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Old 25th Oct 2018, 2:03 AM Default1 subset but 2 textures #1
ankoyume
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Is that possible for an object to use 2 textures on the same subset at the same time ?
I mean the way an outfit can do it (it uses the outfit texture and the skin texture at the time).

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Old 25th Oct 2018, 10:12 AM #2
simmer22
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Not that I know, except for when you use bump maps.

Clothing textures are really just overlays. Anywhere there's an invisible or transparent part of the texture, skin pokes through. They work different from objects, and only the "simskin" setting allows for this. I think walls/floors/groundcovers are overlays too, but I haven't seen this technique on other objects, so it's most likely not possible.

Depending on what you're trying to accomplish, there are some techniques you can consider:

One way is to combine the textures into one texture, and remap the mesh parts into one group.

Another way is to add more subsets to the object. You have to choose which two subsets you want to be recolorable, though. I've got objects with 3-5 subsets working fine, setting for instance metal or glass parts as the non-recolorable parts.

When I make objects with glass/plastic parts and some kind of label, I sometimes make a second mesh for any non-transparent pieces, making this mesh part a little bigger/smaller than the glass parts, depending on which effect I want (glass on the inside or outside). Here I can either use two different textures with different TXMTs, or two TXMTs/MMATs using the same texture.

If you want to get away with using one texture on an object with lots of layered transparent parts (using the Blend setting in the TXMT), it's also possible to layer meshes by using the same name on all the mesh parts and exporting/importing as GMDC instead of OBJ. That way the subset with the same name uses the same texture but layers properly.
Last edited by simmer22 : 25th Oct 2018 at 10:27 AM.
Old 25th Oct 2018, 2:51 PM #3
ankoyume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Not that I know, except for when you use bump maps.

(...)

When I make objects with glass/plastic parts and some kind of label, I sometimes make a second mesh for any non-transparent pieces, making this mesh part a little bigger/smaller than the glass parts, depending on which effect I want (glass on the inside or outside). Here I can either use two different textures with different TXMTs, or two TXMTs/MMATs using the same texture.

If you want to get away with using one texture on an object with lots of layered transparent parts (using the Blend setting in the TXMT), it's also possible to layer meshes by using the same name on all the mesh parts and exporting/importing as GMDC instead of OBJ. That way the subset with the same name uses the same texture but layers properly.


Big thanks for your answer. Even though I'm a little desappointed that it is not possible as this, I think my solution is somewhere in your answer. If only I could understand a thing ...
First you have to know that I want to use many Maxis meshes and textures, consequently my possibilities are really reduced. I'd rather add something that will be compatible, than modify existing mesh or texture, if that's possible...
It's the reason why the 2 last solutions seem better to my beginners' eyes.

I have questions, though (because I can't quite see how it can be apply) :
1- When you say "layering 2 meshes", do you mean you will have 2 GMDC/SHPE/GMND/CRES with the same name but different instance and group numbers, AND they will appear at the same time on the same object without glitch ?
I'm saying that because I've tried in-game to buy the object twice, change the appearance of one of them and put them together with moveobject on... the result is not really satisfying, because the meshes recover each others and the textures were fighting to be seen over each others.
2-If I only create a second TXMT for a texture that covers the transparent parts of the maxis texture I'm using (no new mesh), will that do the trick ?
3 How do I link those ?! (either the 2 meshes together, or the 2 TXMT)
4- What solution will use less "ko" ? two meshes or two semi transparent textures ?
5- I've known jadis what is bump maps, but not anymore. Is that usable on objects ?

Sorry that I don't understand a lot, I'm much more of a modder than a mesher, but I couldn't find a solution with the modding part...

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Old 25th Oct 2018, 9:43 PM #4
simmer22
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Some meshes have multiple GMDC/CRES/etc. but usually there's just one of each. Mostly this is meshes with multi-states like food or counters.

As long as the groups use opaque or black/White alphas (flowers, for instance), you can get away with doing a bit of remapping and using one texture. However, if there are transparent/glass parts there's going to be problems if there's just one TXMT. If you only have one texture and one TXMT, and everything is set to "blend" the mesh will have "bleeding-through" problems, where the parts with opaque textures don't know where to layer with the blend parts. You basically need to layer the mesh parts so that the opaque parts are in one layer and the blend/transparent/glass parts are in another, and that everything is in the correct order.

For instance if I have a vase with flowers and some sort of deco on the outside of the glass, but want to use just two textures or TXMTs, I'd name them as such:
-flowers (actual flowers, no blend)
-vase (actual vase, only transparent/glass parts, blend in the TXMT)
-flowers (decor part on outside of glass, no blend, same texture/TXMT as the other flower group)
and I'd export/import as GMDC.

You usually need to export as GMDC (same export as clothes/CAS items/animated items) and import via right-click/replace on the GMDC, because the OBJ export/import sometimes combines groups with the same name.

This trick can also be used for CAS items like hairs (together with the Opacity setting in the comments), to get proper layering but minimize the amount of textures used. Sometimes you can get away with "hair" and "hairalpha", only needing two textures/TXMTs per age, as long as the layering and opacity comments are carefully set up.

---

I'm still at a loss at what you're trying to do. Can you perhaps explain what you're trying to make? Maybe with pictures, or perhaps post the file(s) if you already have one you're tinkering with? It's much easier to explain something if I know what you're trying to accomplish. I get that you're trying to layer two meshes or some such, but then it would be helpful to know which meshes.

I also can't explain every single step of something without knowing what I'm supposed to explain. There are probably tutorials who might be of help, but again I need to know what you're trying to do to know which ones you'd need.
Last edited by simmer22 : 25th Oct 2018 at 10:25 PM.
Old 26th Oct 2018, 3:27 PM #5
ankoyume
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Thanks again for your help. I'll study all of that.

However, I feel like my project is a little ridiculous, it's the reason why I don't want to reveal details... Maybe I'll PM you when the thing will improve a little or if I'm really stuck.

Perhaps you'll tell me that it was already tried and failed by everyone before, and consequently undoable.

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Old 26th Oct 2018, 3:40 PM #6
simmer22
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Feel free to PM me

I have a vague idea of what you may be trying to do, but it would help with pictures or a better explanation. There's a lot of different methods to set up the recoloring process in a mesh, and sometimes you have to make a compromise or two to get it working.

A few examples:
------------------
1: You've downloaded a mesh or made a mesh, and you end up having to use more than two texture maps, or you have glass/metal parts in addition to two other subsets.
* Make more subsets, and put glass/metal parts that don't need recoloring in their own subsets so you have more room for the recolorable parts. Sometimes you can also remap the UV.
2: You want the object to share textures with another object.
* You can slave/repository two subsets to two different objects, as long as those objects have different subset names. May need UVmapping.
3: You need the object to have two subsets, but they can use the same texture (for instance textures where the glass is part of the texture, but the Blend setting makes problems for the non-transparent parts of the object)
* Have two subsets and two TXMTs/MMATs, but one TXTR referenced in both the TXMTs. If you recolor both subsets, you'll get only one texture when making recolors.
4: You want more than two subsets to be recolorable
* Technically not possible, so you'll need to select the two most important subsets to be recolorable. However, you can get around it by making two different objects and setting one up with slots, so you can easily combine them into one object ingame. This also works if you want stackable objects in different colors (like plates).
5: Object only has one subset, and you need more.
* You can make several subsets for an object (I usually limit it to 3-5, though), but only two can be recolorable.
Last edited by simmer22 : 26th Oct 2018 at 5:29 PM.
Old 26th Oct 2018, 5:22 PM #7
ankoyume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Feel free to PM me

I have a vague idea of what you may be trying to do, but it would help with pictures or a better explanation. There's a lot of different methods to set up the recoloring process in a mesh, and sometimes you have to make a compromise or two to get it working.

A few examples:
------------------
1: You've downloaded a mesh or made a mesh, and you end up having to use more than two texture maps, or you have glass/metal parts in addition to two other subsets.
* Make more subsets, and put glass/metal parts that don't need recoloring in their own subsets so you have more room for the recolorable parts. Sometimes you can also remap the UV.
2: You want the object to share textures with another object.
* You can slave/repository two subsets to two different objects, as long as those objects have different subset names. May need UVmapping.
3: You need the object to have two subsets, but they can use the same texture (for instance 4t2 conversions where the glass is part of the texture)
* Have two subsets and two TXMTs/MMATs, but one TXTR referenced in both the TXMTs. If you recolor both subsets, you'll get only one texture when making recolors.
4: You want more than two subsets to be recolorable
* Technically not possible, so you'll need to select the two most important subsets to be recolorable. However, you can get around it by making two different objects and setting one up with slots, so you can easily combine them into one object ingame. This also works if you want stackable objects in different colors (like plates).
5: Object only has one subset, and you need more.
* You can make several subsets for an object (I usually limit it to 3-5, though), but only two can be recolorable.


Wha ! It's really clear, thank you !
I'm trying something. The testing process is very long but I'll keep you in touch when I'll have reached a step.

I believe in the "Thanks" button and its amazing powers !!!
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