There is an article on CNN about a 14 year old girl who was outraged her mom (43), bought a top at her favorite store. Thus ensued an interesting debate about adult women shopping at stores geared for juniors.

The article then cites a study that moms are turning into consumer doppelgangers of their children shopping in teen stores so as to mimic the identities of their teenage daughters.

This sparked a healthy debate as to whether women should 'act their age' (grr) or whether women want these styles for various reasons verging from taking a shortcut to look 'cool and hip, or whether women are 'feeling younger and want to project their personality with clothing'

A psychologist chimes in and states that the mom's desire to wear juniors style clothing says this activity fosters a sense of competition with the daughter, and that it gives the teen girl an unfortuante message about how mom feels about herself, her age and insecurities and that she is not comfortable getting older'

What are your thoughts on this issue?

Here are my thoughts-

Do you think its ok for mom's to shop in junior's stores?
Do you think a teen girl should dictate that her mom shouldn't buy a tank at her favorite store?
Is there 'age appropriate' clothing anymore?
Is society overly critical about the way women dress?
Should people dress appropriately as befiting their age, and who decides what is appropriate?
Do you consider moms shopping at juniors stores a mother being competitive or just liking the style?
Do you think agree with the psychologists, that the boundaries between the 'adult world' and teen world should be respected?

I personally don't object, to mom's shopping at juniors stores. I think people should be able to wear what they want, but I'm curious what others think.

One thing's for certain- If you are over a size 10, do NOT wear boob tubes/tube tops. They do not look attractive.

Ha! Interesting. I think this is probably the key question. I think if anyone tried to tell me what clothes were appropriate for my age, the answer would comprise two words beginning with F and O.

Well I experianced this in my teen years, me and my mum have two very diffrent styles but she has always dressed young, she has copied me a few times whether my make up or when I've dyed my hair and sometimes fashion. I didn't really mind but people did think I was following my mum when in fact she was following me and it would gripe me because I'd get the 'Bless, just like her mum.' Grrrrrrrr. The plus side was we got to borrow each others clothes and I don't think it's harmfull for mums to shop at teen outlets if they wan't, I mean hey they're probally starting to feel old now that they're little girl is grown up and need the boost........ Who are we to tell them otherwise, dictate that they can't and they end up feeling bad

Sometimes though I do think women should dress a bit more discreetly, I mean I've seen some mutton dressed as lamb if ya know what I mean, 50+ wearing short skirts and strappy tops 'oh, god I'm blind!' But if they're happy go for it.

People will always be critical and women are competative with one another mums and teens included.
I suppose it just comes down to whether you give a shit about anyone elses opinion of you or not.

Hah! I agree. IT seems like people are always trying to control how women appear and act- however, this article sparked a lot of debate mostly between people who felt women should 'act their age' and those who felt women should be 'free to do as they please.'

What is age appropriate now adays? A lot of teen faction is simply adult stuff in smaller sizes. One of the writers suggested that teens should look 'cute' but adults should look sophisticated. But whats that supposed to mean? And why only women. LOL. I don't know many adult guys who look sophisticated either.

I'm going to assume that you are referring to the sexualized clothing that teenage girls often wear. I don't think there is anything wrong with older women dressing sexily, though I think that the type of 'sexy' clothing that teens and young adults often wear is more provocative than it is truly enticing and that it often relies on showing lots of skin, which may not be a strong point for an older woman. I don't think that there is anything wrong with someone dressing however they want to (though I think that businesses and the like are within their rights to set a dress code). But I do think that good taste dictates that older women not wear much of the type of clothing that younger women often wear.

As to being harmful - no I don't think it is. Teenage girls don't always emulate their mothers, and may, in fact, try very hard to not be like their mothers. People are typically more influenced by their peers than they are by their families, so mom looking a little desperate isn't likely to be extremely damaging to a teenage girl - particularly since she probably already has some sense of how she feels about herself by that point of her life, anyway. Yes, a person's self-esteem can change for better or worse, but the things that a person values that make him/her feel good about him/herself are probably already pretty well-formed.

No, a teenage girl should have no say in how her mom dresses. She can suggest that perhaps it would be in better taste for mom to wear something else, but mom has final say over what she wears.

Yes, there is age-appropriate clothing. I once saw two pre-teen girls walking through the mall, one wearing a mini-skirt, the other wearing booty shorts. That is not age-appropriate. As to women who have achieved an age at which sexualization is more appropriate, I think age-appropriate is based on how you look in the clothes you wear. A woman with saggy boobs isn't going to look right wearing a top that showcases cleavage, unless she's wearing a great bra that provides good support.

Parts of society are overly-critical about how women dress, but I think there are large swaths of society where it doesn't really matter how the average woman dresses. There are dress codes for businesses and public places, which are critical about how both sexes dress, but where it is appropriate to be critical. As far as fashion goes, it only matters to certain people. Most people don't care what you're wearing, as long as it isn't so gaudy it makes their eyes bleed.

People should dress however they want, but should be aware of what message they send when they wear certain things.

I don't think it is generally competitiveness, though there may be cases where it is. It's probably just a matter of mom wanting to feel sexy, which is a self-esteem booster for many women.

I'm not really sure what this last question even means. I think most of the reason why adults and teens act differently is because of the added wisdom and responsibility that often comes with adulthood, combined with the impression of how society sees each group paired with the desire to fit in. If you don't want to act like an adult, that's your choice, though any poor decisions you make in that state of mind are your responsibility.

I think something that needs adressing a lot more than this is GIRLS dressing older. I see it a lot and I'm horrified by it.
Worst one I saw was a girl of 6/7 dressed in a leapord print mini skirt, strappy crop top and knee high boots with heals and the full face makeup and she was with her mother who was almost dressed the same.
Now tell me, Why would a little girl need to dress like that? Why would her mother let her dress like that? and does that not encourage some form of phedophilia?
And everyone is worried bout the mums, its the kids people should worry about.

Leaving aside the off-topic attempt to derail the discussion...

Speaking as an older person, I don't see anything particularly wrong in principle with people dressing younger than their age. Until I started going gray in my beard I think people seeing me away from work probably thought I was a lot younger than I was, and if a woman in her 30s or older can pull it off I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Hell, I'm heterosexual enough to enjoy it.

But yeah, if you can't pull it off? Then it's like anything else - if something makes you look bad, or makes you look inappropriate (and teenage girls aren't exactly the go-to people for opinions on this sort of thing) then don't wear it. For me? I'm not subjecting the rest of you to the suffering me wearing shorts and a tank top in public might warrant. I'll wear what I want and what's comfortable around the house, but you don't want to see my armpits and pale, skinny legs right? So I don't want to show them to you. But if someone else can pull it off? More power to them.

Yes, I do!

Not harmful but maybe a bit strange

Depends, teen stores sell some appropriate clothes for older people also. I wouldn't want my mom walking around with a tank plastered with Hollister if that's what you mean

Yes

Trust me... an old guy trying to dress young and hip is just as bad as the women. But no I don't think so, women have more freedom then men in how they can dress.

Yes I think that they should and society/employers decide what is appropriate.

I think they're trying to be cool

It has a lot more to do with your body than age. Skintight clothing and fat doesn't look attractive or professional at any age.

And this is a problem?

It's good when Mothers dress like their daughters in fact saying it like that makes it sound weird. Older women always miss the days when they were younger and its kind of like they can relive their younger days with their daughters.

- Mothers should shop at whatever store feels right for them
- Nobody should tell anybody what to wear unless it would make them feel happier to dress in a certain way
- Society is very critical about the way people, not just women, dress. I am actually a man who wants to be a woman and dressing as like my lady friends would makes me feel happy but I get laughed at and sneered at by people who are ignorant. I have recently started dressing as a man again so I wouldn't get laughed at but my lady friends say it isn't 'me'.

Simslover please PM me if you want to talk because to me you seem very worried. I'm guessing you have a daughter you want to be friends with as well as a Mother.

Oh, you are very sweet. But no... I'm not worried about this at all (beyond my slight feminist disgruntlement). I jutst thought I'd start a debate since I haven't yet. I'm not a mother. I'm actually interested in this topic just because I thought it was kind of fascinating that people would have such diverse views of the way woman should appear. And I'm interested in the topics of women and how they are perceived and yes, I do occasionally shop in the juniors section if I see something I like.

It is very nice of you to be concerned though. It isn't everyday that people are so kind to worry about another and your sense of compassion is touching.

To be honest anyway, is there a certain way women should 'appear' these days? I was at the pub tonight one of my lady friends is whats called a 'ladette'. She prefers male company you very rarely see her with other women I can assure you she is very naughty and unladylike but that's just her I love her to bits she wouldn't be the same if she wasn't like that.

I think young fashion is made for young women (I'm middle aged) who want to draw attention to themselves and their assets for some possibly sociological reason like finding a mate or just celebrating their youngness. The young by the very fact of being young look good, and there's no denying it. But I think if an older woman buys her clothes in Forever 21 and they fit, I guess more power to her; it's not a big deal. Maybe it's delusional, and she'd look better in more dignified outfits, but what someone wears is their business.

May I ask why people disagree with the post I made above?

IDK. I agreed with it, Katy.

I think people are way too concerned about how women look. Period.

Whatever her reasons are for dressing the way she does, whether it's because she wants to appear younger, sexier, more desirable, or prefers clothing that covers her from head to toe and matches the wallpaper, her reasons are her business.

With that said, it makes me sad that women still feel like they have to dress in a way that garners the approval of the male gaze just to feel accepted. Unfortunately, when women reach a certain age, we become invisible, so many of us feel like we need to oversexualize our appearance to still be noticed. But I don't judge a woman for that, I judge the system that makes her feel that way.

I do agree with that, wickedblue especially 'women of a certain age.' Our culture is so youth focused that sometimes it is tough for women. Especially since our cultural values often considers youth=beauty.

I don't think women dressing up to gain the approval of men is a statement about our society so much as it is a statement about our biology. Reproduction is a powerful drive and feeling desirable makes one feel more reproductively successful. Women aren't the only ones who dress for the opposite sex. Many young men wear ridiculous things because they think they'll look cool and they'll get more attention from women. Women wanting to feel attractive is not society victimizing or brainwashing them, it's just a matter of those women wanting to achieve reproductive success, a drive that the majority of us have. And many women wear sexy clothing less to try to attract men and more because they simply feel good wearing it.

Individual motivations will vary from person to person. I was speaking of the collective.

I didn't say a damn thing about being victimized or brainwashed. What I said is that women are constantly subjected to the male gaze and that we disappear once we reach a certain age. Because we grow up in that environment, many without even being completely aware of just how deeply we are entrenched in it, will go out of our way to continue to appeal to the male gaze to continue to be visible. Some of us do it without even realizing that is playing a role and some of us do it knowing full well what the game is and resenting it every step of the way but feel powerless to get out of it. Then there's those like me and many others that just don't give a damn about any of it. Male gaze be damned.

This very article that the OP brought up for discussion is itself proof of what I was speaking of. Women are under constant scrutiny for our appearance. Yes, men are also scrutinized but it's not even close to the same thing and if you really paid attention and were being completely honest with yourself, you can't argue that it is. (collective you, not directed at anyone specific)

Women may go off the radar for men looking for sexual partners as they get older, though even that, I doubt. Many older men, granted, not all, but many, would prefer to have a partner of similar age.

As to non-sexual situations, I don't think women disappear at all. In most workplaces, women are judged by how they do the job, not how they look. My mother is in her late 40's and does not meet the media standard of ideal beauty, but she is greatly appreciated at her office because she is one of the most experienced workers they have. Same goes in academia. I have had many female professors that did not meet ideal beauty standards, but were valued by the university for their knowledge and skill. I don't meet the ideal, but I work hard in school and many of my professors value my input in class discussion. Is there some way that you feel marginalized? Because I don't.



I'm still not sure what exactly you mean by 'visible' in this context. If you are simply referring to the ability to get the attention of more than just your group of friends and colleagues, that's not something that matters to me. I don't want all eyes on me and I wouldn't find it rewarding if I had it. The only attention that matters to me is what I get from the people who matter to me.



Men are not scrutinized for their appearance in sexual situations the same way women are, but they are judged to some extent. If they weren't, we wouldn't be seeing a rise in anorexia among teenage boys. But I think you are looking too closely at the media's judgments and not enough at the values of average people. Not every woman is a size 0 supermodel with well-defined cheekbones, but most women are capable of making friends and finding a partner. Most women are capable of finding social acceptance, whether they meet the fictitious media standard of beauty or not.

In the case of the article, the teen daughter was also 'down on' her mom for buying clothing at 'her' store, even if it was only a plain tank top. The teen was judging her mom and embarrassed that mom was doing something she thought improper.

The pyschiatrist was even siding with the teen to some extent which I thought was pretty odd.

I would think a teen flipping out about mom buying a tank at any store... needs a thicker skin. Afterall mom pays for all her cute clothing.

Oaktree: I'm quite simply not up to 101 today so I'm going to bow out of this particular conversation. I'm not trying to be prickly and I hope that will be understood. I just don't have it in me. So I'll just suggest doing some reading, if you're really interested in exactly what I'm talking about. If you aren't, that's okay too.

I'm not the only woman who feels this way and there seems to be some confusion here about why I talk about this stuff, it isn't because I take it personally or feel victimized by it. See my earlier statement about being one of the women who just really don't give a damn. I stopped being visible YEARS ago because I'm OMGDEATHFATZ so I could really care less about sexual attention from random men. It's not something I ever wanted anyway.

But that doesn't change the truth of what I said about women being subjected to constant scrutiny for our appearance. And naming exceptions to this rule as you see them doesn't change that.

I think my tone is probably coming across more prickly than I intend so I'll just leave another disclaimer that I'm really not attacking. I just don't know how to make that clear with text. Maybe a bunch of smilies?

How about a beer?

First off there's no reason to swear at a level headed post. My experience is that when you feel good about the way you look then you will feel better about yourself (I think that this is true about everyone to a certain degree). Also your clothes can be very important in the professional world. There's also women trying to impress women (not in a lesbian way.) There's a lot more to the way that we dress then just trying to impress the opposite sex.

"Do you consider Mom's shopping at juniors store harmful?"

I really can't take this question seriously. With all the terrible things in the world, who thinks an adult woman shopping in a junior's store is 'harmful'?

"Do you think a teen girl should dictate that her mom shouldn't buy a tank at her favorite store?"

Well, she can TRY. However, her mom has the right to buy crotchless panties at Frederick's of Hollywood if she wants.

"Is there 'age appropriate' clothing anymore?"

There's clothing that's customary and generally expected and accepted for each age. Whether that means it's 'appropriate' is up to the individual.

"Is society overly critical about the way women dress?"

Absolutely. Women are criticised if we dress too sexy, not sexy enough, too young, too old, too stylish, too frumpy, too tight, too loose etc. etc. And yes, men are criticised for their appearance too, but IMO not to the same degree. And also yes, it's other women who do a lot of the criticising.

"Should people dress appropriately as befiting their age, and who decides what is appropriate?"

People should wear what makes them feel comfortable. Beyond that, I think it's more a matter of what looks good on a person than of age-appropriateness. I've seen a lot more teenagers and young adults in ridiculous clothing than older adults. (Yes, I'm being critical here.)

"Do you consider moms shopping at juniors stores a mother being competitive or just liking the style?"

Depends on the mom.

"Do you think agree with the psychologists, that the boundaries between the 'adult world' and teen world should be respected?"

I think the boundaries are artificial, at least in this area.

Also, it's very much true that women become invisible as we get older. The people who mentioned this aren't talking about being valued in the workplace or within the family. It's being noticed in a particular way - anything from guys jumping up to give you their seat on the subway to those same co-workers flirting with you at the office holiday party after they've had a couple of drinks. It's men trying to pick you up on the street, or garbagemen admiring your anatomy, or strangers grabbing your ass (I didn't say it was all good), or salesmen being especially friendly and helpful. It all depends on a woman's looks, and it goes away as she gets older, or gains weight, or was never good-looking. It's important to some women, and trivial to others. Unfortunately some women try too hard to hang onto it.