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Birgitte Heuschkel
31st Mar 2018, 1:31 PM
I played Sims 3 religiously for years until about six months ago when my computer crashed and I lost all my custom content, mods etc. Losing everything was such a turnoff that I simply gave up on the game for the longest time. But then, last week, I remembered that I had the Sims 2 Ultimate Collection from when EA was giving it away and I thought, well ... why not? It costs me nothing to try.

The Sims' interactivity and AI seems miles above their Sims 3 equivalents. Sure, the 3s are better at seeing to basic needs, but compared to the 2s, they're antisocial and lackluster. The 2s are just ... far more alive and unique. Each seems to have its own personality and attitude. This is a big deal, because I used to get bored with a Sims 3 family the instant it was settled financially and ready to just lie back and live life -- watching them antisocially potter about and visit empty venues just didn't do it for me. Time to start another family, build another house. In Sims 2, there seems to be always something to watch, whether it's sims fighting, falling in love, or just hanging out in a corner talking about their hobbies. I'm starting to understand why this game still has custom content produced and a loyal following despite being 15 years old.

I thought the load screens would kill me but in fact, they have not. Of course, the game being as old as it is, it loads stupid fast on a modern computer. But still, I can live with the idea of them, even when one thing I loved about Sims 3 was the open world. So now I am wondering -- should I go ahead and purchase Sims 4?

Well, actually ... should I go ahead and purchase the rest of Sims 4? I do have the vanilla game but I never got any of the expacs and stuff packs because the AI of it annoyed me to kingdom come. It seemed cartoony and repetitive and of course, there was the whole deal about missing toddlers and pools. But maybe these issues of lazy programming and bad business choices have been fixed after a few years?

Convince me to stick with Sims 2 and not waste my money on a game that I will get disappointed with, even if it has super sweet graphics compared to Sims 2's rather 2004 look. :lovestruc

Edited to add: It seems to confuse some posters why I am posting here, so let me clarify. I am not looking for the Sims 4 official hype. I can get that anywhere on the net. I am looking for the opinions of the steadfast, loyal Sims 2 players to tell me why they prefer this game over the newer incarnations. My choice of forum is not an accident.

SneakyWingPhoenix
31st Mar 2018, 1:42 PM
Not the best forum section to post such a thread, because 80% is obviously made up pf players that are only sticked or fond with TS2. Small nitpick, but I think this should be moved to TS4 or at least copy pasted there to get the response from both sides.

Point being, only a minority of TS4 causual players would have a tendency to visit this forum or of other sim titles.

Speaking of that, If you really find out the reception of the game, be sure ask and look around through other forms of media: the official forums, fanbase facebook groups, youtube reviews (I suggest LGR channel) gameplays, walkthroughts, let's plays, rant, overview and ect. Should to get basic picture and premise on how TS4 is doing.


As for my response/opinion, you shouldn't bother buying expansion If you still encounter issues with the latest update of the base game. Expqnsion packs and other dlc shouldn't fix the broken mechanics of the core base game (A.I.), they should be patched in the BASE GAME where they should belong. I wouldn't support such practice.

Birgitte Heuschkel
31st Mar 2018, 1:51 PM
I actually made the decision to post here because I -want- to hear the Sims 2 players' views. I can find the hype for 4 anywhere. The opinions of the 2 players, on the other hand, are few and rare in between.

kittenn1011
31st Mar 2018, 2:18 PM
I had pretty much the same experience moving from 3 back to 2 a couple years back. I'd stayed with 2 mostly originally because 3 was lackluster. When Sims 3 packs finally dropped in price I had picked a bunch up and played it for a couple years... And when I returned to 2, all the sims felt so alive again. I haven't played more than the base game for 4 and it feels even more lackluster to me than 3 ever did... And I ditched 3 for 2 even after I had all the expansions. Make of that what you will.

Bananensap
31st Mar 2018, 2:22 PM
I actually made the decision to post here because I -want- to hear the Sims 2 players' views. I can find the hype for 4 anywhere. The opinions of the 2 players, on the other hand, are few and rare in between.

Sims 2 loads faster than Sims 4 for me. Without even going in to detail, I'm choosing TS2.
For me it has to do with how the game 'feels' as a whole. There are a lot of factors involved;
1. Era
2. Development Team
3. Artist
4. Mindsets
5. Vision

These are just 100% on point with TS2 for me.
TS2 for me will always be superior for me.

Even if I wouldn't have played TS2 to this day and I would discover it, I would probably still choose TS2.
Yeah yeah... Nostalgia blah blah. No, I simply think that TS4 is generic and shallow... feels like a mobile game to me but with updated graphics.

I also think that they are missing the point of simulation, TS2 is pretty basic in it's core but has really deep meaningful gameplay.

Music... ah yeah, if the game is good but music is sheit I won't enjoy it, there is that. For me, everything has to be on point.
Luckily TS2 has a lot of great music! And you can even turn individual songs off/on, or even get TS1 music in :)

The game overall feels more realistic while in many ways it's not! But it has a lot of little things, interactions to make it feel realistic in a way but keep the good balance between fun and realism.

People say TS4 is like TS2 in its art style since "they are both cartoonish", while it's not. TS2 has the most detailed objects in the franchise. The sims themself yeah, can feel cartoonish.
But in TS2 beta sims themself were more 'shaded' and felt more realistic, which can still be accomplished by using the radiance mod.

The development team around ~2003 at Maxis were so ambitious and you can tell... with everything you see in-game.

After all it feels like a full fleshed -PC- game at base and really expanded with the expansions, they all kept in realistic but had goofy, fun, fantasy stuff but it felt more that those were kept in the background.
Those goofy, fun, fantasy stuff feels more embedded in the base gameplay in TS4 and is involved highly.

I can go on with this for hours... I'll just end it here.

I think you shouldn't listen to people like me, but just play the game and see for yourself. :!:

You probably think by now, you just said you weren't going in to detail, while I didn't. I kept it pretty general xD

omglo
31st Mar 2018, 3:20 PM
The best addition to Sims 4 was released for free - the toddler pack. It's not the best because it added toddlers, but because said toddlers added more depth and variation than any other expansion pack. The toddler traits are actually meaningful, unlike the traits for the older Sims that don't have a major effect on a Sim's personality. I've bought Get to Work, Get Together, Parenthood, Dine Out and Vampires. They all did add playability to the game, but they're hindered by the limited AI. The Sims are shallow, and it's clear by now that nothing is going to change that. Once the novelty of the packs wears off, there's not much to fall back on. TBH, part of the reason I bought all of those packs was because I wanted to convert the objects to TS2. And even the object development is lazy - the team has a habit of releasing the same objects in different expansion packs, with a different texture.

There are two things that happened in my game after buying all these packs - 1. Bob caught his wife, Eliza cheating in their home. He was mad, but he also thought that Eliza's bedroom was pretty. He got a Nicely Decorated buff that overrode his anger. The boyfriend stayed at the house, and they all had dinner together. 2. Two of my playables were uncontrolled on a community lot, and the son attacked his mother. immediately after the fight, they started talking like nothing ever happened. TS4 made a big deal about having emotions, but Sims 2's emotions are much more realistic.

JDacapo
31st Mar 2018, 3:51 PM
Heheh in Sims 2, you'll get to the point that if you stay on a public lot for long enough, certain townies will be at each others' throats - constantly. Poke, poke, shove, slap, poke, shove, poke, shove, slap, attack, poke, slap, shove, attack... until you see multiple fights during a visit to the grocery or clothing store. Kind of amusing though.

SneakyWingPhoenix
31st Mar 2018, 3:51 PM
I actually made the decision to post here because I -want- to hear the Sims 2 players' views. I can find the hype for 4 anywhere. The opinions of the 2 players, on the other hand, are few and rare in between.
It's good, as you should always ask different sides of player groups: those who play it (preferring it) or the other who prefer the other sim title, oppose to just one. TS2 fanbase would pretty much (the majority of them) be against TS4 for obvious reasons, while TS4 obviously majority are hyped about it.

I would honestly ask (4) x (1) y, (2) z and (3) d what they think about X (TS4). Just to get perspective from every player from the franchise to get the conclusion on what the game is like and from there decide whether to risk trying it out (to play) or not.

simmer22
31st Mar 2018, 4:11 PM
I prefer TS2 over the two others. Not sure why, I just do. I feel it's very storytelling and photoshoot friendly, possibly because I've played it since 2006, and I've got so many mods for it that's half the fun (that, and making new CC). Vanilla it might be a little boring, but modded I'm very happy with it. I also prefer the neighborhood setup, and feel it's less likely to bork up. Despite not having an open neighborhood, TS2 has the best neighborhood control, in that you can play as any households as you have room for, and the sims can interact.

I like a lot of aspects about TS3, except the look of unmodded sims (which is more than half the deal, really). But the game has also loaded very slow for me, and I ended up having troubles installing the last pack, and never bothered getting around to fix it. I sort of feel I'd have to get into storytelling mode and download a lot of CC to truly appreciate TS3, but never quite got to that point. The game is also very borked, and I can't keep a saved game for more than 10 saves. I also don't like te default one household per save thing.

As for TS4 I've had some fun with it and do have it installed, but I feel it's a bit too empty. There's tons of stuffpacks but hardly any EPs, and they've gotten to the point where SPs need EPs now, and it's jsut a bit too much. I easily get bored with it, and hardly bother getting CC because even an unmodded game has so many issues I can't bother getting mods to fix them all (sims flying around naked and/or invisible all the time, fast forward making sims get stuck, etc.). I'm also not too fond of the overly cartoonish style and the silly walks, constantly changing emotions that make little sense, and all the "overacting" of the sims. The most annoying thing is that neighborhoods are so limited. They look nice ingame, but they're completely useless. I like to have full control over the neighborhood and house placement, and TS4 doesn't give me that. I feel I'm mostly limited to one family at a time.

The collect/find/making deal TS3 and TS4 have got going is fun to begin with, but after a very short while it started getting old. I enjoyed it in TS3, but by the time TS4 came out the collecting stuff felt old, overused and repetitive. You just go around doing the same things over and over again. Even if the two others offer some more things to do, I feel TS2 is a bit more open and less controlled by the game makers.

maxon
31st Mar 2018, 4:32 PM
I have been buying TS3 EPs when they are on sale on Steam so I've managed to buy quite a few now and have been trying it out on and off. The difference for me is that I can't even remember the names of the TS3 sims I've made (except the dogs - I really like the dogs) but I can remember the life-stories of 100% of the 550 plus playable residents of Little Carping and could tell you a long story if you picked a name at random. That, for me, is the difference. I also own TS4 and I can't even remember opening the game though I know I have - it says so on Origin. The day I opened TS2 in September 2004, I was hooked, never played TS1 again (though I loved that game to death) and am still here 13 1/2 years later.

I like the look of TS3 - everything except the sims themselves and really like the open world. But I find it an uninteresting game to play.

Bulbizarre
31st Mar 2018, 4:50 PM
TS3 is fun. But I'm always drawn back to TS2.

Can't add anything on the debate, really, as I haven't played TS4 myself. But if you want to get a good runthrough of the expansion and stuff packs, look up LazyGameReviews - and check out some of his other videos at the same time.

moveobjects
31st Mar 2018, 5:08 PM
My experience playing The Sims 4 was being so happy with the CAS and all the options, and then getting into the game and immediately being so bored. In The Sims 2 you can have a sim angry with another sim, while in love with a second one, and both of those emotions show, they don't cancel each other like they do in The Sims 4, where emotions feel like they're a feature being showcased to the player, istead of being part of the sims. I've seen people in this forum in another thread saying that if you like playing rotations you should go with the Sims 2, otherwise if you like progression move to 4, but I don't play rotations in all of my neighborhoods, and go through all of the hassle of modding and cheating to progress my neighborhood just to stick with The Sims 2, and I'm far from moving into 4.
The thing is, when I'm playing The Sims 2, it never goes through my mind that the sims are programmed to do everything they're doing, I forget it, I get immersed, to me they seem almost alive, while when I'm playing TS4 I find myself trying to force my brain to forget that they're just programmed all the time.

Sketching
31st Mar 2018, 6:12 PM
I mentioned (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=5359642#post5359642) what I thought about TS3 in comparison to TS2, and I find it somewhat disheartening that TS4 has many of the same pitfalls TS3 has and in some aspects, even worse versions of the same problems. This is about TS2 and TS4, however, so I'll leave TS3 out, and it's not like the previous iterations' flaws excuse TS4 of anything, especially because it's a more recent game with a history it could've learned from. My brother has TS4, which he only uses to make sims anyway, and I tried it out myself when the base game first came out. I haven't played in a while, however, so maybe some of the things I'll describe here have already been fixed either by the developers or by mods (though now that I've revisited the official Feedback section, it seems more the latter or not at all). Some I know have been fixed but still leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Features I like from TS4:
1. CAS (still would like sliders too though and CASt would've been nice)
2. the ability to move entire rooms, drag walls around
3. some of the clothes
4. some of the Build and Buy items
5. Toddlers, some aspects of Parenthood for family play
6. Separated skills (painting is separate from violin, for example)

Concerns about TS4:

1. The AI swings between lackluster and overboard.
There's a thread (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/817854/an-obnoxious-psychosausage-tests-the-boundaries-of-the-sims-4-emotions) over at the official forums that showcases almost all of my problems with the TS4 AI. In fact, many of its highlights are still applicable to the current gameplay after 3 years.

Early on, I've had sims cheat on their spouses right in front of them, only for the latter to show no reaction whatsoever. They somewhat mitigated this, but the lack of a memory and training system still makes what are supposed to be life-changing events almost inconsequential. You can move the cheated spouse into a well-decorated room to shift their mood to happy, wait for a while, and they'll pretty much forget the whole incident. On the other hand, there's the excessive push-ups, hugging, and musical chairs.

Besides the sheer domination of the Happy mood, the Flirty emotion is downright too powerful. If sims could flirt with tables, they definitely would - that's how strong it is. Once it hits, I have to go out of my way to keep the sims away from each other because they don't have a filter at all. I had a mod to stop the autonomous romantic greet because my sim started flooding the entire town with her thrown petals. She doesn't even have the Romantic trait or aspiration.

I can't even go to gatherings and/or nightclubs out of fear that an emotional orgy will happen AGAIN. I don't want to relive that, but it's also just as frustrating when the UI rapidly changes due to the conflicting emotions fighting for dominance on your home lot. I'm not sure why, but it also feels as if sims can't tell the difference between a family member and anyone else and are just vaguely aware that there's a younger sim living in the same household. It seems to be the lack of relationship checks though, as I mentioned.

2. Traits don't matter.
I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm not a fan of traits. It turns sims into wacky oversimplifications and less like simulations of people, whose traits are more like sliders than anything. I can understand perhaps Vegetarian and the like, though not Sloppy and Neat, which are better represented by a scale. If they must have traits, I'd rather not dispense with sliders for personality points. The Wants and Fears, Memory, and Chemistry systems are my favorite aspects of TS2, and I wish that they never dispensed with them.

The traits don't have a significant impact on the sims, so I've found that the sim you spent so much time tinkering with in CAS is just like everyone else in the game regardless of their given traits. It came to a point where I modded some of my sims to perpetually be in a state of a single emotion to simulate at least a smidgen of personality - the always focused scientist, the constantly playful musician, and whatnot. Needless to say, it didn't help much. I don't see any such distinction in TS4 because they're ruled by their emotions and even then, emotions don't always strongly drive them to meaningful behaviors. I might see a hotheaded sim do his silly stomping outside, but he's as equally likely to hug or pummel anyone.

3. The specific checklists for tasks
There are several aspirations, yet I'm locked into following specific steps to fulfill them. To achieve Big Happy Family, I should read to a child for 2 hours, socialize with my child 10 times, spend 1000 on kids' items, and a whole bunch of other tasks. I might have a bit of leeway in how these objectives are fulfilled, but those sure are specific and odd instructions.

Then again, you don't need to fulfill their whims and aspirations. Goodness knows I never gave in to the pool light obsession or fulfilled a whim to flirt with someone just because I'm near a friendly relationship, which is apparently the perfect reason to engage in amorous actions. Never mind that your lover is at the front yard. That makes things worse depending on your playstyle, however - if you're the type to take wants and fears into account, you might find it difficult to interpret the whims. Nothing game-changing happens if you don't fulfill their aspirations and whims either, so I don't understand the point of it all, unlike TS2's permaplats.

Some of the instructions don't even make sense - so I'm supposed to harass tourists to progress as a Scientist? And then I need to shower afterwards, then lather, rinse, and repeat, for the other playable careers, parties, and whatnot. Right then...

4. World restrictions
Whereas TS2 is versatile in the types of worlds and lots you can make, TS4 has distinct graphics and animations that make it difficult to portray other types of neighborhoods and stories. The sims have unnatural facial expressions that are generally happy despite the fact that the UI claims that they're sad, and the locked-in worlds don't help at all. It's come to the point that you can easily tell which town they're in if they're outside or by the window.

Graphics-wise, it's sometimes difficult to tell what an object is made of. Is it wood? Is it plastic? If you want to make a themed hood or house, this might inconvenience you. (I also miss moving hair...) It's too bad that the objects also have set presets, unlike the previous games where you can recolor the frame separately from the beddings. You'll find that many of the TS2 players here have a wide variety of neighborhoods and styles. Unless they play premade hoods/lots, the scenery is different every time, adding a personal touch to the pictures they post about their peaceful towns, post-apocalyptic dystopias, bustling cities, and whatnot. You're a bit limited in TS4 due to the art style and set neighborhoods.

Community lots are defined by checklists - like 2 chess boards to qualify as a park. Such a decision makes me feel as if sims are specifically coded to enagage only in specific actions as they enter the lot. I prefer that my sims make actions in accordance to their histories, personalities, and backgrounds more than the objects on the lot, so it ties into the AI limitations as well. If I wanted a hot tub and one bookshelf in my TS2 library, then so be it - it won't stop me.

Apartments are basically just houses on top of buildings, and they aren't particularly customizable, not to mention that you have to go through loading screens to visit neighbors. In TS2, you can knock on the door and if the resident doesn't mind, their apartment becomes visible and playable to you without a loading screen. I can't move lots to be closer to or farther away from each other, nor can I redecorate outside of the set lots. My gardener suddenly lost her job because I chose to change her hairstyle, and NPCs don't spawn on food stalls, so I can't simulate markets in the way that I'd like... It makes me feel caged and playing someone else's game.

5. Prioritization and depth of features
TS4 has a few "features" that don't make sense to me, and I'm never sure if it's a bug or an intended feature anymore. Their touted "emotions" are already one heavy point against them. They constantly create townies only to just as frequently delete them later on. The game randomized my sims' clothes when they go out to nightclubs when I'd already designated wardrobes for my sims that could've been used instead. Is that not less work than generating new outfits?

What made them decide to waste programming time and energy so that our sims will have randomly-generated, sexually-incompatible relationships that make no sense whatsoever? Rotational play is difficult because my playables suddenly forget their own parents when they've been living together the whole time, and I have to regularly re-introduce myself to my coworkers - and that's if they don't keep switching them for the townies. I had to resort to MC-CC to stop some of this nonsense.

Ghosts are just recolored sims with a few extra animations, lacking much to be distinct, fleshed-out life states. I'd rather be shown how a conversation is going instead of seeing a bar telling me it's apparent awkward while they're happily giggling together with a flirty mood.

There are emotional defecations and urinations and talking toilets that provide no gameplay substance whatsoever but elevators are without animations and you have to do almost everything in the Medicine career yourself because nobody else will. By default and not as an additional, optional feature, they created hamsters to go on adventures, yet they didn't improve on the existing frogs and fish already in-game.

Just about every new addition to the game contains more and more ways to manipulate the sims' already aggravating emotions. The retail system from Get to Work is still broken and has even been reused for the veterinarian career. Builders don't have much in the way of tools - we don't even have multi-level foundations. Storytellers and several others are limited by the worlds, game mechanics, and poor AI.

Wow, that was long, but I figured you might want some details. Maybe I should put this under a spoiler.... Of course, it's up to you to decide whether you want to buy TS4 or not. I'd second the other members' suggestions to look up LGR (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLx053rWZxCiYWsBETgdKrQ) and read through the official forums' feedback section to see the game's status. I also agree with SneakyWingPhoenix that EPs and SPs probably won't add much to the depth of gameplay because the foundation of the game itself is quite lacking - the holes of the base will be there regardless of whatever additions you put on it.

Again, don't get me wrong - there's no such thing as a perfect game and all of the games in the franchise have their faults. There are mods to fix mistakes in both games that should've been corrected by EA. I'm more disappointed than anything about the state of the game, but I have TS2 and other games that deserve my money and attention. TS2's age only serves to highlight its merits.

Birgitte Heuschkel
31st Mar 2018, 6:29 PM
From what I am reading here, I am honestly seeing the same impression that I have myself: Sims 4 is prettier, but the AI just isn't up to par. Sims 2 is outdated technically, but the focus is on the social interactions and the storytelling.

Don't get me wrong: I loved Sims 3. But I'm definitely seeing a pattern in how the focus shifted in that game to Look! Shiny! instead of sustained playability. A pattern that seems to be continuing into 4. I may fire up the vanilla Sims 4 game just once more to prove to myself that it just isn't what I want, but I honestly think I've found my home with 2.

The fact that this many people play and care and create for a game that's 15 years old, that's probably the best recommendation of them all. You folks are awesome.

JDacapo
31st Mar 2018, 6:34 PM
I hate how currently you can't make your own worlds in Sims 4. They really need to bring back custom worlds and allow you to include or exclude whichever worlds you want. Also... if you already have playables they should allow you to skip CAS. Or has someone found a way to create custom worlds from scratch? 'Cause that would be flippin' awesome!

SneakyWingPhoenix
31st Mar 2018, 7:32 PM
All you need is just take an eye look at the feedback of TS4 in the official forums and you'll understand what a hot mess that game is.

JDacapo
31st Mar 2018, 8:09 PM
Why can't they listen to the feedback? I mean... listening to feedback will help you improve, right? They're turning into this typical animu artist who can't take a flippin' critique.

SneakyWingPhoenix
31st Mar 2018, 8:25 PM
It's not that they can't take critique, they just phase through it. It's a corrupted company, that doesn't give a flip about the quality of their product. However, some members of the guru team (thank god SGDrake left), thought a few did and took the critisicm personally.

Bulbizarre
31st Mar 2018, 8:56 PM
They care more about the stockholders than the customers.

omglo
31st Mar 2018, 9:14 PM
Why can't they listen to the feedback? I mean... listening to feedback will help you improve, right? They're turning into this typical animu artist who can't take a flippin' critique.I don't think it's that they can't. Or maybe it's not solely that they can't. After the Sim City debacle, they realized they were producing something that was going to be a massive failure, but they were too cheap to start from scratch, so they changed course midway through and built onto a weak engine that was unsuitable for a classic Sims game. Unfortunately, this didn't work very well.

Rosebine
31st Mar 2018, 10:39 PM
To me, The Sims 2 is proudly a child of The Sims Series. The Sims 4 is just a completely different game. I would not call it Sims at all.
I guess, for anyone who never experienced any of the sims game, playing TS4 must be super entertaining.
But for me who started playing when The Sims was a thing...I cannot really say I enjoy it, as I can't see it as an improvement of the game I like. It's just, another game.
I think I got stuck on that feeling of awweness that it was, to jump from TS original to TS2, and just never got off of it. :)

Liza
31st Mar 2018, 10:49 PM
The thing is, when I'm playing The Sims 2, it never goes through my mind that the sims are programmed to do everything they're doing, I forget it, I get immersed, to me they seem almost alive, while when I'm playing TS4 I find myself trying to force my brain to forget that they're just programmed all the time.

I also think that the sims in TS2 are very intelligent, more humane, and can express their emotions more naturally. They are not "frozen" for a second before each action, unlike sims in TS3 and TS4. When I first started TS2 after a break, I expected to see the characters who will have to point out every action, and that their intellect will be primitive. But during the game I saw that they can live independently of the player. For a normal existence, they do not need a player. Stronger than I was impressed by the fact that when in the game came in the morning, the characters woke up and the child went to brush his teeth, without my instructions. After TS3 and TS4, this is very pleasantly surprising. It was this family. Baldwin family (http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Baldwin_family)

I know that sims in TS2 are pieces of code, files lying in the neighborhood folder. But the developers in all possible ways tried to show that this is not so. And they succeeded. Sims in TS3 and TS4 are arranged and behave like characters in a regular game. If they do not have a specific character trait associated with something, then they will not react to it.

Of course, "moodlets" and "character traits" are easier to program. It is much more difficult to come up with a complex personality system, like TS2. And it's hard to create animation and use it as the only tool for expressing all the feelings and emotions of the sim, and do not resort to simplifications like "moodlets" and "emotions" as in TS4.

yavannatw
31st Mar 2018, 10:52 PM
I have played Sims 2 without any lack of enthusiasm for over 10 years. I love my Sims and their generational histories. I played Sims 3 for a while but hated the way they looked, especially toddlers, and was soon bored. I actually thought about getting Sims 4 on console (because I didn't want to tarnish my Sims 2 computer with it) and asked over at the Sims 4 forum what it was like. I got such a lacklustre response that I gave up on the idea completely. I love the amazing, amazing cc and mods you can get for Sims 2 which constantly make the game exciting to play.
I think you've got your answer.

SneakyWingPhoenix
31st Mar 2018, 11:25 PM
I actually love the moodlets of TS3. Wish it was more integrated into TS2 with memories or the other way around with TS3.

joandsarah77
31st Mar 2018, 11:30 PM
You do realize you are asking this on a die-hard Sims 2 board right? Or maybe that was your point. Only people here tend to get annoyed by such threads.

Yes Sims 2 is the best one of the series. There are two main reasons, 1 is the sims themselves. Sims 2 sims have soul. They are engaging, expressive and have fine nuances that all the other sims lack. It's difficult how to explain this fully, you will only see it by playing each game with autonomy on and also by taking your sims out and about. If you play with free will off and mostly send your sim to work and tell them what to do every step of the way you may miss this aspect entirely.

The second main reason is the sandbox play. Sims 2 can be moulded into what you want. You want sims who live in a cave who eat Bronto burgers? Or in a bright purple alien landscape, you can. The restrictions only come about if the CC isn't available but most things can be achieved with little to break immersion. Your cavemen sims won't have mobile/cell phone ringing on them to break your immersion.

Sims 3 and 4 can be entertaining, but it lacks those important aspects. It feels more like I am playing a game, but sims 2 feels more like I am playing a life simulator. I don't know about anybody else but I also find the game controls clunky in 3 and 4. I find it harder on my hand to direct the sims, turn the camera and simply play the game. To me sims 4 feels like it's aimed at children.

Primavera
31st Mar 2018, 11:35 PM
To me TS2 holds a special place in my heart because I've played it for years starting with the console game and 'Sims Life Stories'. When I got the 'Sims 2 Double Deluxe' as a gift for getting good grades in school I was enthralled with how I could do whatever I wanted to, with more opportunities laid out to me :).

When I got the chance to play TS3 (after begging my mom to shell out $60) I was a little disappointed by how the game turned out. Don't get me wrong, I loved it at first, but it dissolved after a while because it was /too much/ stuff for me to handle, and it did overwhelm me. And because our family computer was old it couldn't handle the open world and the customization tools, so then I went back to 2.

I got the chance to play TS4 for free with the 48-hour trial and I was more disappointed than I was with 3; I couldn't get past the low poly count and the general lack of everything 2 and 3 presented, so I again went back to 2. I keep close tabs on TS4 and all the news I hear about the game turns me off more than before :(.

I hope I don't inadvertently offend anyone with this. TS3 and TS4 have their pros and cons, but I'm still gonna play TS2 until I'm 90 years old. With all the problems with TS3 and polarized feedback circulating TS4 I'm content with playing this game, vanilla and modded :).

SneakyWingPhoenix
31st Mar 2018, 11:45 PM
. It feels more like I am playing a game, but sims 2 feels more like I am playing a life simulator.
That sentence reminds me, but can't remember clearly of a clever quote W.Wright had said (I believe) about The Sims as a whole. I only remember clearly that he "finds [it] not as a game", and other part something along the lines ", but as a tool". Probably is not the closest I can pick up from my memory, so I probably will update this comment once I remember what he clearly had said.

Bulbizarre
31st Mar 2018, 11:55 PM
My best friend likes to torment me by saying the Sims 2 isn't a real game. But it's okay, because I put his Sim into a maid dress.

maxon
1st Apr 2018, 12:23 AM
That sentence reminds me, but can't remember clearly of a clever quote W.Wright had said (I believe) about The Sims as a whole. I only remember clearly that he "finds [it] not as a game", and other part something along the lines ", but as a tool". Probably is not the closest I can pick up from my memory, so I probably will update this comment once I remember what he clearly had said.
He made the distinction between games and toys - the quote is the sims is a toy not a game. Toys are something you play with and create stuff in your head, games have rules and an eventual pre-determined goal. It's the same difference when you were a kid between playing with lego and playing a game like Cleudo or Monopoly.

SneakyWingPhoenix
1st Apr 2018, 12:33 AM
He made the distinction between games and toys - the quote is the sims is a toy not a game. Toys are something you play with and create stuff in your head, games have rules and an eventual pre-determined goal. It's the same difference when you were a kid between playing with lego and playing a game like Cleudo or Monopoly.
Could be that he used that analogy, which I do agree that The Sims Series in general are as toys: you play with it however you want it. Just that from TS2, as time goes pass each new version lacks an attribute or two that limits the possibilities. Kind of like each new lego set/sequal misses a piece that makes it hardly possible to build specific things, like green blocks for 'terraforming' so to speak.

Bulbizarre
1st Apr 2018, 12:37 AM
Some of Maxis' earlier software (SimTown, Widget Workshop, etc) had a "Software Toys For Kids" logo: http://www.mobygames.com/game/simtown/cover-art/gameCoverId,211218/

AndrewGloria
1st Apr 2018, 2:04 AM
My best friend likes to torment me by saying the Sims 2 isn't a real game. But it's okay, because I put his Sim into a maid dress.My best friend is a TS2 Sim! :lovestruc:

Orphalesion
1st Apr 2018, 2:12 AM
Yep that's it. Sims 1 and 2 were toys, not "games". Starting with Sims 3 they started to include more and more traditional game elements (quests, unlocking pre-defined goals).

simmer22
1st Apr 2018, 3:31 AM
I almost forgot... BABIES! Yeah, babies are so much cuter and awesome in TS2. Just so that's said.

While vanilla TS2 babies may not be as interesting as older sims, I've found several ways to make them more interesting via CC. And they've got the cutest little smiles and animations if you just get them going, particularly with the addition of the baby toys.

TS3 babies - couldn't care less. They're boring, just lay there, barely even move at all unless they cry. Even in the baby toys they eventually got they didn't do much else than before (I don't think they did). TS4 babies are sort of cute, but look like aliens compared to the older sims. The whole stuck to the crib and their clothes being part of their skin also bothers me to no end. It's like a slightly upgraded 3D version of the TS1 babies.

Bulbizarre
1st Apr 2018, 3:40 AM
TS3 babies - couldn't care less. They're boring, just lay there, barely even move at all unless they cry..

Unless you have bad CC, in which case they turn into Lovecraftian monsters.

alljoj
1st Apr 2018, 5:27 AM
Unless you have bad CC, in which case they turn into Lovecraftian monsters.

It's even better in TS4! Isn't he just adorable?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jSAC2osj8TA/maxresdefault.jpg

Bulbizarre
1st Apr 2018, 5:34 AM
He has a face that only a mother could love, if she happened to be blind.

Justpetro
1st Apr 2018, 8:27 AM
I have a Sims 2 hood with over 200 families in it. I have added subhoods to that, which means that I also have a retirement hood and a farming hood besides Bluewater Village attached to the main hood. I am at the 4th generation, where the great grandchildren of the original bin Sims are off to school. Tell me how you can do that in Sims 3 and Sims 4 (I have both. I can't remember when I last played 3. I started 4 the last time when the toddlers came out) - but tell me that, and I may be interested in a discussion.

Plus - everything that Jo says.

Birgitte Heuschkel
1st Apr 2018, 9:12 AM
I have a Sims 2 hood with over 200 families in it. I have added subhoods to that, which means that I also have a retirement hood and a farming hood besides Bluewater Village attached to the main hood. I am at the 4th generation, where the great grandchildren of the original bin Sims are off to school. Tell me how you can do that in Sims 3 and Sims 4 (I have both. I can't remember when I last played 3. I started 4 the last time when the toddlers came out) - but tell me that, and I may be interested in a discussion.

I have actually forced myself to do that in Sims 3, but I'll readily admit that a lot of fast forwarding, macroing and just plain being bored was involved. I wanted to see where the world would go and how it would develop, but honestly, it did get very boring after a while.

joandsarah77
1st Apr 2018, 9:39 AM
Plus - everything that Jo says.

I can get behind that. :D :lol:

Justpetro
1st Apr 2018, 10:53 AM
My hood is NOT boring at all :) I have been playing it for around 4 years now, and I will have to go into mourning for a year if something happens to it.

FranH
1st Apr 2018, 11:35 AM
As for me, 2 is the toy that I wanted to have when I was 8 years old.

That Christmas I got a game named "Thimble City" which had a playboard, small statues of cars and people with magnets on them, plastic houses and buildings. Using a magnet attached to a stick of wood to move the pieces I used to crash the cars into the buildings and make them run over people.

It was hysterically fun for me.

This game is that kind of fun, but on a computer. (nobody ever gets run over by a player owned car..though). And more unscripted at times.

(I was a very lonely child).

simmer22
1st Apr 2018, 12:56 PM
The only functional things I really wish I had in my TS2 game from TS3 is the background environment (aka open neighborhood esthetics), strollers, bikes and horses. Occasionally I also miss the color wheel. Other than that I'm more or less happy with TS2 as it is.

From TS4 there's little to nothing I miss that can't already be modded into TS2 or works better there. It would be nice if TS2 neighborhoods could have looked a little more like the on-lot TS4 view (as in, neighboring lots don't look like cardboard drawings - but not the awful neighborhood lot picking view), and I do like some of how the toddlers were handled (not that it took them an age and a half for EA to add them, though), possibly a few other small things - but I don't miss the things much.

Quite honestly, I'm more likely to be annoyed when playing TS3 or TS4 because I miss things from TS2 - particularly the animations. While there are a few stupid animations in TS2, there are so many more in 3 and 4. Silly walks, pocket-vehicles with barely one pose/animations, and everything feels so overdone.

The idles are also very annoying in 3+4. They can be a little bothersome in TS2 when you want the sim to do anything but idles, but they don't look as arteficial. I've got a TS2 sim who'll sometimes read while walking around the house, and her husband loves playing with the rubics cube logic toy. I see it as part of their personality. I've got sims who'll show they're bored (looking at their fingernails, etc.) when standing around waiting for a command (I mostly play with free will off), and I love how even toddlers and babies will look around and follow the person with their eyes when a sim walk past. It makes them feel more alive and aware. I'm not too fond of speech/thought bubbles, but I really like how even babies will occasionally think of a family member. Even dogs seem to notice babies. It's like all the sims are connected in a way, and are part of the same environment. I don't get the same feeling with 3 and 4. Sure, the sims will interact, but not in the same way. It's almost like they won't quite notice other sims unless they interact, and if they do they'll just stare creepily at them.

OnayaW
1st Apr 2018, 1:45 PM
I grew up with sims 2 in my life. The last 1 1/2 year I've only just got to know to mods and so on, ways to improve the games graphics and that!
After all those mods and graphic changes Sims 2 is a very amazing game to play!

cheezypuff121P
2nd Apr 2018, 2:47 AM
For me, there is no comparison between the two games. Even after the addition of toddlers, I have not felt compelled to play TS4 as I do not derive enjoyment from it. TS4's gameplay seems too focused on memes and over-the-top goofiness than providing any actual depth. What I love about TS2 is that when combined with the modding community and the original programming of the game, you can make your game as serious or as goofy as you want it to be. With TS4, I feel as if I am pigeon-holed into playing a certain playstyle. Perhaps that will change over time, but in either case I have no interest in trying to make the game work for me when TS2 gives me everything that I want. :)

TS3 was fun for me as well and I derived many years of enjoyment from it, but the ultimate dealbreaker was the glitchiness of the game itself paired with the pudding texture of the sims that I just couldn't seem to effectively mod out, plus the genetics were a hot mess (even with my TS3 sims' lord and savior Twallan, the genetics left much to be desired). TS2's graphics may be "outdated" but I still think it's a beautiful game, especially when modded to oblivion :rofl: I'm none too fond of TS4's graphics either...even on the highest settings the textures look blurry and cartoon-ish (to me).

As with others here have indicated, I am extremely biased so please take my opinions with a grain of salt. If you truly wish to see if TS4 is the game for you, find some TS4 simmers on youtube and watch their playstyles and see if they mirror what you want to achieve with the game. TS4 is a good game for many I'm sure, but the only thing I could 10000% assure you is that it is not TS2. Now, whether that means TS4 is better or worse than TS2 is purely a matter of what you're looking for in your Sims games. :)

Squidconqueror
2nd Apr 2018, 6:44 AM
You do realize you are asking this on a die-hard Sims 2 board right? Or maybe that was your point. Only people here tend to get annoyed by such threads.

Yes Sims 2 is the best one of the series. There are two main reasons, 1 is the sims themselves. Sims 2 sims have soul. They are engaging, expressive and have fine nuances that all the other sims lack. It's difficult how to explain this fully, you will only see it by playing each game with autonomy on and also by taking your sims out and about. If you play with free will off and mostly send your sim to work and tell them what to do every step of the way you may miss this aspect entirely.

The second main reason is the sandbox play. Sims 2 can be moulded into what you want. You want sims who live in a cave who eat Bronto burgers? Or in a bright purple alien landscape, you can. The restrictions only come about if the CC isn't available but most things can be achieved with little to break immersion. Your cavemen sims won't have mobile/cell phone ringing on them to break your immersion.

Sims 3 and 4 can be entertaining, but it lacks those important aspects. It feels more like I am playing a game, but sims 2 feels more like I am playing a life simulator. I don't know about anybody else but I also find the game controls clunky in 3 and 4. I find it harder on my hand to direct the sims, turn the camera and simply play the game. To me sims 4 feels like it's aimed at children.
I never really liked how the sims looked in 3. They look as if they were made out of Play-doh,the graphics are too oversaturated and from time to time it likes to slow down and freeze up. If EA and Maxis would stop getting greedy and lazy and just make a proper sequel that wouldn't upset so many loyal fans and combined the best parts of Sims 2 and 3 while making a functional open world that doesn't freeze and lag up then Sims 4 wouldn't get that much hate. I mean they could have just made it so that you could visit your next door without encountering another loading screen and it's almost been 4 years and Sims 4 still doesn't have burglars and firefighters. I know that you could become a police officer on the GTW expansion pack and yet there still aren't any burglars. I mean how lazy could you possibly as a video game company to leave out the most basic things that should be in a life simulator and if stuff like this continues to happen then i'm afraid what Sims 5 would be like if they are making one. I'll just stick with Sims 2 and 3 until they decide to make a better Sims game or when they decide to start making worthwhile content for Sims 4. But if I have to choose then it would have to be Sims 2 because it has some of the best radio soundtracks in the whole series and the sims actually act like real human beings. I bet if I really think about it then I might be able to list a hundred things that I think Sims 2 does better than 4 but I just don't the time and patience for any of that so I'll just leave it there.

gwynne
2nd Apr 2018, 1:39 PM
Just tagging on to repeat the common theme: Sims 4 looks nice enough, the simulation engine under the hood is a garbage fire.

Although I think they fixed the 'autonomous incest' issue pretty fast.

DezzyDoesThings
4th Apr 2018, 1:36 AM
hurp durp welllll I don't have 4 and prolly never will! *slurps out of my capri sun*

yavannatw
4th Apr 2018, 2:17 AM
This says it all for me really.

http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/8/7/2/5/4/2/4/MTS_yavannatw-1760516-Capture.JPG

Seriously, what colour do you call that skin? Sims in Sims 4 look all blurry and pale - just weird.

Charity
4th Apr 2018, 2:24 AM
It looks like an alien baby. But what's with the dead eyes? DX

joandsarah77
4th Apr 2018, 2:33 AM
Cuter

http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/87858_180404013252snapshot_240c4e5a_04ddca22.jpg

Rosebine
4th Apr 2018, 3:04 AM
If at least, the pj was not painted on, then maybe.

HarVee
4th Apr 2018, 3:19 AM
Convince me to stick with Sims 2 and not waste my money on a game that I will get disappointed with, even if it has super sweet graphics compared to Sims 2's rather 2004 look. :lovestruc
Sounds like you already have your mind made up and are looking for validation? Honestly, I'm a total 2-thie rufie. I think it is the best of the fully three dimensional Sim titles.

Has the most well thought out features of the titles. With The Sims 2 maxis made it so features of later expansions actually expanded and complimented features from previous expansion packs. No 2.0 mini packs, but rather made them all feel like this giant mega pack in the end when you've installed them all and the game, in terms of features themselves, ultimately felt complete when official development stopped.

Has the most entertaining and convincing Sims. The Sims don't spend 22 hours of their day chatting about random nonsense not even related to their day or current life events. The Sims, despite the technical limitations, still manage to feeling different enough, both visually and in personality, as to not feel like complete replicas of each other as they have in later titles.

The game is paired with an art style that perfectly balances the realistic and cartoon aesthetics together. While it does side more on the cartoon side, it does so in a way that doesn't prevent more realistic textures and higher detailed meshes from looking out-of-place. In a nutshell - no Crayola waxville.

And less we not forget the soundtrack? No boring orchestra shit here. Just awesome Electro with an experimental style. Perfect for this Goth IMO.

The sum of The Sims 2 is that it feels like a complete simulation, one which actually attempts to do what the box says. Simulate... lives.

joandsarah77
4th Apr 2018, 3:35 AM
If at least, the pj was not painted on, then maybe.

Baby clothes are often painted on.

SakuraKiss
4th Apr 2018, 4:00 AM
Why is this even a question... the Sims 2 is better. Sorry

HarVee
4th Apr 2018, 4:02 AM
Why is this even a question... the Sims 2 is better. Sorry
Because... discussion forum?

Rosebine
4th Apr 2018, 4:03 AM
Baby clothes are often painted on.
Nothing I am not already aware of, does that changes my taste? No.

SakuraKiss
4th Apr 2018, 4:04 AM
Because... discussion forum?

I was joking and we're in the Sims 2 forum... pretty sure people are gonna say TS2

HarVee
4th Apr 2018, 4:06 AM
Many people may. But there is always going to be that one person. Y'know?

Justpetro
4th Apr 2018, 9:21 AM
The plants. They may not be perfect, but at least they don't like the plastic flowers in a cheap gift shop like in sims 4.

Sketching
4th Apr 2018, 12:20 PM
Just tagging on to repeat the common theme: Sims 4 looks nice enough, the simulation engine under the hood is a garbage fire. Although I think they fixed the 'autonomous incest' issue pretty fast.

I had to delete sims because there was a time when you couldn't cheat the incestuous relationship away (specifically it can be reduced to 0 but the romance bar was permanent), and it was usually caused when I had a parent snuggle a child on a couch. So much for a heartwarming moment - the kid started bawling whenever he saw his parents together. I sent him to water the plants with his tears before deleting and recreating him. It's not like the parents noticed anyway - no proper memory system here, and there wasn't a properly family tree back then either.

My main concern with TS4 is that it values style over substance, lacking depth in several aspects of the game, the sims themselves most of all. The scenery may look nice, but most are just uneditable backdrops with no foreseeable chance of creating worlds similar to TS2 and TS3. Sims are more coded to react to the objects on the lot, community type, and their emotions than actual traits and histories. TS2 might have "closed worlds" yet they're far more open and accessible to the player, who can place 1000 flying pigs if they and their machines can handle it. Emotions have over-the-top animations (http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/87869_180404103615It's the Asylum All Over Again.png) yet don't add much value to gameplay. Some romantic interactions appear tepid - I'm not asking for outright steamy animations but making out doesn't look like they're enthused about it.

There are large rockets and microscopes when smaller variations could've at least been an option - it almost feels like everything's too big in this game, which is a contrast to how claustrophobic it make you feel as well. As nice as it is to have career branches and multiple dishes, there are secret agents and astronauts yet no teachers and the restaurant system is not as comprehensive as it could have been. News of recycled items and clothes are circulating; nevertheless, they went ahead with another Kafkaesque animal costume.

The decision to focus on superficial systems and additions over providing meaningful gameplay baffles me, and at the same time, it doesn't, which makes me feel like their own emotionally-confused sims. Again, it's been a while since I've played, so maybe some of these have been fixed or modded out but the fact that they came out this way still lingers.

I find multi-tasking to be more of a nuisance than something ground-breaking and we had variations of it in previous games anyway, so it's nothing new. Instead of allowing sims to do two tasks at the same time with the same speed, they alternate between these tasks and the result is that it takes much longer than it would've if they had done them separately. While cooking, your sims will start talking to someone else or stare at a wall hanging, and cancelling the action gives mixed results, typically making me wait for real-life minutes (nope, shouldn't fast forward because time is broken in-game as well). It's realistic in some respects, but with all of the ethereal implementations this game has, this wasn't the realism I had in mind!

In TS2, there might be instances when your sims will prepare or eat food in odd places, but TS4 checks for relationships or possible social encounters so you'll almost always find sims congregating in one area (http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/87865_180404094150There's a Table Over There, Guys.png) to eat just because of this silly "check". In restaurants, you can talk to a sim and they'll forget about their meals, leaving you free to steal them with no reaction from the patrons whatsoever. In the same vein, strangers can interrupt your conversations on dates, making it awkward for them (according to the conversation bar because I can't tell anymore with their forced happy expressions) and frustrating for me. I'm not sure if this was ever fixed, but even with anti-annoyance mods, I eventually began making them eat separately and sparsely decorating houses to prevent them from wasting any more time.

Areas like Sylvan Glade and Sixam look impressive in some respects, although the graphics do bring it down quite a bit when their rocks look more like clay constructions. Disregarding graphics, they feel rather one-note and with my gameplay, the only purpose they serve is to provide locations for collecting ingredients/materials. You'll barely have a reason to return unless you want to party with the aliens and/or marvel at the scenery. Well, I suppose you'll have to go back for the Treefish because we can't breed fish for whatever reason. Perhaps you'll find it more interesting if you're the type who likes collectibles.

I guess you can play it off as something special to the lot but I've become averse to TS4 loading screens because they've come to mean more randomly-generated and deleted sims and/or relationships. To think that we have to finagle with the played/unplayed tick boxes in the household manager along with MC-CC to stop the game from turning sims into serial job hoppers and town bicycles. In TS2, my game stays as I left it unless the sims appear in other households or community lots. If any relationships were made, I'll at least have had the chance to see it myself.

You can't edit those lots without cheats, and even if you cheat your way to live there, you can't have more than one household. I was also irritated that either the aliens were roaming around Sixam in an illogical manner or that the alien party was doomed to either cause massive embarassment, confidence, or anger due to the discovery of aliens regardless of whether the sim has already met or seen aliens before, even when they're not in disguise.

I wasn't surprised that trying to edit Sixam or Sylvan Glade only gave me a measly space to modify. You'll also have to leave it up to your imagination whether these worlds are actually inhabited by hidden residents or just hidden away areas, because Sylvan Glade doesn't have any fae flying around nor can you see aliens going about their lives in Sixam. Granted, TS2 townies don't have residences unless you use them for apartments, but it would've been nice to go forward with the games.

TS2 had EPs with sizable premade hoods along with solid, in-depth gameplay features. With Get to Work, I get lackluster careers, a shoddy retail system, a Magnolia Promenade that pales in comparison to Bluewater Village, and aliens, who once took over towns and are now almost totally nerfed. I've heard that toggles were impossible with this game engine, but I guess only select few know if it's the truth. I've heard of lounge chair and bunk bed animations being too complex for this game as well, so my expectations are non-existent.

Speaking of GTW, the playable careers don't add much in terms of world-changing gameplay either, other than the fact that Science initially went overboard with the alien invasion to the point that I had a sim who was abducted almost everyday. It's as if the developers don't know how to balance features out - it's often either too much or nothing at all when it comes to their features, like Perry the Platypus wannabe hamsters but frogs, fishes, and insects that are more decorative than anything else.

Sure, we can create inventions and cure illnesses, but these don't alter the world in any significant manner. Freezing passersby isn't going to trigger a law enforcement officer to arrest you, nor can you call a doctor in case your household comes down with sickness. Using the satellite in plain sight to deplete everyone's bladder at work won't get you fired (then again, one of the instructions to advance in the career is to harass tourists). Somehow the game will create all of these random relationships and/or career changes yet refuse to fathom that perhaps the households you investigated as a cop might have cleaned up the "traumatic" mess in their homes afterwards! I don't know how to explain law enforcement in a world without burglars and firefighters and officers who don't react when there's an actual brawl on a community lot.

I once did an experiment and edited the Science career lot and covered it in flirty paintings and emotion emitters. Lo and behold, sims started flirting with just about everyone regardless of actual yet almost non-existent traits, apparent gender preferences, and relationships, sometimes even in front of their own spouses (hey, why are they able to go to a playable career together?). The silly animations were odd as they appeared to flirt with the flora (http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/87868_180404102858Flirting with Plants.png) and fauna in the laboratory. Well, gardening in the laboratory was also a horrible idea because the inventory system's a mess and more items in the inventory causes longer loading screens. It's far worse when they talk to their children in the same "seductive" manner when said child or teen is on fire.

I find it trying to play with families - I mentioned that the sims don't seem to have any particular relationships checks. When I had a group of friends live in one apartment-ish building (because I can't have apartments outside San Myshuno for some reason), it took a tremendous amount of effort to prevent them from flirting with their friends, and even then they get whims to suddenly flirt with their best friend's spouse for no other reason than their proximity to said person.

Naturally, it didn't work because I can't control 8 sims at the same time unless I turn free will off and I'd rather not have to micromanage them into basic needs fulfillment. Two female best friends ended up flirting with each other's spouse, and the two men were close friends with each other and the women as well. You'd think that it'd double the rejection here, but no such thing happened, yet it doesn't matter because the decor will fix everything and no will remember the incident in days, if not hours.

Family members don't even seem to recognize each other as family all that much; they don't get too many whims about them, and what they do have tends not to be too related to their traits. My bookworm never rolled a whim to read to their child, nor did a sim who loved outdoors want to go camping with their kids (not that I'd let them because there's not much to do in Granite Falls and the stalker bear annoys me).

The babies look... odd, as simmer22 said, and I was beyond surprised to find them as buyable objects when I tried to edit Sixam. If I remember correctly, early on non-alien babies had about 3 skintones regardless of the parent's actual skintone, so they aren't good indicators of genetics, not to mention look like surreal dolls compared to the actual sims. I have a picture (http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/87866_180404095955Granddaughter.png) of a woman with her granddaughter, and here (http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/87867_180404100749Uncle Wolfgang.png)'s said granddaughter as a child. It's not even the same skin color... I think it was because of the limited baby skintones, but it's been a while, so I don't remember. Nope, I didn't have custom skins.

There were other relationship check issues, like random sims calling you for a night out on one of those themed bar nights, which tended to result in more townie generation and culling, or children bringing you to nightclubs.

In the case of childcare, I found it strange that all you had to do is leave the lot and you'd get a notice that the kids are automatically sent to a daycare of sorts. There's a teen babysitter career yet no option to hire them, much less have a playable one arrive on the scene. I suppose you can bring the kid over to someone else's house and leave them there to simulate a semblance of babysitting, but it won't work for babies. Children can be left alone with them, yet they can't care for the bassinet-tied objects. It might be because children are more independent in this iteration but that's quite an oversight.

Even the premades didn't seem properly thought out. With Get Together's Windenburg (which I do find beautiful, especially the island), you have the Renegades versus the Paragons, but none of them start off with poor relationships with one another; you even have two members from each group who are siblings with positive relationships! How am I supposed to believe that Renegade leader Max is truly evil when he'll readily hug his older sister from the Paragons? Maybe we could play it off as a soft spot for her, but there's also Morgan and Siobhan Fyres' neutral relationship despite supposedly being at odds with each other. There isn't even a tense moodlet that'll result between them if you have them interact at the very least. It doesn't hold a candle to the Pleasant twins and the Grunt brothers.

Then again, almost everyone starts out as acquaintances with little variation in relationship scores and there are no individual biographies to compensate for the absence of consistent and effective traits, interests, and memory, wants/fears, hobby, and chemistry systems. There are clubs where members don't even know each other - poor Lucas Munch was apparently signed up for a club he probably isn't completely aware of.

Aspirations and whims aren't fleshed out. They might have strangely specific instructions to achieve them, but once again, nothing game-changing happens when you do or don't fulfill them. Read to a child for two hours? I can pick just about any children's book and read to them, even though the summary doesn't seem to work well with the child's traits, so there's no depth there. A sim who manages to accomplish their aspiration to become a writer isn't too different from one who hasn't.

Trying to talk to someone with contrasting interests is difficult in TS2 because they'll often stop the conversation and walk away when they don't like the topic. When it comes to TS4 conversations, a geek can enthuse about video games to someone who isn't a geek, doesn't have video gaming skill, or at least the tech guru career with no consequence unless they already have a negative relationship, which is difficult to come by in this game unless randomized by the system itself. What's more (or less, really) is that the conversations aren't as detailed as those in TS2 - no special animations, thought bubbles, or reminiscing about memories and events. I wanted sims to actually be more like simulations of people than the indistinct caricatures we got instead.

Content doesn't necessarily mean objects - it's also the mechanics you've put into place. It's not just the glaring lack of customizability and restrictions upon restrictions in nearly everything in this game that brings it down - it's "little" things like these that break the immersion to the sims and their worlds. They patched toddlers and babysitters in (but they're not the previously advertised teens - why?) yet such a feature should've been in the base game to begin with, like so many others. Combined with the bugs and questionable features that seem like bugs in themselves, it sadly doesn't leave much to TS4's experience. Instead of learning from the pitfalls of the previous games, they've only launched themselves deeper into the abyss. It's almost a weirder story in itself that the fourth iteration in a series that brought TS2 would be this disappointing.

simmer22
4th Apr 2018, 12:38 PM
Baby clothes are often painted on.

All the clothes are painted on sims' skins (exceptions being extra parts not linked to the skin - but all clothes have at least one part overlaying the skin). Most clothes just happen to have a different shape mesh.

As for baby clothes in TS2, it's fully possible to make meshes that don't look painted-on, and even meshes with overlaying non-skin parts (examples: 01 (https://s26.postimg.org/ocwmr2ecp/Screen_Cap115_red.png), 02 (http://s26.postimg.org/csinp4qzt/Screen_Cap060_red.png), 03 (http://s26.postimg.org/ei4f7kmy1/Screen_Cap045_red.png), 04 (http://s26.postimg.org/j3lf07dwp/Screen_Cap042_red.png)). I have a small preference for the simple meshes because they're easy to recolor and have more possibilities than a mesh with various parts like sleeves or shirt edges poking out here and there.

Baby clothes in TS2 are not painted on, in the sense that they actually have a separate outfit out of the box (the diaper), and therefore can be dressed (they have a "naked" state for bathing/diaper changes). One outfit that acts as an outfit isn't much, but it gave us modding options with both meshes and textures. Babies in TS2 are also a middle ground between an object and a sim. The game sees them as a variant of objects, but they have proper genetics (eyes, skin and hairtone/eyebrows), and look like their parents in that regard. They even look like baby sims, and blend nicely with the rest of the ages. They're in fact the only baby life stage from the 4 different games that look like a proper mix between their parents. They're also able to have alien genetics while still babies, in the sense that they get an alien face. As a bonus. their aging in CAS related items is linked to the other ages, plus they have a separate scalp, meaning it's also possible to (via a bit of modding) give them accessories, makeup and hairs that are changeable ingame.

Babies in TS3 sometimes get borked genetics, they don't have proper legs, and they sure don't look like their parents (older sims have clay-faces, the babies are ten times worse). They're somewhat moddable, but not quite as much as TS2 babies because they only have one clothing state (they still wear their blanket/outfit when taking a bath and getting diaper changes).

Baby clothes in TS4 are literally painted-on. There's no such thing as a separate outfit for them, so you're stuck with painted-on, and there looks to be no modding opportunities away from this. The outlook regarding accessories and not-painted-on hairs looks bleak, too. They don't really have genetics, just an approximation from what's available until they become toddlers.

gwynne
4th Apr 2018, 2:35 PM
Don't TS3 and TS4 also share the infuriating issue that a Sim who is born blond can dye their hair blue, and then have a blue-haired baby? (Nothing makes me appreciate the DNA system in TS2 more than playing any other iteration of the game.)

SneakyWingPhoenix
4th Apr 2018, 2:49 PM
Though there are things/element we probably do like/wish from other sim series were carried to TS2 (hope we can at least admit that). I for one want story progression.... to some extent, such as being very CUSTOMIZABLE/CONFIGURABLE. In some hoods, I wanna play rotation, in other neighborhood - just focus on one family while others grow old, marry, age, die etc. Of course TS2, hadn't had build into engine so I do believe that's near impossible to implement through sheer modding. Also, moddlet systems integrated into memory panel or better yet - a new one (so those who don't care would and could not look at it). IMO that add flavour as short-term memory things for little moments in your life that made sim feel and think a certain way based on a thing that happened to them. I also adore the description of every one of those when I'm playing TS3. That's just the tip of the iceberg: I wouldn't probably just click randomize, select an aspiration want, turn on&off s, give a sim name and be done If I could spent time with the powerful CAS click and drag and all other additions that TS4, a way to have functional houseboats, actual horses, and etc. Though it doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying TS2, as it is as of yet, which holes true to diehard fans from this child-forum :)

Justpetro
4th Apr 2018, 9:47 PM
I am not a rotational player in the true sense of the word, but I do get to play all my families in my big hood. As far as I am concerned, I will be responsible for any story progression and nobody else, because it is my hood and my story and if my sims 3 sim's girlfriend had not moved away in the middle of the night, I may have felt differently - but she did and that was the end of my already rocky relationship with that game.

Bulbizarre
4th Apr 2018, 10:08 PM
Don't TS3 and TS4 also share the infuriating issue that a Sim who is born blond can dye their hair blue, and then have a blue-haired baby? (Nothing makes me appreciate the DNA system in TS2 more than playing any other iteration of the game.)

I once did an experiment of TS2's genetic systems and family tree involving creating two Sims with horrifying faces stretched far past the normal slider limits, breeding them together, and then using cheats to continually breed their offspring together. Some of the inbred offspring clearly inherited facial traits that neither of their parents (er, siblings and grandparents too) had but that other family members did. Then the stove caught fire and ended the experiment.

joandsarah77
4th Apr 2018, 11:07 PM
The babies look... odd, as simmer22 said, and I was beyond surprised to find them as buyable objects when I tried to edit Sixam. If I remember correctly, early on non-alien babies had about 3 skintones regardless of the parent's actual skintone, so they aren't good indicators of genetics, not to mention look like surreal dolls compared to the actual sims. I have a picture of a woman with her granddaughter, and here's said granddaughter as a child. It's not even the same skin color... I think it was because of the limited baby skintones, but it's been a while, so I don't remember. Nope, I didn't have custom skins.

Let's just say they have jaundice and be done with it. :P

Simonut
4th Apr 2018, 11:58 PM
You have the right to play any Sims version of the game you want to. It's your money being spend, and your happiness as to what make you smile.
But let get "Real" here Sims 1 started the whole game Sims 2 "up" the game to features we never had before, Sims 3 and Sims 4 all they did was Copy from Sims 2 and added a few things like "Open World."

But all in all it seem like the newer version of the Sims like Sims 3 And Sims 4 was taken ideas from The BEST version of the game which is Sims 2.
In Sims 3 they use the world "Late Night" which was just a twist on Sims 2 "Night Life" ( don't know what they call it in Sims 4. )

Sims 2 may be 10 years older or more but with all the mods it added so much more to the game, I even notice some of the Sims 4 modders are now taking ideas from Sims 2 to add to Sims 4.
So if Sims 3 and Sims 4 are going to copy features from Sims 2 that should tell you right off the bat that Sims 2 is still the best version around of the Sims ( Just my opinion ) but do your own thing. :)

maxon
5th Apr 2018, 12:25 AM
I am not a rotational player in the true sense of the word, but I do get to play all my families in my big hood. As far as I am concerned, I will be responsible for any story progression and nobody else, because it is my hood and my story and if my sims 3 sim's girlfriend had not moved away in the middle of the night, I may have felt differently - but she did and that was the end of my already rocky relationship with that game.
That stuff really annoyed the crap out of me. When I tried TS3 at the beginning, I had a teenage daughter in the house and she made friends with a boy at school. I worked at it over a couple of days - flirts, kisses etc. then BOOM, he looked different. Yup, he aged to adult and she could no longer interact romantically with him and then a couple of days later POUFF gone forever. What a waste of time that was.

Birgitte Heuschkel
5th Apr 2018, 7:56 AM
Well, I must say that I am indeed firmly convinced. I've been following your replies and playing TS2 for some twenty hours since my original post and ... well. Let's just say that I am wondering why I ever played TS3, and I am definitely not going to invest in expacs and stuff packs for TS4. TS2 has the one thing that TS3 always failed me on: Surprises. There's always something going on on the other end of the lot. Whether it's a random penguin talking about sumo wrestling with a snow man, a grandmother who obsesses about watching the ocean while thinking about death, or the gentle house cat fighting off the local wolves ... it's often funny, often absurd, and never boring. And I really, really needed that.

Sure, I miss TS3's open world -- there are some -gorgeous- custom worlds out there -- and CAST customization but missing those is a price I'm very willing to pay for that constant little stream of domestic life not getting bland and just focused on whatever life goal the sim needs to fulfill next. Rotational game play will take a little getting used to -- I had the progression in TS3 working decently with a couple of big core mods -- but I'll manage. I sure don't miss larva babies and relatives that treat each other as invisible because they only pursue whatever item their trait archetype obsesses about.

Justpetro
5th Apr 2018, 8:18 AM
Personally, I am not interested in watching Sims jogging/walking/driving/flying through gorgeous scenery. I am interested in the interactions and the personalities; so the open world is not something I want or miss. I will watch the scenery in my own hood and subhoods :)

As for spending money - I bought Sims 3 and tried very hard to like it. I played for a while; but I just could not fall in love with either the sims or the game.
Sims 4 was a birthday gift to me and again, I tried. I somehow find the Sims rather likable, but the damn emotions - sorry, but anyone gritting his teeth because he has not played a computer game on his cell phone for 2 h ours is just not for me. I know the gift was given with a lot of love and also was on the expensive side here.

@maxon - I had twins and one of them was jailed as a teen (not doing anything wrong). Sat there until he aged up and had no skills at all. Mother always went to visit him in prison (was never allowed to see him).

Now I know somebody will say there are mods. I don't care. I played Sims 2 for years without even knowing about mods and it was still not boring or stupid.

joandsarah77
5th Apr 2018, 8:45 AM
Well, I must say that I am indeed firmly convinced. I've been following your replies and playing TS2 for some twenty hours since my original post and ... well. Let's just say that I am wondering why I ever played TS3, and I am definitely not going to invest in expacs and stuff packs for TS4. TS2 has the one thing that TS3 always failed me on: Surprises. There's always something going on on the other end of the lot. Whether it's a random penguin talking about sumo wrestling with a snow man, a grandmother who obsesses about watching the ocean while thinking about death, or the gentle house cat fighting off the local wolves ... it's often funny, often absurd, and never boring. And I really, really needed that.

Sure, I miss TS3's open world -- there are some -gorgeous- custom worlds out there -- and CAST customization but missing those is a price I'm very willing to pay for that constant little stream of domestic life not getting bland and just focused on whatever life goal the sim needs to fulfill next. Rotational game play will take a little getting used to -- I had the progression in TS3 working decently with a couple of big core mods -- but I'll manage. I sure don't miss larva babies and relatives that treat each other as invisible because they only pursue whatever item their trait archetype obsesses about.

Great to hear. Make sure you have the essential mods to stop blowing your hood up and if there is any other CC we can help you with for added gameplay or annoyances let us know. Many of us here have played it the since it first came out and still get surprised. :)

FranH
5th Apr 2018, 10:09 AM
I must admit that at the beginning, I was tempted to buy 3, if only for the 'open world' idea-which in retrospect was the only thing that really appealed to me. That and the rather lovely backgrounds that seemed to be in it.

Then came along the sky mods that replaced the very limited and boring skies in 2, along with other mods to enhance/improve game play. Now I find that the scenery is just as gorgeous (if not better) than 3 and I can easily simulate the 'softer' look of 3 without having to sacrifice any of the original gameplay. The appeal of 3 is totally gone. It was a fleeting encounter.

As for 4, everything that has been stated about it has completely destroyed any inclination I had (which was none) to even try it. No neighborhoods, no fun, in essence. If I wanted to spend $200 for a mobile game, I'd have done it by now.

But I respect my money far more than that. I find it laughable that EA has produced such a lamentable successor to the most famous simulation in all gaming history. They must be very happy that they actually pulled off one of the biggest bait and switches in the last 30 years by doing it.

(All opinion expressed here is the author's and does not impute any derogatory inference of other people's purchase of 3 or 4.)

simmer22
5th Apr 2018, 11:00 AM
I have all 4 games, 3 of them installed on my laptop (TS3 doesn't work at the moment). They all have their good and bad sides, and I'm glad it's not a "pick and choose one" scenario for me. I've got all the TS2 games, all the EPs (no SPs) for TS3, and one EP for TS4. I'm not fond of how expansions are handled in TS4, all through Origin. I'm used to buy the CDs, and prefer that method, because they sometimes come at a reduced price (it's how I got most of my TS3 discs).

I am able to enjoy all the games, but I always come back to TS2. TS3 tends to take the enjoyment away from me because of the frequent bugs and because it's slow, and because a save can't manage to keep bug free for more than a few play sessions. TS4 seems a tiny bit more stable, but is slow despite laptop mode (srsly EA? WUUT?) plus have annoying bugs and whatnots. I've played more or less with the same neighborhoods (except for a few cases of going back to a recent backup) in TS2 since 2009 on my stationary, carried over from my older laptop (so it's from 2007/2008-ish, really). Sure, there are the occasional bugs, but nothing coming even close to as corrupting as those in TS3.

I also love to create for TS2, and probably have several GB worth of package files I've made. I've dabbled a little bit in creating for TS4, but it's just not the same. TS3 creating still feels a little over my head (possibly because I never bothered learning it).

I do find myself playing more family-oriented and legacy-ish on TS3 and TS4, possibly because of the game setup. In TS2 I prefer photoshooting, posing, storytelling, etc. I haven't played TS1 since somewhere around 2004-06. I also have the Medieval game, and Castaway Stories. Haven't played those two in a while, though.

After the sky mods and all the awesome neighborhood deco released the past few years for TS2, I don't miss the open hood aspect as much as I did previously. All I really missed was to be able to take pics outside where the background didn't look empty.

The beauty of the Sims games is that you don't have to pick one game and stick with it. You can play all of them and enjoy various bits and pieces from each game. I prefer TS2, but I do enjoy the other games too (as long as they don't bork up my saves...)

didyouevenmakeasound
5th Apr 2018, 11:45 AM
2 will forever be my favourite. It holds a nostalgia to it that will forever be in my heart - I was born the year it came out and got it when I was about five or six, and I've been playing it religiously ever since.

The characters are much more memorable, and their relationships are more tangible than the ones found in other games, I find.

Orphalesion
5th Apr 2018, 12:10 PM
Great to hear. Make sure you have the essential mods to stop blowing your hood up and if there is any other CC we can help you with for added gameplay or annoyances let us know. Many of us here have played it the since it first came out and still get surprised. :)

^ agreed.
Also since someone new has joined us (welcome @Brigitte_Heuschkel) is it time to do the "gooble gobble" chant? :)

Birgitte Heuschkel
5th Apr 2018, 12:15 PM
Great to hear. Make sure you have the essential mods to stop blowing your hood up and if there is any other CC we can help you with for added gameplay or annoyances let us know. Many of us here have played it the since it first came out and still get surprised. :)

I started out with MATY's archives and worked my way from there. I can tell there are many nice things out there, and I know I have quite the archive crawl ahead of me here just on MTS, but I figure I'll take it slow lest I install too much at once and explode everything. :D

joandsarah77
5th Apr 2018, 12:44 PM
So long as you have No Unlink on Delete, No Sim Loaded with Smarter EP Check and The Bat Box you should be good to go.

maxon
5th Apr 2018, 1:41 PM
This is from a build I made for Gayars's contest: http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/86237_180218003047-15.%20Dinner%20in%20the%20Pavillion.jpg

Ts2 still isn't perfect in the scenery department (though I could probably have done more there) but those horizons and sky mods are just awesome. Oh and Voeille's water mod too though it isn't in effect in that shot.

Bulbizarre
5th Apr 2018, 2:09 PM
If someone could fix the stupid lot impostors, I think most of us would be satisfied.

kittenn1011
5th Apr 2018, 5:45 PM
I started out with MATY's archives and worked my way from there. I can tell there are many nice things out there, and I know I have quite the archive crawl ahead of me here just on MTS, but I figure I'll take it slow lest I install too much at once and explode everything. :D

I recommend another good starter place is Cyjon's mods. There's quite a bit that mods out some of the cute autonomous behaviour that some find annoying (I don't, but it's something to keep in mind for once some of them lose the shinyness and might feel like they're interrupting play) and some interactions some find an annoying, but there's a number of essential fixes for bugs and broken mechanics too.

Justpetro
5th Apr 2018, 5:46 PM
Welcome, Brigitte - I hope you will enjoy Sims 2 with us :)

It is a lot easier to add mods while you play - not all of us like the same things. We don't mod out the same things either, because not all of us want to mod out the same things. So Jo's advice to start with the essential mods is perfect.
In time you will get to know what you want to change and what you want to keep.

gwynne
6th Apr 2018, 5:15 PM
Well, I must say that I am indeed firmly convinced. I've been following your replies and playing TS2 for some twenty hours since my original post and ... well. Let's just say that I am wondering why I ever played TS3, and I am definitely not going to invest in expacs and stuff packs for TS4. TS2 has the one thing that TS3 always failed me on: Surprises. There's always something going on on the other end of the lot. Whether it's a random penguin talking about sumo wrestling with a snow man, a grandmother who obsesses about watching the ocean while thinking about death, or the gentle house cat fighting off the local wolves ... it's often funny, often absurd, and never boring. And I really, really needed that.

Sure, I miss TS3's open world -- there are some -gorgeous- custom worlds out there -- and CAST customization but missing those is a price I'm very willing to pay for that constant little stream of domestic life not getting bland and just focused on whatever life goal the sim needs to fulfill next. Rotational game play will take a little getting used to -- I had the progression in TS3 working decently with a couple of big core mods -- but I'll manage. I sure don't miss larva babies and relatives that treat each other as invisible because they only pursue whatever item their trait archetype obsesses about.

I've been playing TS2 since launch, and I still post in this thread from time to time:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=574022&goto=lastpost

"What did you discover today while playing the sims?"

... meaning I'm still finding new stuff. The gameplay depth is ridiculous, and only gets more complex with thoughtful modding.