2006 at 4:34 AM
Default Thanx so much!!
Oh, thanks, tiggerypum, so much. What would I do without you?


Thanks,

Gprincess1024
Systemic Anomaly
#660 Old 30th Dec 2006 at 5:09 AM
Wes,

Is there an easy way of interpolating bone weights between vertices when dividing an edge or subdividing a face? The behavior I am observing is that milkshape just grabs up one of the vertex weights and assigns it to the new the one on a divide edge. No assignment is made on a subdivide. I'm trying to increase the resolution on a section of mesh, but finding the process of assigning weights on a vertex by vertex basis to be exceedingly painful. I keep thinking there must be an easier way than manually interpolating every single weight to the newly added verticies. Is there any way to mitigate this pain?

J
Alchemist
#661 Old 30th Dec 2006 at 6:46 AM
I lucked into this job because I could write code, not because I was a master mesher. The subdivide no assignment issues are known. Your pain has been felt.

Perhaps the selection subdivision technique could help. You didn't hint at the project, so let's use a Sim right arm, from wrist to shoulder.

After all your subdivisions are done, start by selecting all the vertices in the upper arm and assigning them to the r_upperarm. This is easy... drag-select the vertices, then pick the bone tool from the vertices menu. On the first vertex showing, set the first box to 100% r_upperarm, click on "Apply to All" and then on "Commit All"
Do the same with the lower arm, assigning to r_forearm.
Now make a selection that covers the elbow, plus above and below a row of faces. Make this 50% r_forearm and 50% r_upperarm.

Your next step would be a band that covered a little each side of the elbow, and make those above 75% upperarm and 25% lower arm. Below the elbow, it would be 75% lowerarm and 25% upperarm.

So as you scan down the arm from the top, you have a 100% upperarm, a band 75% upper/25% lower, a band at the elbow 50/50, then 25% upper/ 75% lower, and finally 100% lower.

This will work. But by selecting in bands and applying a common value to these rings, you should get more assignments done faster. If you look at the values in Maxis-made meshes, you see they had to have used a similar technique (and maybe with something fancier than my sad old bone tool).

Shoulders and hands are a little tougher. But use the Apply to All for an intelligently select group to avoid vert-by-vert edits.

<* Wes *>

I don't know if I have the skills to spread the blending automatically. I can envision something that might calculate the distance from the vertex to the nearest and next-nearest joints, and assign the skin-weights based on the ratio. Poser does something like that automatically whe you use their default skeleton.

If you have a better idea, I'm always ready for something well-thought-out. The hardest issue is that a list of vertices doesn't look like anything without the human factor.

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Systemic Anomaly
#662 Old 30th Dec 2006 at 7:21 PM Last edited by jase439 : 30th Dec 2006 at 7:38 PM.
Alas, I was afraid this might be the case.

I have seen the banding technique to which you refer, and it works great through the arms and sections of the torso. However, I'm working on the torso and lower body to experiment with a new pregnancy geometry. Unfortunately, Maxis does not employ this banding technique throughout the body, especially through the hips and upper thigh where the verts are triple weighted with the pelvis, right or left thigh, and spine0 in varying degrees. Shoulders, as you noted, suffer from a similar problem.

I've started working on a poor-man's tool that will parse an ObjX file and apply a distance-weighted interpolation of the neighboring bone weights to any vertex that isn't already assigned (similar to what you describe, except I would be using the distance between verts that have assigned bone weights already to "fill in the holes"). We'll see how this goes. Hopefully it will get me where I need to be. If the technique works, it could be extended to be more general purpose, but I know next to nothing about Milkshape plug-ins.

Thanks for the response.

J

EDIT: Is there any requirement that the bone weights appear in descending order (by % weight) in the ObjX file?
Alchemist
#663 Old 30th Dec 2006 at 10:42 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jase439
Is there any requirement that the bone weights appear in descending order (by % weight) in the ObjX file?


No. I have seen examples from Maxis-made meshes where the skin weight order is not descending, although that is the most common arrangement. And the plugins don't really care about the order, either, unless you try to leave and empty slot (for example bones = 1, -1, 6 and weights 50, 0, 50). This would likely come back to you as bone = 1, weight = 50). They do not sort or rearrange the order, either.

I wish you good luck on the algorithm development. I think computing the vertice/bones distance will likely be the easier part. The rest is too much like AI.

Implementing it as a plugin is not too hard. I have already released source for the UniMesh plugins, and some of the vertex tools are almost shells with one or two small work subroutines. I don't know what you do your work in, mine here is in Visual C++ (6.0). <-- No .NET

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Instructor
#664 Old 31st Dec 2006 at 11:13 AM
Jase, all my wishes of success for this! Interpolating the weightings AND taking into account the distance to the next vertices made my brain overheat more than once - talk about a poor woman's tool! lol

Seriously, this is possibly the last annoying issue for body meshers after all Wes and Demon achieved (I'm not even dreaming about being able to test multiple weight animations in Milkshape) and such a tool would be much appreciated.
Locked thread | Locked by: tiggerypum Reason: go find the NEW thread and tools, link in first message
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