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leefish
25th Sep 2014, 3:18 AM
As some of you may be aware, Sims4Forum has been copying and hosting sims 4 content from all over the web, without explicit permission from the creators. Indeed, in some cases, they have hosted content that specifically had a TOU stating not to upload elsewhere. Additionally, the site is monetized allowing the forum owner to profit from these works that have been stolen from around the web and hosted without permission. Despite his claims, this IS copyright infringment.

Copyrights include intellectual property that is "fixed in a tangible medium of expression". The owner is the only one with the right to control reproduction, redistribution, and display of the work. Also, the copyright ownership is valid as soon as the work is fixed in the tangible medium. What does that mean for sims? If you have created any piece of custom content, it is fixed in a tangible medium of expression. It's no longer just an idea and therefore, you are the sole owner of that piece of work. You have copyright over the items you have produced and it cannot be distributed or displayed without your permission. (Source: Copyright Basics; AllLaw.com (http://www.alllaw.com/articles/intellectual_property/article11.asp))

So what can you do if your content is being hosted somewhere you did not authorize?

First, ask the person who is using your work to remove it. In the case of sims creations, this includes not ONLY the actual download but the pictures and text you have written. If they do not remove the content within a reasonable time frame (3 days) then you can contact their web host.

Follow the steps outlined below (as found on Mcanerin International (http://www.mcanerin.com/EN/articles/copyright-03.asp) regarding copyright law and DMCA notification criteria). In general, you need to:
Send the notification to the correct party.
Send it using the correct delivery method (ie fax, email, registered mail).
Clearly identify the date and jurisdiction (your location).
Clearly identify yourself and your website.
Clearly identify the copyright violator.
Clearly outline the copyright violations using searches, screenshots, and so forth.
Demand removal of the offending material.
Attest that you are the owner of the copyright and send it's registration (if you registered it).

Additionally, it would be wise to have a visible TOU (if you don't already) prohibiting the redistribution of your work.

leefish
25th Sep 2014, 3:21 AM
Following is a Sample DMCA Notice that a creator can submit to the web host of sims4forums.com

Send the email to E-mail: [email protected]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Notice of Copyright Infringement

The copyrighted work at issue is the text that appears on PUT LINK TO THE PAGES WITH STOLEN CONTENT HERE


The URLs where our copyrighted material is located include PUT LINK TO MTS CONTENT HERE

You can reach me at YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS for further information or clarification. My phone number is YOUR PHONE NUMBER and my mailing address is YOUR ADDRESS

The email address of the website owner, who has reprinted our content illegally, is [email protected]

I have a good faith belief that use of the copyrighted materials described above as allegedly infringing is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.


YOUR FULL NAME (CREATOR NAME IN BRACKETS)
September 25, 2014 [14:50]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

plasticbox
25th Sep 2014, 4:27 AM
Just a little translation help for non-English users and those who aren't sure where all the shiny buttons are:

DMCA = Digital Millennium Copyright Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act)

Bluehost.com is the ISP for Sims4forums. On their terms of service (http://www.bluehost.com/terms) page they give instructions for what to do in case of copyright infringement ( http://www.bluehost.com/copyright-claims-policy) (this is what Lee posted, only in more words) and also some interesting definitions of what constitutes acceptable use ( http://www.bluehost.com/acceptable-use-policy):

2. Prohibited Offerings.

No Subscriber may utilize the Services to provide, sell or offer to sell the following: controlled substances; illegal drugs and drug contraband; weapons; pirated materials; instructions on making, assembling or obtaining illegal goods or weapons to attack others; information used to violate the copyright(s) of, violate the trademark(s) of or to destroy others' intellectual property or information; information used to illegally harm any people or animals; pornography, nudity, sexual products, programs or services; escort services or other content deemed adult related.

Some of their content is explicitely marked as "18+"/"NSFW".


5. Violations of Intellectual Property Rights.

Any violation of any person's or entity's intellectual property rights, rights of privacy, rights of publicity or other personal rights is prohibited. Bluehost is required by law to remove or block access to content appearing on or through the Services upon receipt of proper notice of copyright infringement (please see the Copyright Claims Policy here for more information).

Since the owner is claiming "We only host the files [..] because we want files to live on for as long as we exist. [..] know the frustration of looking for a mod I used to have and not being able to find it because the person who made it deleted their tumblr or their blog for whatever reason" (see other thread), maybe this would also apply:

14. BACKUP STORAGE.

BLUEHOST OFFERS ITS SERVICES TO HOST WEB SITES, NOT TO STORE DATA. USING AN ACCOUNT AS AN ONLINE STORAGE SPACE FOR ARCHIVING ELECTRONIC FILES IS PROHIBITED AND WILL RESULT IN TERMINATION OF HOSTING SERVICES WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE. (emphasis original)

All quotes from http://www.bluehost.com/acceptable-use-policy .

Please be aware you can only make a copyright claim in your own name (or in case an author has authorised you to act on their behalf). Don't file claims about the content of other creators!


TOU = Terms of Use = your "Policy" for MTS creators. This does not have a free text option but you can check "Special -- see profile" and then edit your profile accordingly (scroll down to "About Me / Policy / Other Text"). This is an option that only creators have, because others don't need it.

(I left mine as it was, only added "No reuploading of any part of my uploads (including pictures and description) at sims4forum.com. See here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4545628) as for why." at the bottom)

emifan
25th Sep 2014, 9:11 AM
Thanks leefish & plasticbox for explanation. Not everyone is techy enough to figure it all out on his/her own.
But, let's be honest - once you "share" something on Internet, even if you just post it on cloud drive (DropBox, OneDrive, Google Drive), or even use email to send it -
aware it can be used without your permission.

Neither your own pledge nor law (DMCA whatever) can stop it. As long as something yours gets to computer/service you do not own - it's no longer yours.
So, if you want to keep anything secure - do not upload it anywhere, including e-mail, and store it on a PC totally disconnected from Internet (and better do not plug any external storage that does not belong to you too).

Grig 32
25th Sep 2014, 9:26 AM
Sadly, this is one of the problems of the internet - it's like pee in a swimming pool; once it's in there it's in there. You can't take it out... and once someone pirates or posts something without permission, it's going to be hosted on other sites :(

sailfindragon
25th Sep 2014, 9:29 AM
No doubt we will get the peeps saying. You put in the game and now EA owns it, so I can do what I want with it. I have had that before!

KirNoLan
25th Sep 2014, 10:50 AM
First post here, but I joined that site and made the mistake of believing some of the mods there were created by the site owners. When I thanked them for one of them, they responded some time afterwards that the person that needed thanking was from here and that the mod was originally posted here. I felt awful and felt a need to apologize to scripthoge for mistaking the ownership.

Ok, I'll go back to lurking, downloading, and trying to figure out how I can share my sims here now.

Inge Jones
25th Sep 2014, 11:24 AM
I've trained myself not to care if it happens to mine. Keeps the blood pressure even.

FifthAce2007
25th Sep 2014, 11:31 AM
Yep they've nabbed my wedding dresses as well...and probably other things I've yet to find.

plasticbox
25th Sep 2014, 12:23 PM
Here's a list of content he had C+Pd as of two days ago -- not saying it's complete:
(This is from the posts in the mods forum)


Mods

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535402
get-town-population (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-get-town-population-mod.162/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535846
moveobjects-on-cheat (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-moveobjects-on-cheat.161/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535751
social-event-destination-party (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/new-social-event-destination-party.160/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535549
change-sim-name-or-gender-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-change-sim-name-or-gender-mod.159/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535512
longer-shorter-pregnancy-length-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-longer-shorter-pregnancy-length-mod.158/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535438
smaller-censor-mosaic (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-smaller-censor-mosaic-mod.157/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535780
expanded-physique-range-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-expanded-physique-range-mod-heavy-lean-fit-bony.156/)

reduced-townie-generating (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535110

simocide-kill-your-sims (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/script-simocide-kill-your-sims.129/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534853

babies-for-everyone (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-babies-for-everyone-mod.127/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534978

cheaper-bills-mod-not-too-high-not-too-low (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-realistic-cheaper-bills-mod-not-too-high-not-too-low.125/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534681

no-friendship-romantic-relationship-decay (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-friendship-romantic-relationship-decay-mod.124/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534925

no-motives-decay (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-motives-decay-mod-hunger-fun-energy-etc.123/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534590

sims-4-tv-and-computer-menu-revamp (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/the-sims-4-tv-and-computer-menu-revamp-mod.86/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533779

weirder-walkstyles-disabled (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-weirder-walkstyles-disabled-mod.85/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534038

no-blur-in-the-distance (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-blur-in-the-distance-mod.55/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532909

no-intro-title-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-intro-title-mod.54/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532966

slow-time-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-slow-time-mod.52/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533026

stand-still-in-cas (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/stand-still-in-cas.49/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532891

sims-4-adjustable-lighting-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-adjustable-lighting-mod-brighter-lights.48/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533562

no-fade-sims-and-objects (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-fade-sims-and-objects-mod.87/)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533846

To me it looks like ther's even more now .. in their entire Mods category I only see one that might not be from here. All are uploaded by the site owner, so he can't even blame it on "some newbie who uploaded something to our site" like he did in the case of kiwisims (http://kiwisims4.tumblr.com/post/98179633202/stolen-cc).


CAS Parts

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535895
the-joker-heath-ledger (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/the-joker-heath-ledger-sim.155/) <-- funny how yesterday he he bitched about how this was illegal and copyright infringement .. when he had already C+Pd it himself :faceslap:

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532918
sims-4-superman-outfit (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-superman-outfit-skin-by-guidion.61/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533140
sims-4-logo-black-tshirt (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-logo-black-tshirt-by-huggiebear.62/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534882
star-wars-costume-sweaters (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/star-wars-costume-sweaters-darth-vader-r2d2.19/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534715
sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses.105/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532472
michael-jackson-sim-by-lunararc (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-michael-jackson-sim-by-lunararc.64/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535354
captivating-eyes-20-colors (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/captivating-eyes-20-colors-non-default.154/)

[http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532453
black-alien-eyes-by-lukeproduction (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-black-alien-eyes-by-lukeproduction.63/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534331
heliantheas-super-bland-comic-eyes (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/heliantheas-super-bland-comic-eyes-default-replacements-non-defaults.108/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534004
sims-4-dead-trees-female-back-tattoo (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-dead-trees-female-back-tattoo.106/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534447
star-trek-original-series-male-shirts (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/star-trek-original-series-male-shirts.104/)

http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=534882
halloween-party-dresses-by-kitonlyhuman (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-halloween-party-dresses-by-kitonlyhuman.126/)



Lots

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534138
villa-capra-an-italian-masterpiece (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/villa-capra-an-italian-masterpiece-no-cc.88/)

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533397
lilly-house-no-cc-by-volvenom (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/lilly-house-no-cc-by-volvenom.59/)



Basically one can just go to Chris' profile: http://sims4forum.com/members/chris.1 , scroll down to "Find all content by Chris" (sic) and get an 8 page list of stuff he C+Pd from here.

mustluvcatz
25th Sep 2014, 12:43 PM
....Neither your own pledge nor law (DMCA whatever) can stop it. As long as something yours gets to computer/service you do not own - it's no longer yours.

So not true. It's attitudes like yours (Hey, it's on the internet so I can do whatever I want with it and nothing can stop me!!) that helped the DMCA, and similar laws/acts, come about in the first place.

plasticbox
25th Sep 2014, 1:06 PM
It's a bit like saying "if you park your car in the street, it's not yours anymore", yes (which is obviously nonsense) -- but emifan did not say "Hey, it's on the internet so I can do whatever I want with it" .. he's only being very pessimistic. That is not the same as actively taking advantage of others.

mgomez
25th Sep 2014, 1:11 PM
If you would like to remove their mods from Google's search results, file a DMCA request with Google through this tool (https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/dmca-dashboard).

plasticbox
25th Sep 2014, 1:49 PM
@Volvenom @Amichan619 @KitOnlyHuman @MaclimesZero @flanah @Helianthea @LukeProduction @Vampire_aninyosaloh @Lunararc @FifthAce2007 @guidion @Shimrod101 @IceM @BiscoMix @AgonistAgent @fetusdip @EVOL_EVOLVED @MasterDinadan @scumbumbo @Zerbu @TwistedMexi -- just making sure you see this thread.

Discussion thread with posts by Sims4forum is here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080), for reference. Please do not quote this post when replying! It'll fire off a new notification every time. Thanks!

FifthAce2007
25th Sep 2014, 2:08 PM
Thanks, although that topic has now been closed.

Just want to clear up the confusion/grey area about copyright ownership: In the case of clothing, or buy/build mode items: Regardless of if the result is owned by EA by way of the EULA, they ALL contain IMAGES made by the individual user who created the clothing/object, and copyright ownership of those images remain with the person who created them.

Ego, even if they can successfully argue that the .package is owned via EA and not the creator, in order for them to make use of them, they would need to remove the image files within each package first ;)

It's based upon the same principle as photography. Regardless of what the photograph is of, the person who TOOK it automaticaly has full ownership unless they explicity give up that ownership.

plasticbox
25th Sep 2014, 2:19 PM
Yeah sure - also this is not just about the CC files themselves but also about the pics and descriptions he copied (which now make up 98% of his Mods forum). This is content just as well which took time and effort to make.

All he wants IMO is spiffy up his site in order to get more people to pay for those "VIP accounts" he's advertising all over the place.


(That thread is closed, yes, but his comments are still very entertaining.)

TwistedMexi
25th Sep 2014, 2:20 PM
@Volvenom @Amichan619 @KitOnlyHuman @MaclimesZero @flanah @Helianthea @LukeProduction @Vampire_aninyosaloh @Lunararc @FifthAce2007 @guidion @Shimrod101 @IceM @BiscoMix @AgonistAgent @fetusdip @EVOL_EVOLVED @MasterDinadan @scumbumbo @Zerbu @TwistedMexi -- just making sure you see this thread.

Discussion thread with posts by Sims4forum is here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080), for reference.

Thanks. I'll send a DMCA request shortly. Hopefully it gets somewhere.

KitOnlyHuman
25th Sep 2014, 2:54 PM
@Volvenom @Amichan619 @KitOnlyHuman @MaclimesZero @flanah @Helianthea @LukeProduction @Vampire_aninyosaloh @Lunararc @FifthAce2007 @guidion @Shimrod101 @IceM @BiscoMix @AgonistAgent @fetusdip @EVOL_EVOLVED @MasterDinadan @scumbumbo @Zerbu @TwistedMexi -- just making sure you see this thread.

Discussion thread with posts by Sims4forum is here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080), for reference.

Thank you for tagging me. =)

FifthAce2007
25th Sep 2014, 3:35 PM
Could people please stop quoting the comment by plasticbox with the tags in...it triggers a new PM each time :rofl:

Christine11778
25th Sep 2014, 5:52 PM
The one thing I have never understood about people stealing content because "some people are too lazy/whatever your reason here" to look for it themselves, why not just start a finds site? It is obvious you have spent enough time trolling the internet looking for content to steal, why not just have a finds site and you can send people to the original creator to download the item?

fakepeeps7
25th Sep 2014, 8:55 PM
If this guy is breaking copyright laws and making money by doing so, why can't his site be shut down? Seems to me that what he's doing is kind of illegal...

leefish
25th Sep 2014, 9:03 PM
@fakepeeps7 - the way it works is that you first ask them nice; if they don't comply then you write to the host.

A lot of hosts, when faced with a LOT of complaints about one site, just suspend the site. Basically shuts it down.

plasticbox
25th Sep 2014, 9:18 PM
why can't his site be shut down?

I kind of assumed that that was the whole point of this thread .. =P it's not going to shut down by itself.

mustluvcatz
25th Sep 2014, 9:48 PM
To speed things along, everyone plasticbox mentioned should send their "Please remove my content" request NOW. So should anyone who's content is there that wasn't mentioned. And hey! Spread the word so those who's content wasn't from here to begin with will know to send one, too.

Volvenom
25th Sep 2014, 9:54 PM
Claim sent, thanks for letting me know.

zigersimmer
25th Sep 2014, 10:51 PM
Sadly, this is one of the problems of the internet - it's like pee in a swimming pool; once it's in there it's in there. You can't take it out... and once someone pirates or posts something without permission, it's going to be hosted on other sites :(I wonder how profitable it would be to pirate pee?

Volvenom
25th Sep 2014, 11:01 PM
I live and have to love internet. That fact that some people abuse it is something I have to live with and deal with. I can't take them all, but I can do my share. I just don't understand this "you can't do anything about that" attitude, it just never accomplish anything. I'm not going to make it a big thing, but I will do some. If many others send the same complaints as I did, it will be noticed by the host. Since it's self hosted they can just move the blog I guess, but he will have realized that it's not ok.

BulldozerIvan
25th Sep 2014, 11:28 PM
There are two sides to this coin. Yes, theft is irritating. But on the plus side...if something of yours is being stolen, it means there's a demand for it. It's been my experience with the Sims 4 Gallery.

I post the Godfather, and get a few downloads. I post the cast of Sharknado, and get no downloads. I post the Flippo family, and get questions instead of downloads.

But I have half a mind to ask EA to ban Disney princesses because it seems some days like that's all the Gallery posters ever care to post. I've got versions of Ariel and Elsa coming out of my ears at this point, and am annoyed by the complete lack of originality in that Gallery.

Vampire_aninyosaloh
26th Sep 2014, 12:06 AM
To speed things along, everyone plasticbox mentioned should send their "Please remove my content" request NOW. So should anyone who's content is there that wasn't mentioned. And hey! Spread the word so those who's content wasn't from here to begin with will know to send one, too.

I asked him to take down my content yesterday. Today he replied giving me two choices: give a link to my blog/website other than MTS because he doesn't want to link to MTS or join the website and link to my account there. I replied asking again to take it down and I haven't got an answer after 11 hours. I'm patient, and I can wait for a few days... but not more.

heaven
26th Sep 2014, 12:24 AM
I asked him to take down my content yesterday. Today he replied giving me two choices: give a link to my blog/website other than MTS because he doesn't want to link to MTS or join the website and link to my account there. I replied asking again to take it down and I haven't got an answer after 11 hours. I'm patient, and I can wait for a few days... but not more.

Wait, so now he is taking stuff and not even going to link/credit back to MTS because he has his ickle feelings hurt? Gheesh.

BulldozerIvan
26th Sep 2014, 12:32 AM
Visited that site just now. He has a filter system on there that won't let me use his search unit unless I disable AdBlockPlus. But since everything on that site looked like spam anyway, I wasn't about to do that. A quick scan of his offerings revealed not a whole lot of characters being ripped off, so at least (from what I can tell) he isn't stealing from me.

Even so, it would appear that he is trying to be the Sexy Sims of Sims 4, since that site for Sims 2 and 3 is basically dead now. Every nudity mod, nudity patch, and 18+ item for Sims 4 in existence seems to be there. There's no way he or his friends made all that much TS4 porn, and even those who do would seldom advertise it by calling it porn outright, the way he does. And the way he advertises it is like one of those 90's used car ads by a noisy dealer with no shame.

The site is ugly, through and through. It makes everything as loud and flashy as possible. If it blinked more, it would be a death sentence to an epileptic. Whoever runs it has no shame, and little sense of taste. The entire thing is him basically trolling the whole rest of the Sims modding community. I can just about see him posting a "U mad?" trollface on the front page, and he may as well. Seriously...it is entirely possible to feel less violated after a trip to Craigslist.

HugeLunatic
26th Sep 2014, 12:45 AM
...
Even so, it would appear that he is trying to be the Sexy Sims of Sims 4, since that site for Sims 2 and 3 is basically dead now. ....

Not so, we are working on getting it upgraded for TS4. :)

BulldozerIvan
26th Sep 2014, 12:52 AM
Not so, we are working on getting it upgraded for TS4. :)

If I ever need anatomical correctness of Sims 4, I'll make note of that. But yeah, everything at Sims4Forum appears to have been stolen from somewhere else. It is the Craigslist of Sims fan sites. (And that's saying something, given how the archive of PaySitesMustBeDestroyed used to be done.)

mustluvcatz
26th Sep 2014, 12:58 AM
@Vampire_aninyosaloh - Seriously? You should reply to him telling him that he doesn't get to give YOU choices. It's your content and you want it off that site. Oh my.. the fact that he thinks he can give an ultimatum like that, excuse me while I laugh til I puke.

bnefriends
26th Sep 2014, 1:06 AM
Thanks leefish & plasticbox for explanation. Not everyone is techy enough to figure it all out on his/her own.
But, let's be honest - once you "share" something on Internet, even if you just post it on cloud drive (DropBox, OneDrive, Google Drive), or even use email to send it -
aware it can be used without your permission.

Neither your own pledge nor law (DMCA whatever) can stop it. As long as something yours gets to computer/service you do not own - it's no longer yours.
So, if you want to keep anything secure - do not upload it anywhere, including e-mail, and store it on a PC totally disconnected from Internet (and better do not plug any external storage that does not belong to you too).

So does that mean I can download The Sims 4 off of a piracy website AND seed it, since EA shared the game online through Origin?

Please go and educate yourself on copyright laws before you make statements like that. Just because people do things doesn't mean it's legal.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 1:06 AM
Regarding searching on that site, I use Noscript (which also means I see hardly any ads anywhere) and I can use the search feature just fine.

Also, "Mod The Sims - Sims4Forum and Content Theft" and "Sims4Forum Now Stealing Others Mods And Charging Users To ..." as well as the tumblr tag http://www.tumblr.com/search/sims4forum are meanwhile on page 1 of Google results when searching for "Sims4Forum" (and I get German-language results too (to unrelated German forums with the same name) so for others these might rank even higher).

Kent_Bari
26th Sep 2014, 1:37 AM
Thanks leefish & plasticbox for explanation. Not everyone is techy enough to figure it all out on his/her own.
But, let's be honest - once you "share" something on Internet, even if you just post it on cloud drive (DropBox, OneDrive, Google Drive), or even use email to send it -
aware it can be used without your permission.

Neither your own pledge nor law (DMCA whatever) can stop it. As long as something yours gets to computer/service you do not own - it's no longer yours.
So, if you want to keep anything secure - do not upload it anywhere, including e-mail, and store it on a PC totally disconnected from Internet (and better do not plug any external storage that does not belong to you too).


You just made alot of peoples IQs drop from saying that. Do you not know what the DMCA is? Plus, here's a quick fact check for you: When you create something that is from YOUR OWN art, it is automatically copyright. People who want to host it cannot just i.e "walk up and just take it off the wall" use it without that creators consent. You made me just realize there are people like you that overlook the facts and say what they think is true. I'm an art student and i know copyright infringement when i see it in plain sight. There's no hiding behind the lies of where you got it because where ever the creator of the work is will come and even give proof that it is his/her work. (Today and ever since the renaissance era) Artists always put their signature on each created piece of canvas.

Next time kid, Logic needed to come into play.

BulldozerIvan
26th Sep 2014, 1:47 AM
Thanks leefish & plasticbox for explanation. Not everyone is techy enough to figure it all out on his/her own.
But, let's be honest - once you "share" something on Internet, even if you just post it on cloud drive (DropBox, OneDrive, Google Drive), or even use email to send it -
aware it can be used without your permission.

Neither your own pledge nor law (DMCA whatever) can stop it. As long as something yours gets to computer/service you do not own - it's no longer yours.
So, if you want to keep anything secure - do not upload it anywhere, including e-mail, and store it on a PC totally disconnected from Internet (and better do not plug any external storage that does not belong to you too).

I get what you're trying to say; but that was a poor choice of words.

To spare you from future other-posters' hate, here's a more correct way of wording it: "Once you share something, regulating its redistribution effectively becomes next to impossible. If you wish to avoid theft too greatly, you'll never post anywhere. Every post comes with risks attached."

Phrasing can be everything.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 1:51 AM
I asked him to take down my content yesterday. Today he replied giving me two choices: give a link to my blog/website other than MTS because he doesn't want to link to MTS or join the website and link to my account there. I replied asking again to take it down and I haven't got an answer after 11 hours. I'm patient, and I can wait for a few days... but not more.

After 3 days, fill in the DMCA and mail it to the email given in the sample form. If you all do this then his site will be taken away by his host. Really.

scumbumbo
26th Sep 2014, 4:38 AM
Here's a list of content he had C+Pd as of two days ago -- not saying it's complete:

Mods
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535549
change-sim-name-or-gender-mod (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-change-sim-name-or-gender-mod.159/)


Thanks for the info. I have sent a request to have the content removed.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 6:26 AM
Also, here is a link to their terms of service: http://sims4forum.com/help/terms

You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.

All Content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential.

We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the Service at any time.

You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content.

These terms may be changed at any time without notice.

If you do not agree with these terms, please do not register or use this Service. If you wish to close your account, please contact us.

:rofl:

ChinchillaJesus
26th Sep 2014, 7:21 AM
I just checked back on the site, the prick FINALLY took down the stuff he stole.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 7:28 AM
Most of the content is still there; please, creators, if you want to have your work removed from his site, just check for your work being hosted there and ask for it to be removed. If it is NOT removed then you send the DMCA (give him 3 days to comply with your request).

FifthAce2007
26th Sep 2014, 7:57 AM
I've just recieved the following reply to my email to their web host:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Legal Department.

We have contacted the owner and have requested the violation be removed.
Please allow 48 hours for any violations to be removed.

Please review the web site after the expiration of the 48 hour notice period, and notify us in the event you determine that the alleged infringing material has not been eliminated or that access to it has not been disabled, and we will take further action.

Please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Legal Department
560 E Timpanogos Parkway
Orem, UT 84097
V: (888) 401-HOST | F: 801-765-1992

simension
26th Sep 2014, 8:28 AM
Hello simmers,
I appreciate every single bit of information that helps ppl to understand that braking a copyright is "not just fun", "allowed ayway", "nothing to care about": Creating takes skill, creativity and time. This needs to be respected by everyone. Otherwise there might be a day noone is interested in creating anymore! A farmer would not go on planting and harvesting if all his produce is stolen afterwards all the time!
Thank you for this thread!
Greetings
simension

blakegriplingph
26th Sep 2014, 10:16 AM
I'm no stranger to this either, as it's pretty much a recurring problem in GTAForums, where my friends and I have been complaining (http://gtaforums.com/topic/706883-gtagarage-moduser-reports/page-15) about South Asian kids cobbling up "mod packs" comprised of high-poly Lambos and CLEO scripts they didn't obviously make. I can tell you that scouring GTAG for dupes and stolen mods is a pain in the butt - I had to do hex comparisons, MD5 checks, google-fu, etc. just to see if a suspicious-looking mod is indeed appropriated.

I don't really mind if at least some of my mods are mirrored or edited by a third party, for as long as they link back to my page or credit yours truly, but this is by and large crass and disrespectful for those who worked hard on making the game even better. Making money from it added insult to the injury, so to speak.

flanah
26th Sep 2014, 10:22 AM
@Volvenom @Amichan619 @KitOnlyHuman @MaclimesZero @flanah @Helianthea @LukeProduction @Vampire_aninyosaloh @Lunararc @FifthAce2007 @guidion @Shimrod101 @IceM @BiscoMix @AgonistAgent @fetusdip @EVOL_EVOLVED @MasterDinadan @scumbumbo @Zerbu @TwistedMexi -- just making sure you see this thread.

Discussion thread with posts by Sims4forum is here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080), for reference.

Thanks for the mention <3

LukeProduction
26th Sep 2014, 12:08 PM
@Volvenom @Amichan619 @KitOnlyHuman @MaclimesZero @flanah @Helianthea @LukeProduction @Vampire_aninyosaloh @Lunararc @FifthAce2007 @guidion @Shimrod101 @IceM @BiscoMix @AgonistAgent @fetusdip @EVOL_EVOLVED @MasterDinadan @scumbumbo @Zerbu @TwistedMexi -- just making sure you see this thread.

Discussion thread with posts by Sims4forum is here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080), for reference.

Oh thank you!

Vampire_aninyosaloh
26th Sep 2014, 1:27 PM
I think he isn't answering my second email because in the first one I was kind of nice and in the second one not so much :lol: Anyways, I'll give him two more days, as Lee said.

At least he seems not to be adding new MTS cc:

I dont plan on sharing anything from MTS for a while, or at least not without permission from the creators over there. Caused a bit of a stir that I did so :(

But he hasn't taken down the one he already uploaded either. And does that mean that he is only not uploading cc from MTS because we have complained and other creators who haven't complained are ok to steal from?

Kafelove
26th Sep 2014, 1:37 PM
Thanks for all of the information :)
I'd also like to add that I don't understand all this stealing thing... I just can't belive that some people are too lazy to do something by themselves so they claim other people creations as their own ones... Okay, some of them just can't do them but that's no point! I also can't do many things such as creation new furniture meshes, but I could never steal! people who do it are just... pathetic x.x

nkotbsbfan78
26th Sep 2014, 2:07 PM
Thanks for the info. I will look if I go into other site and see something from here with no link back to this place.

Can't believe other people will do that and ASK to pay to get these CC. I don't have Sims 4 but I like checking out CC for Sims 4 and try do it on my own.

The creator spends so much time on making these wonderful CC that I can't believe other will steal it just because /its out there to the world/.

Because of the creator they inspire me to make CC. It is a slow process for me, but if they can spend hours making it look right, then so can I. I gotten a lot help from this site.

The creator are our teachers and as students we should respect them and just give them cookies for all the wonderful work they have done in making our Sims look fabulous! :D

KitOnlyHuman
26th Sep 2014, 2:11 PM
I would recommend creators put a link at the bottom of the MTS page to their MTS profile (or tumblr and so on if that's what you prefer). When he copied my halloween dresses over he copied all the text including my Tumblr link. Honestly, I don't really feel good about him reuploading my one item, but I'm not going to pursue it since it does link back to me. But I have added a ToU at the bottom of my pages now too.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 2:19 PM
TOU will not help, since he's been editing "Please no reuploading" out of post texts before. See Vampire's Heath Ledger sim for instance:

Original (http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=535895) -- "[..] please credit me. Do NOT upload the sim or its cc anywhere though", line 3 of post text

C+P (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/the-joker-heath-ledger-sim.155/) with that line missing. He also reuploaded the CC by her.

And then she was basically told to fuck off when she requested removal (see her earlier post here, "I asked him to take down my content yesterday. Today he replied giving me two choices: give a link to my blog/website other than MTS because he doesn't want to link to MTS or join the website and link to my account there. I replied asking again to take it down and I haven't got an answer after 11 hours."

Vampire_aninyosaloh
26th Sep 2014, 3:29 PM
After I wrote again he has posted a link to my MTS download and is not hosting my files anymore.

guidion
26th Sep 2014, 6:42 PM
I just requested he remove my Superman Outfit mod, and this guy was very polite about it. He did not seem to understand that the content may be free here, but that does not make it public domain. I tried to explain to him that creators here get credit for their downloads, and that by hosting their content, they are loosing those stats. I did not use the template from the first/second post, I just used the contact us button, and explained myself, and he was quick to change his site to link here to the download. Please do not hate this guy for being wrong, he is just getting into downloads (he told me anyway), and was trying to fill his site with content. I hope he gets that stealing content (even though he does not seem to get that he is) is wrong, and stops doing this, but we do not need to hate on him for trying to get another site up (just for doing it wrong LOL), as variety is the spice of life.

I am not saying let him continue, by the way, definitely go to him and get him to remove anything he has of yours that you are not okay with him using!

Thanks to the moderators here for letting me know this was happening!

p.s. PLEASE!!! stop quoting the post with all of the @usernames as it sends EVERYONE that is mentioned a PM, I had 5 when i got here today, LOL

Helianthea
26th Sep 2014, 6:55 PM
Thanks for the mention, plasticbox. Very much appreciated :)

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 7:12 PM
Not to be devil's advocate here, but you cannot really complain copyright, since you do not own the original content yourselves. The modifications are all made to a game that has an existing copyright. All you are doing is recoloring existing material, and even if you do somehow recreate something new, it is derivative work. So in all fairness while you feel like you own something here, EA technically owns it all and can revoke the use of it anytime they like.

Just my two cents.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 7:14 PM
jsauce - actually the creators do own copyright. Read the EA EULA and the first post of this thread.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 7:21 PM
I think you are confusing ownership with authorship, as well.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 7:27 PM
jsauce - actually the creators do own copyright. Read the EA EULA and the first post of this thread.

Do you have a copy of the EULA handy that states that EA gives up their rights to copyright? I'd love to see this because it would be one of the greatest and dumbest mistakes in the history of intellectual property law. It's highly doubtful they have done this despite what you believe. As to the first post, the law only applies to people who actually own the copyright, which you do not.

The problem you have is that you are asserting copyright over a medium you already do not own. Now again if EA in the dumbest move in history has given you this right, my mistake, however that would be like you taking a bite of my pizza and asserting its yours simply because it has your teeth marks in it.

It doesn't work like that. When you modify existing code, even with the permission of the original owners, you do so knowing you give up the right to claim copyright on that work. It's like when you go to work at a software company and while working there design some cool software, which your company may technically own by virtue of you working for them.

Volvenom
26th Sep 2014, 7:30 PM
2 things here, I have a policy on my main profile page here and that should be enough, I'm not going to repeat myself on every upload I do. It's common sence really. Some people may consider what we make for Sims3 art and that is one of the oldest occupations in the world. That has never kept people away from illegal copying and selling it off as the original for wheelbarrows of cash.

Another thing is with this game what we as creators makes are often miles away from anything EA would use money on. Giving EA the right to such work is just plain silly.


It's like when you go to work at a software company and while working there design some cool software, which your company may technically own by virtue of you working for them.

LOL, show me my paycheck.

Otherwise read the thread before you post in it.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 7:35 PM
It's like when you go to work at a software company and while working there design some cool software, which your company may technically own by virtue of you working for them.

Are we all employed at EA? I think not. Also, this isn't just about the actual downloadable files but also about the content of his site (i.e. pictures and descriptions) that he's been copy+pasting from elsewhere.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 7:37 PM
Giving EA the right to such work is just plain silly.

Doesn't matter under copyright law, its derivative work. That means EA and only EA can claim ownership, unless they grant that right expressly to you.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 7:42 PM
Are we all employed at EA? I think not. Also, this isn't just about the actual downloadable files but also about the content of his site (i.e. pictures and descriptions) that he's been copy+pasting from elsewhere.

Clearly you didn't comprehend what I was implying, which is that EA holds the original copyrighted work. Just because you do some work on their product, doesn't mean it becomes yours by virtue of the work. Its also an example of how software companies due their due diligence in making sure anyone modifying any of their code understands that person does not own it. They have teams of lawyers who work on just this specific thing. I used to work for a software company, they know exactly how to make sure no matter what you do, they own it.


To them copying images from your site, that I agree they most certainly cannot do unless of course those images are images from within the game which again of course belong to EA, not you. So if they for example took a copy of an original image you crafted for your site and put it on theirs that would be copyright infringement, but a screenshot of a game with existing copyrights would not.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 7:48 PM
Correct. At this moment in time sims4forums is using images made by the creators; they are using text written by the creators; they are sharing the creators work, not EA's. He is also hotlinking the images; but that is not copyright, that is bandwidth theft.

The SIMS4 EULA can be downloaded here; http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/771451/important-points-in-the-eula

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 7:49 PM
EA holds the original copyrighted work. Just because you do some work on their product, doesn't mean it becomes yours by virtue of the work.

No creator has been claiming they would own rights to the actual game. What we claim is that *our* work is ours and can't be used by third parties for profit.


When you modify existing code, even with the permission of the original owners, you do so knowing you give up the right to claim copyright on that work.

The only difficulty that could arise from a "derivative work" situation is between the creators (between EA and creators in this case), not between creators and third parties. This is like claiming Tainted Love (the Soft Cell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeJkbqjQvnk) version or any of the countless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQV9Cpm9jLQ) other (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nO_P4BH4pA) covers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj46E348NhE)) is free for everyone to sell as they please because it is "modifying existing music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSehtaY6k1U)".

Volvenom
26th Sep 2014, 7:54 PM
I just read a bit about the right to hiphop music, you know the kind where they move the record distorting a record by someone else, that was complicated. I'm trying to find music for my videos and even that is hard. If I make it myself with bits from others and need concent from everyone owning a tiny fraction of it.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 7:58 PM
Correct. At this moment in time sims4forums is using images made by the creators; they are using text written by the creators; they are sharing the creators work, not EA's. He is also hotlinking the images; but that is not copyright, that is bandwidth theft.

The SIMS4 EULA can be downloaded here; http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/771451/important-points-in-the-eula

As I thought it pretty much says exactly as I thought it would, specifically:

The Application is licensed, and not sold, to you for use only under the terms of this License. Except as expressly licensed to you herein, EA reserves all right, title and interest in the Application and all software delivered through the Application (including all characters, storyline, images, photographs, animations, video, music, text), and all associated copyrights, trademarks, and other intellectual property rights therein. The License is limited to the intellectual property rights of EA and its licensors in the Application and does not include any rights to other patents or
intellectual property.

That unequivocally states they own the game and everything that is derived from it including any images or characters or content. That link doesn't even include the full EULA so i read the whole thing and there is no mention of granted rights under it. so you have no claim to ownership.

Now someone stealing images and stuff, yeah that kind of thing, as long as its original you have every right to be mad about. I've actually been in this position personally before, someone stole a plugin I developed for a game translated into a bunch of languages and passed it off as his own. Am I mad? Yeah, but the reality is that in the end there is very little recourse unless you have a lot of resources to fight with. This is really why I mentioned this all in the first place.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 8:04 PM
[QUOTE=plasticbox]No creator has been claiming they would own rights to the actual game. What we claim is that *our* work is ours and can't be used by third parties for profit.


The problem and I understand your frustration with this situation is that you assume if you work thousands of hours on something that it should be yours and under the law, that is only true if it was derived entirely from your own work. However, since your work, no matter how much time you put into it would not exist if not for the game itself, then it is derived from it, and EA owns it. One because the law says they do, and two because when you installed the game you agreed to their EULA which actually does specifically say they own it. Now as for them making profit, you are right they cannot profit from the work anymore than you could, but its not your fight, its technically EA's if they wanted to fight it.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 8:05 PM
He is also hotlinking the images; but that is not copyright, that is bandwidth theft.

That is actually both.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 8:08 PM
since your work, no matter how much time you put into it would not exist if not for the game itself, then it is derived from it, and EA owns it.

This is rubbish. This is like saying Nikon own all photography made with their cameras, Adobe own all graphic design made with their tools, and IKEA own all books that were written while sitting on one of their chairs. :rolleyes: And therefore, all texts, pictures, and music in the world are free-for-all unless they have been etched into clay with a hand-tooled stick. Or what?

You don't seem to know how derivative works .. work.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 8:08 PM
That is actually both.

You can stop that fairly easily with a modification to your .htaccess file.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 8:09 PM
Right, we have an issue with the website stealing the creators content. Basically, the main thing is to ask him to remove it; if he fails to do that then a DMCA (enough of them) will probably cause his site to be suspended. His site is bluehost who are well known for shooting first and asking questions later. A DMCA is free to send; the only resource required is about half an hour of a persons time.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 8:10 PM
You can stop that fairly easily with a modification to your .htaccess file.

No we can't because the images are published via CloudFlare.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 8:11 PM
jsauce - we stop it by telling him to stop; no comply? DMCA. He is even using some of the site buttons :P Or do VBulletin own those?

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 8:19 PM
This is rubbish. This is like saying Nikon own all photography made with their cameras, Adobe own all graphic design made with their tools, and IKEA own all books that were written while sitting on one of their chairs. :rolleyes:

So here is why its not the same.

Photographs and images made in Photoshop are original works because the image itself is derived from something that is not copyrighted, except if it is, and then Yes of course someone owns it. But having said that Camera manufacturers would have had a hell of a time selling cameras if they told every person who bought the camera that they owned any pictures they took, since they did not so this, that ship sailed long ago. In the law ignoring your rights is the same as admitting you do not have them. So even if they someone made a case today they would lose because the problem would be so impossible to fix by virtue of their own design.

Adobe is the same way, in their case they make software, now if you take their photoshop and make a plugin for it, and try to sell it without their permission then yes thats infringement, unless they have expressly stated this to the contrary. Adobe would also have a hell of a time selling photoshop if their contract stated that they also own any images that are used in concert with their software.

Now the reason this is different with the Sims is that its generally assumed and 99.9% of EULAs state this, that the software is licensed and any works derived from it belong to the original owner, i.e the developer of the software. This has always been the case, because of this they already have the law on their side. But further more, you are not generating anything new here. Everything you make uses something from the game itself. When you import code from their packages to recolor and save as new packages, do you someone think that the transition makes it yours? That its color changing makes it yours? So if I walk into Walmart with a can of spray paint I purchased and start spraying down the things I want, do they become mine by virtue of this change alone?

jsauce - we stop it by telling him to stop; no comply? DMCA. He is even using some of the site buttons :P Or do VBulletin own those?

I agree you can shoot off one of those DMCA notices to bluehost and they probably will just remove it because they are weak. I am personally no fan of the DMCA as it has done more harm than good, and I would never use or defend it.

LIke I said I have been in this position before and I know it sucks. But more power to you if you can get them to stop it. As for using site buttons, if they belong to VBulletin, yes they own them too. :)

But what is funny is that did this guy just duplicate your site? I mean who copies buttons and such, lazy greedy, people I guess. So yeah I'd be pissed too. I hope you can get them to remove the content I really do. But really doesn't everyone already know you can only find the best Sims stuff here already? Why would anyone need to go anywhere else? :)

No we can't because the images are published via CloudFlare.

CloudFlare has hotlink protection, you should check that out.

https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200170026-What-does-enabling-CloudFlare-Hotlink-Protection-do-

And just because I am sure that I am coming off as a jerk or something, I love this site, and its actually the only one I ever use for stuff.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 8:26 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png


So if I walk into Walmart with a can of spray paint I purchased and start spraying down the things I want, do they become mine by virtue of this change alone?

No creator has claimed that EA content now are belong to them just because they made a recolour (which would be the equivalent to your spray-painted Walmart sofa). As I have said about five times before?

But just because somehting is a derivative work does *not* mean that sims4forum or anyone else can just C+P it and plunk it on their site. All it means is that it now has more than one author who may be pissed off.

askurei
26th Sep 2014, 8:45 PM
But what is funny is that did this guy just duplicate your site? I mean who copies buttons and such, lazy greedy, people I guess. So yeah I'd be pissed too. I hope you can get them to remove the content I really do. But really doesn't everyone already know you can only find the best Sims stuff here already? Why would anyone need to go anywhere else? :)

sorry to butt in and might be off topic , not only he copied it, HE IS MAKING MONEY OUT OF IT, EA create a bucket, but the bucket full of hole, MTS patch the hole and making it more alive usable to use share and more fun for the whole world to use it FREELY ..... so a guy just took the bucket and sell it.... is it ok? NO.... its intend to be SHARE FREELY

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 8:48 PM
This is my real issue. The creators work hard to make things for the game and they choose to upload them here - or not. Any creator can remove their work at any time.

What this other site is doing, (and there is a thread I will link you to) is taking that work, reuploading it and using as content to populate his forum. When asked why he did not ask the creators he said that it would take too much time....... He also basically said (paraphrasing) that he found it easier to take work that was from elsewhere, especially here, as it was already checked.

I receive no money from the work I do on this site; nobody does. My reward is a red name, a custom title and the knowledge that by helping here OTHER people might have that OMG moment when the thing they made, however noobish, (my first object was VERY noobish) is in their game.

What is this Sims4orum guys reward? Making money from the work of other people WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT. That is why I am making a fuss.

http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 8:49 PM
sorry to butt in and might be off topic , not only he copied it, HE IS MAKING MONEY OUT OF IT, EA create a bucket, but the bucket full of hole, MTS patch the hole and making it more alive usable to use share and more fun for the whole world to use it FREELY ..... so a guy just took the bucket and sell it.... is it ok? NO.... its intend to be SHARE FREELY


Now see you are speaking my language my friend, on this I couldn't agree more and I guarantee EA doesn't give anyone the right to charge for mods and stuff, much like Blizzard and others I'm sure. Yeah I absolutely hate when people do that kind of thing. And I agree MTS is a phenomenal site that does amazing work and has turned an often times terrible game into something special.

It's because of sites like MTS that people continue to play the Sims, which in my opinion if we left everything just up to EA would be the most boring game ever made.

This is my real issue. The creators work hard to make things for the game and they choose to upload them here - or not. Any creator can remove their work at any time.

What this other site is doing, (and there is a thread I will link you to) is taking that work, reuploading it and using as content to populate his forum. When asked why he did not ask the creators he said that it would take too much time....... He also basically said (paraphrasing) that he found it easier to take work that was from elsewhere, especially here, as it was already checked.

I receive no money from the work I do on this site; nobody does. My reward is a red name, a custom title and the knowledge that by helping here OTHER people might have that OMG moment when the thing they made, however noobish, (my first object was VERY noobish) is in their game.

What is this Sims4orum guys reward? Making money from the work of other people WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT. That is why I am making a fuss.

http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=536080

You know I couldn't agree with you more there. I actually did see his site before and a few others and I just always assumed that everyone was just sharing all this stuff like a community because his site wasn't the first I've seen with the same stuff on it.

Is he linking to your downloads, or is he downloading everything to his site and providing the links there? The only reason I ask is that if he is hotlinking to your site, again this can easily be stopped. Stopping the latter would be more difficult, but I actually was thinking about this kind of thing before.

The way to stop it would be to do on-the-fly archiving per download with a password that is provided as you download it. That would mean someone downloading all the files would need to extract them all with different passwords or provides the different passwords to each file when someone downloads it. It's a hassle, but usually countering evil-doers always is.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 9:01 PM
I believe going via his IP is a lot more effective than that.

Regarding what exactly he is/has been doing, have you read the thread Lee linked to?

FifthAce2007
26th Sep 2014, 9:06 PM
Right, there seems to be a lot of confusion over who has rights to what etc.

1: When you re-colour anything from the Sims, you DON'T own the result.
2: You DO own the WORK that has gone into the result.
3: Since the bulk of the work involves digital imagery, that comes under the Digital Image Licencing laws. (Sorry I don't have source links)
4: Who ever it was that mentioned a photographer DOESNT own a photograph if they take one of something own by someone else is WRONG!
4a: I know two professional photographers that I have come to know through my business, plus additionally I have a personal friend who owns and operates a large chat site currenly white labled to Lycos Inc. and we have had discussions regarding photography and digital imaging in the past upon which I am basing these conclusions
4b: I own and run a business in Web & Graphics design so this IS something I know a little bit about ;)
5: With regards to a photograph: IF you take a photograph of anything that may belong to someone else, YOU and YOU alone OWN the full copyrights to that photograph. You don't own the subject matter, but you own the actual photograph, regardless of what it is of, and since it is impossible to seperate the subject of the photograph from the photograph itself, you have full control of what happens to that photograph. This is how, for example, the papperazzi are able to take photographs of celebrities and SELL then to a newspaper or magazine publisher WITHOUT getting sued by the celebrity.
6: Similar rules apply to the images used in the creation or recolouration of anything from the Sims. You don't own the result, but you DO own the work that goes into it, and unless you upload to the Sims Store, where they state you are giving up your rights to control what happens to it thereafter, you retain full control of where that resulting work is distributed.

End of Story.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 9:13 PM
Right, there seems to be a lot of confusion over who has rights to what etc.
4: Who ever it was that mentioned a photographer DOESNT own a photograph if they take one of something own by someone else is WRONG!
End of Story.

I don't think anyone was talking about that. I think someone said basically my argument meant that Nikon would own the rights to any photograph taken with one of their cameras, which we know they have no standing in argument.

mustluvcatz
26th Sep 2014, 9:22 PM
RE point #2 in FifthAce2007's post - "2: You DO own the WORK that has gone into the result.".

That's exactly what I believe. Most of my meshes are new, not just modified EA meshes -I start with a box or cylinder and go from there. So you better believe that mesh belongs to me. Which means I do have say over how it's used.

editing to add (because I somehow missed it): This too: "6: Similar rules apply to the images used in the creation or recolouration of anything from the Sims. You don't own the result, but you DO own the work that goes into it, and unless you upload to the Sims Store, where they state you are giving up your rights to control what happens to it thereafter, you retain full control of where that resulting work is distributed."

That goes along with what I've already said in that other thread. The TS4 EULA states "through the software". That's open to interpretation obviously. My interpretation of through the software is- uploading to the Gallery, the official site or any other EA-provided means of sharing your content. So I believe that as long as you don't share your content through ANY EA provided means, you own your work. You don't own the resulting PACKAGE no matter what.

Which means (to me): If I upload something here, I have every right to say what can and can not be done with it. My WORK is in the package...

FifthAce2007
26th Sep 2014, 9:35 PM
RE point #2 in FifthAce2007's post - "2: You DO own the WORK that has gone into the result.".

That's exactly what I believe. Most of my meshes are new, not just modified EA meshes -I start with a box or cylinder and go from there. So you better believe that mesh belongs to me. Which means I do have say over how it's used.

That raises another good point. Putting the Sims aside , when it comes to the use of a 3D modeling program. As you say, you start with a box or cylinder, which the program itself creates...people's argument that EA retain ownership of everything means that anything anyone makes in a 3D program is owned by the publisher of that program.

We all know that not to be the case.

BlazinFast2k
26th Sep 2014, 9:47 PM
I've been a member over on Sims4Forum since earlier this year, never been all that into sims custom content until TS4 came out. I was going to stay out of it, but I can't.

If he's making money off other peoples work, I can't seem to see it to be fair.... all the mods there are free to access. I've been on there for a few months. Someone actually suggested to him that he adds custom content to bring in members for his forum and bring over some mods from other sites as long as he or the members gave credit to the real owners. And as far as I know the VIP subscription thing was there well before he started adding custom content... I don't think it has anything or very little to do with the content there or that he's uploading mods for profit sake, can you prove he's making bucketfuls of money from "other peoples work" you probably cant. You are just throwing around accusations.

He probably knows he's made a mistake... but I doubt he did it to piss anyone off here. I only found modthesims because of one of the mods he uploaded there gave credit to MTS so I came here to check the place out.

All I am saying I guess is there's 2 sides to every story and everyone here is attacking him, saying he's stealing other peoples work, making money off them and whatnot and in the other thread posting his address etc. People have taken it too far.

I've shared stuff online for a while, downloadable files and mods on sites I have found elsewhere. It's called sharing... and as long as you credit the creators of the originals and link back to their site/work i've never had an issue before with anyone...

You're all plotting a witchhunt on someone who was only trying to build up his site/community. If he'd taken credit for all the work and passed it off as his own i'd be just as mad as everyone else, but the fact is he didn't.

As for copyright, I'd probably agree with jsauce... but as he didn't take credit for the work I don't know why everyone is pursuing this.

Either way... thought i'd say my piece. Ultimately the authors have their right to say what/where their mod is shared.... but if it was my mod that was being shared and credit given i'd be over the moon!

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 9:48 PM
I've been a member over on Sims4Forum since earlier this year

LOL. Just "a member", yes?



How about this post (http://modthesims.info/m/showpost.php?p=4545436&postcount=27), then?


Hey everyone, I am the owner of S4F. Can I clear everything up.

We are not stealing peoples content [yadda yadda yadda]


That was not even 24 hours ago :rolleyes:


--


Full quote of the post (above) they deleted, Deleted posts restored for everyone's amusement and because content should be shared freely .

BlazinFast2k
26th Sep 2014, 9:52 PM
I don't know anyone on this site really but I know the owner/staff over there and they are friendly enough and have always been kind to me. I can't see them having done this to be money grabbing assholes.... they were just trying to kickstart their site a bit.

But lol... I would be scared to file a DMCA.... it says in it that you have to swear under penalty of perjury that what your filing is correct/true and that you are the copyright owner under US law. As noeone here seems to have a clear idea of whether you own the copyrights or not, filing a DMCA complain and being found out you aren't infact the copyright owner and that EA is.... their host or anyone for that matter could turn around and counter sue... and if you're found out not to be the copyright owner you're in hot water. :S

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 9:54 PM
That raises another good point. Putting the Sims aside , when it comes to the use of a 3D modeling program. As you say, you start with a box or cylinder, which the program itself creates...people's argument that EA retain ownership of everything means that anything anyone makes in a 3D program is owned by the publisher of that program.

We all know that not to be the case.

I would think this is true if their contract expressed that. But again how long would they be in business if they did. It's a different story with something like the Sims, if no one ever made anything extra for it, it would still sell as EA's work. You guys are really splitting hairs on the "I own it because I did all the work" on something that is already owned. I can understand where you are coming from, frankly I think intellectual property in general is a crock of S*** but to each his own.

We all know if EA wanted to they could shut every one of these sites down and claim the same thing you guys are trying to claim. Tossing the word DMCA around. They don't because it would harm their brand, and they are making money off the original product which is important to them.

I think if you could take the original work as a primer, derive something entirely new and separate it from the game for some other purpose, you would still have a hard time if EA ever bitched and moaned. You'd have a better argument, but really when you build something for the game based on content that was originally derived from within the game, that argument loses much of its steam. Yes, you did a lot of work to improve on something, but in the end unless you could prove that your work was so different or altering in so much as the original work bore no resemblance, you are always going to have a problem. And you can blame that on congress and all the copyright goons who write laws, not with the intent to protect work but to stifle innovation.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 9:55 PM
I don't know anyone on this site really but I know the owner/staff over there and they are friendly enough and have always been kind to me. I can't see them having done this to be money grabbing assholes.... they were just trying to kickstart their site a bit.

But lol... I would be scared to file a DMCA.... it says in it that you have to swear under penalty of perjury that what your filing is correct/true and that you are the copyright owner under US law. As noeone here seems to have a clear idea of whether you own the copyrights or not, filing a DMCA complain and being found out you aren't infact the copyright owner and that EA is.... their host or anyone for that matter your DMCA could turn around and counter sue... and if you're found out not to be the copyright owner you're in hot water. :S

Before you dig yourself into an even deeper hole .. care to explain? :D See post above yours.

BlazinFast2k
26th Sep 2014, 9:58 PM
Before you dig yourself into an even deeper hole .. care to explain? :D See post above yours.

lol plastic hmph fine, you caught me out :p but you did ban me yesterday preventing me from explaining my side of the story.

As for everything I said, it's true... I figured if you heard it from someone else you'd understand more. I didn't appreciate you banning me, and continuing to spin a web of misinformation making me look bad and dragging mine and my sites reputation through the dirt.

I explained (okay yes in 3rd person) but I explained why I did what I did. And that I had no secret motive to profit from it all like you are all suggesting.

jsauce
26th Sep 2014, 10:01 PM
Before you dig yourself into an even deeper hole .. care to explain? :D See post above yours.

That guy was an idiot. Did you guys ban him? As soon as I read the whole, "I don't know about filing a DMCA claim because it could be dangerous..."

I was going to reply and say, people file those things all the damn time. Google took statistics from their Youtube DMCA claims for a full year and determined that over 70% of them were entirely false claims, and no one ever gets in trouble for it, which is why its so freely abused. I personally think it should cost money and there should be a real penalty if someone abuses it, and to counter the cost, if the person is found in violation, then the company who did the takedown should send the cost to the person who violated it.

But seriously coming here and saying something stupid like that, which I interpret as a threat...

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 10:02 PM
I had no secret motive to profit from it all like you are all suggesting.

No, you have a very obvious motive. It's plastered all over your site.

Helianthea
26th Sep 2014, 10:09 PM
Wow. And here I always thought the biggest dramaqueens could only be found in MMO-forums O_o

In the old thread, you've pretended you totally didn't know about the consequences of what you did and that you totally don't plan to gain money with it – once people call you out on your BS you start blabbering about how their content really belongs to EA (by the by, sweetheart, do you really think EA would appreciate you making money with "their" content?) – next, you tell us to post TOUs on our sites because you're lazy and lack the common decency to ask for permission – and now you attempt that ridiculous "I'm not the dude, I'm a friend / user / member"-crap that doesn't even work in bad sitcoms?
Seriously dude, do you know no shame?

s4forum
26th Sep 2014, 10:35 PM
my last message.... I will not register again... I am done trying to explain myself.


Look, I don't appreciate you all sitting there with your assumptions TELLING people and telling ME what MY intentions were. I know the majority of you are genuinely concerned and are listening to other assumptions and automatically assuming they are correct.

I explained my intentions, that I didn't mean to "steal" peoples work, I CERTAINLY didn't intend to profit off it. And I couldn't sit back as you all make your assumptions and dictate what I was thinking and doing when I uploaded the files. I did so to try and boost my forum and encourage a small community of creators on my site to start sharing their own work... I want my forum to grow and be successful. I will paste part of my email here that I sent to one of your members here explaining my side of the story.... and what I am saying, I am saying because it's true.

If all of what you say about me sneakily trying to profit from everyones work is true, do you seriously think i'd go to so much effort to defend myself... i'd just ignore you all. There's one thing I can't stand, and it's people speaking for me, telling lies about what my intentions were, why I was doing them and what I wanted to gain. I will not sit back and let you guys spin this huge web of misinformation, making me out to be some criminal thief who's out to make money off everyone elses work and shamelessly copy and take credit for it.

Anyways here's my email:

Of course, we are a new site (as far as Sims 4 custom content goes, we’ve been a forum for over a year) and it’s hard to just magic up a community of content creators to fill our little custom content area for our members. Not all of which use mod the sims or have used custom content in the past.

I do want our site to be a success, and build a community…. especially partly around custom content as it’s a popular thing… so I felt like I had to start adding custom content to our site, but didn’t want to redirect people to whats essentially a competitor site that’s considerably larger than us… and have them register there. At the same time I didn’t want to sneakily go around and ask creators there to come join our site or share their content on our site… so as not to disrespect MTS.

So I brought over some mods from there to fill out our downloads area, giving the appropriate credit to the author and where the author had it hosted beforehand. I have never claimed to have created any of the content I bring over, my intention is just to share it and build our community.

The VIP paid membership thing on our site existed long before we even started uploading custom content…. the VIP subscriptions were there so we could pay for scripts/upgrades to our forum software, host competitions/giveaways and in general use the money to make our site bigger, better and more popular. Our subscription gives members loads of perks around the site, it’s only in the last week I thought we might as well make VIP members happier by giving them an extra little bonus of downloading more and faster… because if the option to do so is there, why not add it to the list of perks for VIP’s.

As of a few days ago, we actually removed the time limit between downloads… I’ve just been too lazy to update that notice on the page to reflect that.

So please don’t get the impression that we cooked up the paid subscription idea and intentionally tied it into our custom content area PURELY to try and make money from it… that was NOT my intention. As I said our subscription has been around long before we started with custom content, and I felt it’d be wrong not to give our VIP members some kind of benefit when downloading custom content from our site as well as the many other perks they get.

But yeah as it stands, anyone can register on our site, and download as many mods/skins as they want and as often as they want… just like on ModTheSims. :) the only things we charged for besides VIP were nude skins… which came about when our site started getting flooded with nude/adult skins and content… so what I did was make an adult section and now our creators that upload nude content to our site have to set a price on anything they want to upload… which has worked well we’ve put a halt to them for the most part… and the benefit is, all the money we get I can invest into the site.

All this drama on MTS came about when someone originally came on and said we were “stealing their mods” and charging for them when actually we weren’t. It went viral and now our reputation has been dragged through the mud :( as people assume what I have done, I have done to try and make money for my own greedy reasons which isn’t true. I was just trying to fill out our custom content area so we had something to start from… to encourage others to upload here.

Anyhow ****** , i’ll wrap it up at that. I’ve not really had a chance to defend myself or explain my side of the story… and the times I have tried I have been ridiculed and attacked… to the point where i’ve had my name and address posted on the internet and reported to authorities and stuff.

leefish
26th Sep 2014, 10:38 PM
Hi Sims4orum - before I ban you - see this as my official request to stop hotlinking the images from this site :)

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 10:42 PM
@s4forum -- instead of blathering on and on, how about you actually take down the content you C+Pd from elsewhere?

If Bluehost are doing their job, chances are your site won't last much longer if you don't.

ChinchillaJesus
26th Sep 2014, 11:15 PM
@s4forum I can honestly say I'll as happy as a pig in shit when your website is removed.

Helianthea
26th Sep 2014, 11:36 PM
The VIP paid membership thing on our site existed long before we even started uploading custom content…. [...] Our subscription gives members loads of perks around the site, it’s only in the last week I thought we might as well make VIP members happier by giving them an extra little bonus of downloading more and faster… because if the option to do so is there, why not add it to the list of perks for VIP’s.
Not to rain on your parade, but that big, fat banner of yours advertises, in order:
- UNLIMITED downloads,
- access to ALL THE THINGS,
- NO DELAY between downloads,
and only then does it talk about the missing ads, the blogs and the „other benefits“.
So obviously, you put a bigger emphasis on certain perks, which in this case is „downloading“. That's your premise. That's how you get people to pay those "starting at" 4,99.
It's also shady as fuck if you ask me.

And sure, there is a little banner over that banner where you state only adult content must be paid for, but it's, like, really small, and not all that easy to spot with that giant violet thing right below it. Your gaze easily brushes over it without noticing the information contained. Very smart approach. If it weren't so disgusting, I'd actually tip my non-existant hat to you.

This does take the price though:
As of a few days ago, we actually removed the time limit between downloads… I’ve just been too lazy to update that notice on the page to reflect that.

plasticbox
26th Sep 2014, 11:54 PM
I still think the best part is the hilarious contrast between the actual site with all those d/ls marked as "18+" (or "sourced" from elsewhere by the owner) and its own terms of use. The site's, not the provider's. Which explicitly prohibit "adult content" and anything that "risks copyright infringement".

@Helianthea , have you asked for removal actually? Got any reply?

Helianthea
27th Sep 2014, 12:09 AM
Yeah, I read that too :lol: I'm actually ashamed for being so amused by it, because it really isn't a joking matter, but well, if life hands you lemons ...

I wrote him an email and also contacted the hosting site, though that was only 4 hours ago (hadn't read about it 'til then and wasn't online either, so I'm admittedly late to join the party ...), so I'm not (yet) too iffy about not having received a reply / having my content removed from Sims4Forum.

leefish
27th Sep 2014, 2:03 AM
Ok, lets all just ease up. The purpose of this thread is to tell the creators that their work is "being shared freely" without their consent and what they can do about it. If the creators don't care, its not my role to make them care. Its your content, you decide what happens to it.

If you want to have a say over where your content is shared then the FIRST thing you should do is contact the site and ask them to remove the content, or whatever it is you want to have happen with what is yours.

If the site owner refuses to do that THEN (and only then) should you contact their host and complain about copyright infringement.

Despite all the things said to the contrary in this thread, the creator IS the copyright owner of their work. You made the pictures and wrote the text and instructions; that is your work.

JDacapo
27th Sep 2014, 3:42 AM
Wow. I really hope this dude takes off the unauthorized content. It's wrong to post other peoples' creations without their permission... well... a certain site is an exception, but their targets are paysites.

melbrewer367
27th Sep 2014, 8:13 AM
Wow. I literally just started creating stuff so I obviously haven't had anything taken but I've been following along and I just clicked a link on tumblr that took me to their site. My goodness. The very first post in the Recent Threads section on the main forums page is "Download And Install The sims 4 Cracked On PC For FREE Full Game" and it's been on there since 5am! No doubt, someone in their community posted it, but how is it still on there almost 24 hours later?

And, side note, their membership is $6.99(US$)!!! TSR has been around forever and they only charge $3.50 a month and they have that cart you can put 100+ things in and download all at once. What's this guy give you? Sim weiners and your own blog! Whoooo! What a joke.

JDacapo
27th Sep 2014, 12:03 PM
What the hell. This guy is trying to take our money while stealing stuff from people who worked HARD at creating stuff to make Sims 2 better. That is just flippin' pathetic and sad.

Kent_Bari
27th Sep 2014, 12:49 PM
What the hell. This guy is trying to take our money while stealing stuff from people who worked HARD at creating stuff to make Sims 2 better. That is just flippin' pathetic and sad.


You wanna know what I think is the true definition of sad? Is the fact that i was a member on that site awhile ago to get TS2 content before coming here. I noticed that some of the stuff there was stolen from other Sims modding sites and he says he made them himself when i searched for those same CC, I found the exact same thing on another site that had the original creators name and images to go along with it. And going on with my head-first blunt personality, I got pissed off that this guy has no talent whatsoever and ranted at him. The most immature and childish thing he did next was deleted all my posts that i ever made, insulted me like an 9 year old, then (I don't even know if you can do this next part to anyone on any site) proclaims i'm IP banned from accessing his site. That was truly a slap to my face and a sign this guy is a true keyboard warrior when it comes to sitting infront of a computer.

:|

FifthAce2007
27th Sep 2014, 1:11 PM
As a site administrator on a forum, or any website you have control panel access to, you can ban individual IP addresses or an entire range of an IP address. Certain websites are able to ban the individual machine ID within a given IP address as well.

Helianthea
27th Sep 2014, 1:25 PM
@FifthAce2007: hope you don't mind me asking, but yours and volvenoms stuff are the only ones that appear to be completely deleted at the time of writing; and since I get an error message and a „you must be logged in to do this“ message when I access the sites (where your content used to be hosted at, just to clarify) I'm curious about this:
Do you know whether the content has ACTUALLY been removed in its entirety?

plasticbox
27th Sep 2014, 3:29 PM
Do you know whether the content has ACTUALLY been removed in its entirety?

You wouldn't have a handle on someone just storing files on a server -- if the files are inaccessible he's not publishing them.

Except if you mean they might still be accessible for "VIP members"? Somebody at Loverslab seems to have a VIP account (apparently some of the nekkid skins are C+P too), maybe ask there.

FifthAce2007
27th Sep 2014, 4:07 PM
@FifthAce2007: hope you don't mind me asking, but yours and volvenoms stuff are the only ones that appear to be completely deleted at the time of writing; and since I get an error message and a „you must be logged in to do this“ message when I access the sites (where your content used to be hosted at, just to clarify) I'm curious about this:
Do you know whether the content has ACTUALLY been removed in its entirety?

Well....I don't I guess. I revisted the site and checked where it used to be and it's no longer there, I visited "chris" profile, and looked through his submissions and it wasn't there either.

I don't think it's a cloaking type of thing as I never registered I just visited the site so he would have no idea of what my IP address is. I guess it's possible he moved it to a registered user area or premium access I suppose...but without registering/subscribing I'll have no way of knowing :rolleyes:

Johnny_Bravo
27th Sep 2014, 4:56 PM
From now on I'll just put 'JohnnyBravo©' in some corner of every picture I take of my ceations.

FifthAce2007
27th Sep 2014, 5:02 PM
From now on I'll just put 'JohnnyBravo©' in some corner of every picture I take of my ceations.

Yeh think I may do the same...well not JohnnyBravo© obviously :rofl:

plasticbox
27th Sep 2014, 5:04 PM
Won't help against this kind of abuse though.

Johnny_Bravo
27th Sep 2014, 5:34 PM
If they're too stupid and use the same pictures, it got my 'watermark' on it.

FifthAce2007
27th Sep 2014, 5:45 PM
Won't help against this kind of abuse though.

No, but it would help against any threat of legal action by anyone involved...or perhaps adding a MTS Exclusive watermark to the images? (Might have more weight behind it)

Sure, it wouldn't stop theft of the package file itself, but if he has to actually go into the game and get his own images and host them on his own server....more work, maybe give them pause...

leefish
27th Sep 2014, 5:46 PM
It all depends what you want; if you only want credit for the work you have done, and you don't want to go on the route of complaining and a DMCA - writing your name on your pictures will probably work. Maybe. If you don't want sites posting your work without your consent in order to boost the attractiveness of their sites offering (and thereby encourage paid subscriptions) then having your name on the pictures is NOT going to stop them.

It all depends on what you are happy with.

Helianthea
27th Sep 2014, 6:00 PM
You wouldn't have a handle on someone just storing files on a server -- if the files are inaccessible he's not publishing them.

Except if you mean they might still be accessible for "VIP members"? Somebody at Loverslab seems to have a VIP account (apparently some of the nekkid skins are C+P too), maybe ask there.
Thanks for clearing that up. And yes, that's what I was concerned about.
I absolutely don't feel comfortable asking over at LoversLab atm though, seeing as my own content still hasn't been deleted and "asking on behalf of somebody else" would be a real douchy self-proclaimed white knight thing to do.

Well....I don't I guess. I revisted the site and checked where it used to be and it's no longer there, I visited "chris" profile, and looked through his submissions and it wasn't there either.

I don't think it's a cloaking type of thing as I never registered I just visited the site so he would have no idea of what my IP address is. I guess it's possible he moved it to a registered user area or premium access I suppose...but without registering/subscribing I'll have no way of knowing :rolleyes:
Thank you.
Apologies if the question came off as offending, that wasn't my intention at all. Should've phrased it better.

plasticbox
27th Sep 2014, 6:07 PM
I absolutely don't feel comfortable asking over at LoversLab atm though, seeing as my own content still hasn't been deleted and "asking on behalf of somebody else" would be a real douchy self-proclaimed white knight thing to do.

Hm? There must be a misunderstanding somewhere =) I only meant that when in doubt whether something really got removed or is now behind a paywall, asking someone who has payzone access whether the content is still online would be a way to find out for sure. Not that someone else should (or even could) take action on your behalf.

But of course, when you're still within that 48-hour "grace period" for removing stuff, it wouldn't mean anything right now.

Helianthea
27th Sep 2014, 6:19 PM
Yup, my bad, I misread that part.
Thanks for letting me know about this, I'll keep it in mind.

JDacapo
27th Sep 2014, 7:21 PM
Naked kid skins are CP? They're cartoony people. Why can't people these days distinguish between cartoon children and real children? I think the paedo-hunts may be sexualizing children more than anything else could.

melbrewer367
27th Sep 2014, 7:30 PM
I sent a message on Facebook to the Sims page with a link to the forum letting them know about the cracked version they had up for download. They messaged me back earlier saying, "Thanks for bringing this to our attention." Wonder what will happen next.

plasticbox
27th Sep 2014, 7:33 PM
Naked kid skins are CP? They're cartoony people. Why can't people these days distinguish between cartoon children and real children? I think the paedo-hunts may be sexualizing children more than anything else could.

I don't know what you think when you see the abbreviation "C+P" .. for me that means "Copy and Paste". ;)

Volvenom
27th Sep 2014, 8:48 PM
My lot seems to be gone, good.

To the threaths and my claim not being legit. I delivered a complaint, because I KNOW I made that house, I took the pictures, made the description and posted it around the interenet. If my claim is legit though, I'm not a lawyer, if my claim is right according to law will have to be up to the court to decide. Since I'm not from the US though it might be both expensive and unclear, and I suspect to Bluehost just a bunch of trouble with very little outcome.

plasticbox
27th Sep 2014, 9:25 PM
To the threats and my claim not being legit. I delivered a complaint, because I KNOW I made that house, I took the pictures, made the description and posted it around the interenet. If my claim is legit though, I'm not a lawyer, if my claim is right according to law will have to be up to the court to decide. Since I'm not from the US though it might be both expensive and unclear, and I suspect to Bluehost just a bunch of trouble with very little outcome.

What threats? How "not being legit"? :blink: If they removed it that means they complied .. normally, that would be the end of it.

Or did they somehow insist it's actually theirs?

Volvenom
27th Sep 2014, 9:38 PM
What threats? How "not being legit"? :blink: If they removed it that means they complied .. normally, that would be the end of it.

Or did they somehow insist it's actually theirs?

I'm just building a case here :) Fake claims has to be people making fake claims, my claim isn't fake because I made the house and I can prove it. If it's right according to the law have to be up to the court to decide. But yes since Bluehost told him to remove it, it can't be that wrong.

It was late last night obviously. I just got a bit confused about all this legal discussion, should I really think about that? That's for lawyers to decide or what? I was a bit worried my claim was fake, but of cause fake claims must be from people who have no right to the content, like those taking down Luna's mediafire account.

RomerJon17
28th Sep 2014, 11:06 AM
Anyone read term and conditions? Why would Sims4forums steal all the stuff from ModTheSims? That's so illegal!
Does the site owner know about this problem?
--------

Chicken0895
28th Sep 2014, 11:41 AM
I'm sure this is a legal requirement, but would we really have to include a phone number and address with the notice? It's not like our addresses are going to be a bunch of corporate headquarters with a ton of state-of-the-art security. I don't have any Sims 4 content, but if I did and it was on there, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable sending my phone number and address to someone I don't know, especially over the internet.

Inge Jones
28th Sep 2014, 1:21 PM
I'm sure this is a legal requirement, but would we really have to include a phone number and address with the notice? It's not like our addresses are going to be a bunch of corporate headquarters with a ton of state-of-the-art security. I don't have any Sims 4 content, but if I did and it was on there, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable sending my phone number and address to someone I don't know, especially over the internet.

It's a company. Don't you do online shopping?

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 2:45 PM
It's not like our addresses are going to be a bunch of corporate headquarters with a ton of state-of-the-art security

Dunno what "bunch of corporate headquarters" you expect, but Bluehost are a completely normal web host. There's nothing unusual about them. What they're asking for -- providing a means to get in touch with you -- is likely a lot less data than your own IP has about you.

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 3:26 PM
He does give credit to whoever made them at the bottom of the posts/threads.
The only paid content is 18+ content, to ensure it stays 18+.
The rest of the content is FREE. He is NOT making money off your mods!

I'm not saying what he's done is right, but there have been reasons.

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 4:00 PM
Nobody needs to sell adult content "just to make sure it's 18+", that's just one of the bullshit justifications he's feeding to his members (you are one of them, correct?). Would there be so many free adult CC sites otherwise? :rolleyes: I would recommend a Google search.

Also *his* reasons are completely irrelevant here. It's the creators' decision what happens with their content.

askurei
28th Sep 2014, 4:08 PM
He does give credit to whoever made them at the bottom of the posts/threads.
The only paid content is 18+ content, to ensure it stays 18+.
The rest of the content is FREE. He is NOT making money off your mods!

I'm not saying what he's done is right, but there have been reasons.

nahh, my creation is not even in the website but, i do feel not good when my creation on a paysite, that have a lot of advertising all over it, so technically every content on that website give money to him either by membership or not as long as its in his website, its just my opinion tho

mustluvcatz
28th Sep 2014, 4:28 PM
Meline - it doesn't matter if everything besides the 18+ content is free or not. Besides what plasticbox said about it being the creator's decision what happens with their content, there's the fact that it seems like he was using the content from here (and other places like tumblr) to build up a downloads area and "lure people in".

askurei - Um, MTS has ads. Then again, MTS doesn't ask people to pay to be members to download anything and offer them "perks" for doing so. :)

askurei
28th Sep 2014, 4:38 PM
MTS do have ads but not much, only the download pages and front pages, one flash ads, i can't seem to find something sticking to my eye all the time, and can't seem to find any banner tho.... will keep looking :rolleyes:

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 4:41 PM
I'm really not attempting to defend him, and I understand you guys completely and IMO you have every right to be upset (and ask him to take it down).
I was only saying that because I read a post somewhere in this thread that said he was making people pay for all the mods that were posted on the site.
That is not the case.
Most forums have some sort of membership available for purchase to help keep the site up.
Reading through this thread I saw a lot of people writing him off as some asshole who was trying to make money off other peoples creations, I just felt I had to say that's not at all what he's been doing.

mustluvcatz - You are very right in saying that it was used to 'lure people in', at least, that's what I assume to main purpose was. But also to offer the members who frequent there the possibility of uploading it on it's own site. Was that right? No, it really isn't.
He did give credit to those who created it, but if you ask me he should've provided a link to the direct download (and the original place it was uploaded) instead of hosting it himself.

From what I've gathered though, he is going to stop this immediately. Though I've not spoken to him directly, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. It is but my interpretation of things. :)

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 4:51 PM
I read a post somewhere in this thread that said he was making people pay for all the mods that were posted on the site.

Citation needed.

As far as I'm aware, nobody in this thread claimed he was charging for their downloads.

The main issues seem to be that he copied site content, downloads, and is hotlinking without permission, that he failed to give credit in many cases (he added that in over time, but there are still downloads completely uncredited -- see here (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/) for example), that he even refused to remove files when asked to (see here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4546917#post4546917)), that he posted here with a sockpuppet account (see here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4548208#post4548208)) trying to scare people away from filing a DMCA and that by now he still hasn't removed any site content except for where the creators filed a DMCA right away. With "site content" I mean entire pages that are blatantly copied and pasted from mts, including pictures and hotlinks and all (maybe also from other sites, can't tell since I'm less familiar with those). All the while he is still trying to bullshit his own members (http://sims4forum.com/threads/not-good.2083/) into believing that *we* have an issue with "competition", when the whole issue isn't about competition but about blatant plagiarism and complete disregard of the actual creators.

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 4:54 PM
Citation needed.

As far as I'm aware, nobody in this thread claimed he was charging for their downloads.

I think that is what I personally understood was meant by this (posted on the homepage) :

"Additionally, the site is monetized allowing the forum owner to profit from these works that have been stolen from around the web and hosted without permission."

Along with some other money-based allegations here and there I overgeneralized. Apologies.

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 5:06 PM
Is OK. I hope everybody knows to make a difference between the site owner and people like you who are just members.

Also, I edited while you posted (above).

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 5:21 PM
The main issues seem to be that he copied site content, downloads, and is hotlinking without permission, that he failed to give credit in many cases (he added that in over time, but there are still downloads completely uncredited -- see here (http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/) for example), that he even refused to remove files when asked to (see here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4546917#post4546917)), that he posted here with a sockpuppet account (see here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4548208#post4548208)) trying to scare people away from filing a DMCA and that by now he still hasn't removed any site content except for where the creators filed a DMCA right away. With "site content" I mean entire pages that are blatantly copied and pasted from mts, including pictures and hotlinks and all (maybe also from other sites, can't tell since I'm less familiar with those). All the while he is still trying to bullshit his own members (http://sims4forum.com/threads/not-good.2083/) into believing that *we* have an issue with "competition", when the whole issue isn't about competition but about blatant plagiarism and complete disregard of the actual creators.

I really can't defend him on anything he's done in regards to this particular mess.
We don't speak nearly enough for me to be really in the know-how of what's going on, I wish I did, and that I could be of any help >.<
I just wanted to voice my pov on it, and I really hope he sorts it out soon.

FifthAce2007
28th Sep 2014, 5:48 PM
He does give credit to whoever made them at the bottom of the posts/threads.
The only paid content is 18+ content, to ensure it stays 18+.
The rest of the content is FREE. He is NOT making money off your mods!

I'm not saying what he's done is right, but there have been reasons.

Doesn't matter if he is making money off them or not, he is redistributing them without the authors consent. Crediting the original author/source website doesn't make it right, or legal ;)

Helianthea
28th Sep 2014, 5:54 PM
Honestly? I can't fathom anyone jumping to this guys defense.
He is NOT the victim with good intentions he claims to be. Anyone who thinks he is should do themselves a favor, google him, and have their minds blown.
Meline, did I understand correctly you're a registered member on his site? Because in that case you may or may not have been around for his little "giveaway" and how that ended up. If not, I advise you search for it (its on his own forums) and decide for yourself what to think about it. I can only tell you it made my stomach turn. And that is one story. Of many.

And surprise surprise, my content is STILL on sims4forums. Why am I not surprised? One more hour to go ...

Vampire_aninyosaloh
28th Sep 2014, 6:05 PM
Just found this on S4F:

If there is one thing to take note of from this whole situation, it's that MTS is obviously threatened by this website's success, or they would not have exaggerated the facts behind what actually happened.

I think the Sims CC community and particulary the bigger and older sites are feeling slightly threatened so they are only promoting these lies and stoking the fire to try and discredit us and make us look bad.

Lies? Seriously? And how on earth can we be threatened by a site that doesn't post their own stuff? The two sites are completely different things

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 6:14 PM
LOL @ those posts. We can't even be "threatened" by any site that does post their own stuff, because I sincerely hope that nobody here believes in any of that "competition" nonsense in the first place. :rolleyes: otherwise, how come that so many creators and staff members are running their own sites, blogs and simblrs alongside? Do they all compete with .. themselves?

HugeLunatic
28th Sep 2014, 6:32 PM
Competition from other sites is beneficial. It encourages and inspires other creators. :)

IrishA03
28th Sep 2014, 6:37 PM
Ugh, I'm reading over this post from TheSims4Forum (http://sims4forum.com/threads/not-good.2083/#post-22911) and...Ugh. Just because you give them half arsed credits doesn't mean that it's okay to post other people's creations! And to view the spoiler, you have to login or register. What.

What I don't like is the way that the members are twisting MTS members' words around. People here said that they didn't like the way there was a membership, but the people over there are saying that we claimed that you had to pay for everything! Preposterous.

Oh, and we're a third party website. Like they're not.

Does anyone know what that spoiler I mentioned says?

ETA: Um, that came off as more aggressive than I hoped. Whoops :faceslap:

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 6:44 PM
He seems to rely on his own members being incapable of using Google :)

zigersimmer
28th Sep 2014, 6:53 PM
I really can't defend him on anything he's done in regards to this particular mess.
We don't speak nearly enough for me to be really in the know-how of what's going on, I wish I did, and that I could be of any help >.<
I just wanted to voice my pov on it, and I really hope he sorts it out soon.
You are a moderator on that asshole forum, so your opinion is not objective.

mod edit: No reason to be rude. :)

Volvenom
28th Sep 2014, 7:01 PM
As the people dealing with commertials say, "all publicity is good publicity", deliver your dmca and get over it I say. Don't give him/her higher rating.

Helianthea
28th Sep 2014, 7:35 PM
@ plasticbox: I'd wager it's more that he trusts they believe his little act (which, I have to admit, is not half bad. Everybody sympathizes with the guy who claims to have been curb stomped) - which they do. Can't even blame them. I'm a trusting person by nature, myself - I've only had the doubtful privilege of having learned my lesson early on and fast :)

As to the "MTS is obviously feeling threatened" crap ... :rofl:

Aaand DMCA is out.

IrishA03
28th Sep 2014, 7:42 PM
Ughhh I posted saying that it wasn't fair to copy the mods and stuff, blah blah blah and now a VIP contacted me thinking I was a creator from MTS and saying that they could Take down my content and apologizing. Ugh, this is embarrassing. Worst still, he was really polite and civil about it. Ugh, how am I supposed to say that I'm not a creator. So embarrassing

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 8:01 PM
You are a moderator on that asshole forum, so your opinion is not objective.

mod edit: No reason to be rude. :)

The fact that one of the moderators is actually siding with you on this could be used to your benefit.
Just because I mod for a site, does not mean I follow blindly when a mistake is made.


If the moderators here could help me out with this, we could get this whole thing over pretty quickly:
Anyone whose mods are still public on Sims4Forum, please send me a message telling me which one it is and link me to your post of it on MTS.
I am still awaiting reply from Chris on how he wants to deal with all of this, but in the meantime the very least I could do is remove the posts from public view.
And before anyone misunderstands what I just said; As a moderator I can soft delete, not hard delete. It will however disable them from being downloaded, and members won't be able to see them (only moderators).

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 8:23 PM
That sounds very constructive, Meline. Thanks for your initiative!

What can we (moderators) do to help you out with? We can't speak in the name of the creators. Basically just look at the uploads "by Chris" over on your site (I'm not aware that anybody else has copied from here), search for the creator names on mts and PM the creators. You can also tag them in forums by going @plasticbox <-- with no punctuation immediately after! since the username isn't "plasticbox," to get their attention.

The uncredited upload I linked to before is by Shimrod101, here: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=535110
Copy: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/ -- should be removed anyway as it's outdated.

What I would do if I were you is actually: FIRST soft delete everything that wasn't uploaded by its original creator, THEN make the rounds and ask for permission. Same goes for your payzone section actually -- you may know there are allegiations that there's copy-pasted content there too. This does not concern any of the uploads on mts (and cannot be discussed here in detail, because pics), but it may be the same creators.


The other issue is hotlinking, that is something you might want to talk about with one of the admins (Leefish, Delphy, HugeLunatic). This concerns the site, not the creators.

IrishA03
28th Sep 2014, 8:27 PM
You should talk about deleting everything- people would be much happier and more people might visit the site without joining up just to fling hate at everyone. Not trying to make accusations.

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 8:35 PM
That sounds very constructive, Meline. Thanks for your initiative!

What can we (moderators) do to help you out with? We can't speak in the name of the creators. Basically just look at the uploads "by Chris" over on your site (I'm not aware that anybody else has copied from here), search for the creator names on mts and PM the creators. You can also tag them in forums by going @plasticbox <-- with no punctuation immediately after! since the username isn't "plasticbox," to get their attention.

The uncredited upload I linked to before is by Shimrod101, here: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=535110
Copy: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/ -- should be removed anyway as it's outdated.

What I would do if I were you is actually: FIRST soft delete everything that wasn't uploaded by its original creator, THEN make the rounds and ask for permission. Same goes for your payzone section actually -- you may know there are allegiations that there's copy-pasted content there too. This does not concern any of the uploads on mts (and cannot be discussed here in detail, because pics), but it may be the same creators.


The other issue is hotlinking, that is something you might want to talk about with one of the admins (Leefish, Delphy, HugeLunatic). This concerns the site, not the creators.

I have removed the one you just linked.
I'd rather not go and delete all of the mods, because I do not know if there are agreements or creations that are actually his own.
Technically I am already stepping out of my role (which makes me a wee bit uncomfortable) and I really don't want to mess up XD
The only support I'm hoping to receive from you guys is that you point anyone who hasn't seen my post my way (either on here, or on there, it doesn't matter much, I'll make sure to regularly check both tonight), so that I can handle their complaint.

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 8:48 PM
I'd rather not go and delete all of the mods, because I do not know if there are agreements or creations that are actually his own..

I specifically meant ONLY the ones that aren't uploaded by the actual author of the mod itself. In most cases the credit is somewhere in the post, so that should be relatively easy to see.



The only support I'm hoping to receive from you guys is that you point anyone who hasn't seen my post my way (either on here, or on there, it doesn't matter much, I'll make sure to regularly check both tonight), so that I can handle their complaint.

Well for now I can testify that unlike Chris you are actually doing something about it. Both posts I mentioned less than half an hour ago are indeed gone now. Thanks! =) were gone for a bit, but the one quoted above was back very soon (see below). Still no credit.

tsyokawe
28th Sep 2014, 9:02 PM
OMG. I googled this creep, and found a whole slew of stuff about him at a blog called the Mare's Nest.
This guy's been pulling some underhanded stunts from the git-go.

And I don't for one second believe that this is all some misunderstanding on his part.
If it were, he would have immediately deleted the content he stole, and then apologized.
But no - this scam artist has been spending his efforts on deflection, diversion, and dithering.

HugeLunatic
28th Sep 2014, 9:08 PM
...
If it were, he would have immediately deleted the content he stole, and then apologized.

Stealing implies claiming as their own, so I think using copyright infringement is far more accurate. :) Never once has he claimed the content to be his, and he does give credit. However he is still infringing on copyright by rehosting without permission.

Any creators who have content hosted there like this, please do send him a request to remove it.

Vampire_aninyosaloh
28th Sep 2014, 9:09 PM
Thank you for finally taking down my stuff @Meline

tsyokawe
28th Sep 2014, 9:21 PM
Stealing implies claiming as their own, so I think using copyright infringement is far more accurate. :) Never once has he claimed the content to be his, and he does give credit. However he is still infringing on copyright by rehosting without permission.

I realize you're right.

But, I guess I think of it as 'stealing,' because he doesn't link back to the actual content. In fact, he refuses to link to the actual content.
A person is expected to download it from his site - bombarded with his ads.
I think he originally intended to mislead people, too, because the downloads were under name.
I'm thinking that a lot of people probably concluded that they were his to offer.

I think of it as stealing, also, because he makes money from that site.
He takes content from here, and puts it there to make money.
The content uploaded here was is now actually attracting people there. And then, while people were sticking around to download it, they were staying there for that many more minutes...giving him more time to sell his ads.

Helianthea
28th Sep 2014, 9:26 PM
Thank you very much for your help, Meline! It's greatly appreciated :)
My stuff has been removed as it seems (used to be here: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/heliantheas-super-bland-comic-eyes-default-replacements-non-defaults.108/ just for reference)

Edit:Thanks a ton, @HugeLunatic - I just saw you mentioned my eyes over at the forum as an example.
Edit2: woah ... liar liar liar. Chris wrote "Anyhow as for those eyes, they will be removed. I only received the request to have them removed little under an hour ago. And as I have said, I have been busy." in his forum. Biggest, most blatant lie EVER! I'll gladly share my very one-sided "communication" for proof (1st mail sent on september 26th 20H06 GMT+2 fyi).

mustluvcatz
28th Sep 2014, 9:38 PM
@Meline - Thank you for being the one person who's willing to just do what's asked - or try to make sure it gets done - instead of trying to explain their way out of what happened. I don't know you but you seem to be a level-headed person who actually cares about what's right. That thread over there was closed before I could say anything. Chris' last post makes it clear that he'll never admit that hosting other people's content without permission was wrong and all of his "I just wanted to fill up our downloads section" and "I didn't know it was wrong to do that" and "It was temporary until I had time" excuses (because that's what they are) just aren't enough. If all that - especially the last one - is true? Then don't post anything, wait until you have the time to do it properly. It's that simple.

I understand wanting a site to grow and become popular. Promoting the growth by doing what he did.. *shakes head*. No, just no. I have no intention of staying a member over there because this whole thing has left a very bad taste in my mouth. If Chris had just said "I'm sorry. I was wrong. What can I do to fix this?" and not one other thing.. it might have been a different story.

Meline
28th Sep 2014, 9:44 PM
To all the thanks:
It's really no problem.
I am just sad that this whole ordeal has escalated like it has, and that it's caused so much issues for everyone involved.
I'm very happy to help, and please do continue sending anything you wish to see removed my way.

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 9:56 PM
I posted at EA forum (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/12764154/#Comment_12764154) (there is a thread about this too) before, although I don't really think there are creators who hang out only at EA.

tsyokawe
28th Sep 2014, 10:06 PM
As for hotlinked images etc...
if I was given a chance to respond to that on your site you would have known
that I have been quite busy the past week... and that I was going to get round to it
in the next couple of days when I wasn't busy working.

http://sims4forum.com/threads/not-good.2083/

O.M.G. and O.M.G. He'll get around to it??
What the [expletive deleted] was he doing hot-linking in the first place?
Is he going to pretend he doesn't know that he's stealing? That he's actually committing a crime - bandwidth theft?

I've now read a lot of stuff he was posting on EA forums...and whenever anyone called him on his bullshit, he claimed ignorance.
I hope they shut this guy down. I don't want his site to succeed. He will not add anything of value to the Sims Community.

eta disclaimer: These opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of MTS or its staff.

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 10:21 PM
Chris here, sorry to jump in... but I did try to say sorry guys :( and explain myself and offer to make things right. But some people here ignored me and my side of the story. I was banned straight after so I couldn't resolve things. I was a bit over defensive and worked up over the original accusations that I was doing it purely to make money which isn't in the least bit true.

But so lets keep this on the record, I HOLD MY HANDS UP I know what I did was wrong, and won't make the same mistake twice. I am more than happy and willing to work with everyone here to remove files, as is our mod Meline.

As for a few of you who said I ignored your request, I have removed the ones I was asked to, but some may have slipped through the net. With regards to Helianthea I am sure you emailed me yesterday and asked to have 2 files removed which I did, the most recent one for the comic eyes I can't recall being asked. But if I was, I apologise I must have missed your request to remove that... I said I only received the request to remove it an hour ago, because I received a notification of your DMCA complaint an hour ago. And I assumed that was the first time you contacted me about that file.

And guys with reference to themaresnest, it's a blog set up to bully anyone and everyone they disagree with... their posts are completely one sided and biased... I am not the only victim they've attacked, so please don't use them for facts. I did get into some drama on other forums in my late teens, yes... I did own 2 other gaming forums years ago and sold them while I was in college to pay for a new laptop and college materials I needed. And yes I probably did borderline spam the official Sims forums using my animated gif signature to promote our site, that I hold my hands up to, but I was just trying to promote our site as any site owner knows is pretty hard to do thee days. I make mistakes and regret them.

But I have monetised the Sims4Forum not out of selfishness and greed, but so I can afford more expensive hosting, giveaways and incentives to members to interact and help our site become awesome :)

I respect ALL of your opinions, a lot of things written about me are untrue though... and I have responded to them in such a way which makes myself looks worse only encouraging more people to mock me... and this has all snowballed out of control.

As I have said before, contact me via the contact form on our site... and I will try and makes things right for you if you're the creator... that is my promise. So give me and give us a chance.

The bottom line is this, I am sorry I did what I did. I am pretty clueless as far as custom content goes and what's right and what isn't. And at first I was over defensive and unfair. But I am here and willing to make this right.

All the creators here are free to contact us via the contact form and ask to have your stuff removed... which is what we shall do. Also I will work on removing those hotlinked images in the next day or two as it will take some time, but I will certainly do it... that's a promise!

So guys, give me and my site a chance to resolve this. I feel inside that I just want S4F to become a success, I've committed ALOT of time into it... it's my baby :) So I defend it vigarously when people attack me or the site with one sided accusations without contacting me beforehand to get the full story. I don't respond well, neither does anyone to bullying, heckling, accusations and demands without being able to put across your side of the story.

Anyhow, I am sorry :( and I will try and resolve all of this for you. But the best thing to do is contact me via the contact form on the site OR email me at: [email protected] and we'll sort it out. I will resolve things on a case by case basis and do my best to get ontop of it. It's best to do it directly with us, rather than letting this whole situation get out of control on here!

Without stoking the fire... contact us directly using my email above or our contact form and we will work with you!

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 10:32 PM
I suggest (not for the first time) that you quit your endless rambling and help Meline clean up your site instead. In the time you posted here, could have done something useful as well.

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 10:37 PM
I suggest (not for the first time) that you quit whaffling and help Meline clean up your site instead.

I do 'whaffle' on :p and I sure will :) I'm sorry.

I'd appreciate if you worked with me and put and end to the accusations and negativity in all these thread comments and promote what Leefish has quite rightly suggested at the beginning of this thread.... and ask us to remove content via our contact form, and if for any strange reason we refuse to file a DMCA complaint... it shouldn't get to that stage though.

Letting everyone continue to discuss this is hurting me. Not everyone is reading all the posts here, and are simply reading the title about us "Stealing content" and all the negativity towards me (some of which the accusations aren't true) and acting on it. There's better ways to deal with this. I do have a voice, and my side of events... it's hurtful having people discuss you and your actions in a one sided way and not be able to speak up for yourself and put things right.

tsyokawe
28th Sep 2014, 10:38 PM
yada, yada, yada...more lame excuses and prevarication...yada, yada, yada....

Instead of wasting your energy making excuses, why not just stop the illegal activity? Remove the hotlinked images.
And as for the custom content you've posted without permission. That's easy. Just remove it. If you do not have permission to post it, then don't. It's so easy.
The creators are not the ones responsible for your unethical and/or illegal behavior. YOU are. So just knock it off. Remove the content, and delete those images.

HugeLunatic
28th Sep 2014, 10:38 PM
Thank you for the apology Chris. But if you want to come across as sincere? Don't make excuses and require people to contact you. Remove any content you posted that was not made by you. :) That would go a long way to increase your sites reputation, and to begin to repair the resentment.

leefish
28th Sep 2014, 10:40 PM
Chris, thank you for the post. Given that you were the person who uploaded all these things without asking the original creators, the easiest thing for you to do is to unapprove/delete all the threads YOU have started in your uploads secton :)

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 10:45 PM
Thank you for the apology Chris. But if you want to come across as sincere? Don't make excuses and require people to contact you. Remove any content you posted that was not made by you. :) That would go a long way to increase your sites reputation, and to begin to repair the resentment.

That's the plan HugeLunatic, with respect to you all though I am on a UK timezone... so it's late here and I have work in the morning tomorrow. So if you'd allow me some time to resolve things that would be great!

I will remove everything, and follow up on the advice you guys have given on asking the creators what they'd rather have happen. I'd at the very least like to be able to link people on our site to MTS to where they can get the files from the creators themselves... as I now see, taking the files from here and uploading them on our site was completely wrong, and reckless of me... but I didn't do it knowing that, I assumed giving credit would be enough. But i'm more educated now :)

Anyhow folks, I promise you i'll make this right. It will all be fixed in the next few days, and I'd appreciate once it is you remove all the hurtful comments and negativity from here . I am more than willing to make this right, and learn from this for the future. I don't need a constant reminded and people in the future finding all this and not knowing it was resolved. You understand? :( :blink:

Chris, thank you for the post. Given that you were the person who uploaded all these things without asking the original creators, the easiest thing for you to do is to unapprove/delete all the threads YOU have started in your uploads secton :)

thanks leefish, I'll begin working on it tonight, and again after work tomorrow. It will all be resolved, thanks for listening to me. Also please read what I suggested above.

The title of this thread, the early comments from people saying i'm an asshole who's stealing everyones content, charging people and trying to make money off everything are will ruin me... while they aren't true, we do monetise the site but for the sites benefit. And we didn't upload custom content with the goal of monetising it. And for someone who doesn't have the time to read all the messages here, or at least the ones from myself will think this wasn't resolved and that we have bad intentions.

Srikandi
28th Sep 2014, 10:51 PM
Chris here, sorry to jump in... but I did try to say sorry guys :( and explain myself and offer to make things right. But some people here ignored me and my side of the story.

I don't think anybody ignored your side of the story. They just didn't think it justified anything that you did. It's possible to understand a perspective without agreeing with the actions of the person who has that perspective.

You basically described why it was to your benefit to do what you did, but you took no account of the cost to others (the creators, and the wider modding community) of you doing it. Which isn't going to persuade anybody that it was correct. It was selfish, unethical, and illegal in relation to your host's guidelines, and your own.

And nobody who thinks you were wrong is going to be content with your removing the work of only the people who complained. You should remove EVERYTHING you have not received permission to host, and in the future, if you want to "share" content, share links to the original hosting rather than reuploading, like other reputable mod aggregation sites do. Nothing short of that is going to clear your name. And it will save you money in bandwidth and space :p

leefish
28th Sep 2014, 10:55 PM
I will understand a lot faster if you actually take action. You are still hotlinking the images used in the posts. The images might be the creators copyright, but the bandwidth is from MTS.

Example

list of links
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=535110
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/script-simocide-kill-your-sims.129/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534853
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-babies-for-everyone-mod.127/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534978
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-realistic-cheaper-bills-mod-not-too-high-not-too-low.125/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534681
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-friendship-romantic-relationship-decay-mod.124/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534925
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-motives-decay-mod-hunger-fun-energy-etc.123/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534590
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/the-sims-4-tv-and-computer-menu-revamp-mod.86/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533779
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-weirder-walkstyles-disabled-mod.85/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534038
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-blur-in-the-distance-mod.55/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532909
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-intro-title-mod.54/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532966
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-slow-time-mod.52/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533026
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/stand-still-in-cas.49/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=532891
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-adjustable-lighting-mod-brighter-lights.48/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533562
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-fade-sims-and-objects-mod.87/ = http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=533846

Please remove those :)

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 10:56 PM
I don't think anybody ignored your side of the story. They just didn't think it justified anything that you did. It's possible to understand a perspective without agreeing with the actions of the person who has that perspective.

You basically described why it was to your benefit to do what you did, but you took no account of the cost to others of you doing it. Which isn't going to persuade anybody that it was correct.

And nobody who thinks you were wrong is going to be content with your removing the work of only the people who complained. You should remove EVERYTHING you have not received permission to host, and in the future, if you want to "share", share links to the original hosting rather than reuploading. Nothing short of that is going to clear your name.

So would everyone here find it acceptable as you suggested if I instead linked to all the individual files that are hosted here on MTS instead of hosting them.

That would be my preference, that way people can find custom content on our site, and be linked to here so they can download them and find more. That way we haven't taken anything.

I would still like to share custom content on our site and redirect people to where they can get it... as most other blogs and sites do. :blink:

tsyokawe
28th Sep 2014, 10:59 PM
Anyhow folks, I promise you i'll make this right. It will all be fixed in the next few days, and I'd appreciate once it is you remove all the hurtful comments and negativity from here . I am more than willing to make this right, and learn from this for the future. I don't need a constant reminded and people in the future finding all this and not knowing it was resolved. You understand? :( :blink:

My two cents. I vote that these posts here should stay here. Your behavior should be documented. Whether you actually remove the hot-linked images and custom content or not - the fact that you stole bandwidth, and posted custom content without permission should not be swept under some rug just because the public knowledge of your behavior makes you uncomfortable.

HugeLunatic
28th Sep 2014, 11:04 PM
So would everyone here find it acceptable as you suggested if I instead linked to all the individual files that are hosted here on MTS instead of hosting them.


Absolutely not! I asked you to remove hot linked images, why would MTS allow you to hotlink files? Would you like me to hotlink your images and files all over the internet?

You are going the wrong way to restore you and your site's reputation.

plasticbox
28th Sep 2014, 11:05 PM
Remove means REMOVE. If you continue to play stupid I'm going to start posting links about your backstory. Do you want that? Not that I'd think people aren't capable of googling themselves, of course.

leefish
28th Sep 2014, 11:07 PM
Hmm, I think I haven't been clear Chris. This is what I find acceptable; that you stop using MTS as a picture hosting service and that you treat creators with courtesy and respect and ask before you repost their work.

So, removing the threads is the fastest solution. - just ask meline to soft delete all your downloads threads made by you. Simple. It's Xenforo? You search by user created threads in nodes and child nodes and hit delete. 3 minutes work max.

Re your last post? MORE hotlinking to the actual files? No of course not.

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 11:09 PM
Absolutely not! I asked you to remove hot linked images, why would MTS allow you to hotlink files? Would you like me to hotlink your images and files all over the internet?

You are going the wrong way to restore you and your site's reputation.

No, what I mean is linking people to the pages where they can find out more about the mod... just as people across the web do. If I was to find a cool mod on MTS I should be able to say "hey, you can find out more and get the mod from ModTheSims" I see reputable blogs and sites linking to mods on ModTheSims all the time.

It's not illegal to share a link to a page on another site that's of interest. If people can't link to your site, why is it publicly available to everyone? How would anyone find your site/mods if hotlinking to pages here wasn't allowed. :| I am confused.

heaven
28th Sep 2014, 11:10 PM
Regardless of your intentions, regardless of whether you made money from your actions, the fact still remains that you hosted content that you had no right to host. The reasoning behind it and (debated) profit from it doesn't matter. No one should have to contact YOU to ask that you remove THEIR content. If it's not yours, or it wasn't submitted directly from the creator, you should delete it. People come to MTS and submit their work to be hosted. We specifically have guidelines against sharing content from other people, even if correct credit is given. If you want people to submit to your site, you wait for them to do it. Not take it upon yourself to do it for them, without their consent or even knowledge in some cases.

It's not illegal to share a link to a page on another site that's of interest. If people can't link to your site, why is it publicly available to everyone? How would anyone find your site/mods if hotlinking to pages here wasn't allowed. :| I am confused.

That's a good question, considering linking to other sites isn't allowed on your site (http://sims4forum.com/threads/hello-everyone.2/page-7#post-5410). So it might be worth it to consider redoing a few things over there. There is a difference between hotlinking and linking. ;)

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 11:12 PM
Just as sites like this do:

http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/2014/09/dont-worry-everybody-theres-already-a-nude-mod-for-the-sims-4/
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/09/the-sims-4-already-has-a-nudity-mod/
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/sims-4-mods-7-most-hilarious-mods-already-available-385127

and countless others? Linking to pages here would be nothing but beneficial to modthesims and respectful of the creators since this is the place they uploaded their work.

I am onboard with regards not not hosting the files and using hotlinked images from here without permission to do so. But linking to the page shouldn't be an issue.

My point is, I don't want to censor and remove every link to good custom content from ModTheSims. Since the entire web links to mods they find on MTS why can't we. It'd hurt our site if we refused to allow our members to discuss or share links to custom content they like, use or enjoy.

leefish
28th Sep 2014, 11:18 PM
Oh, you want to link to the page - so a download section that consists of a lot of pages where people get sent to another website entirely?

But you would not have those in your downloads section as they are not actually downloads are they ? They are finds. I am sure you would not want to confuse people into thinking you had lots of downloads in a particular section when what you actually had is a list of files that people can already download elsewhere for free.

Thank you for the kind offer to advertise our downloads section, but I shall have to decline.

JustListen14
28th Sep 2014, 11:19 PM
Note. I am in the process of removing all the content from our site right now...:D but I would link to link to the pages instead at some point so people know where to find out more about them.

mustluvcatz
28th Sep 2014, 11:29 PM
If you'd like to link to the pages at some point - start a "Finds" thread. Post a picture if you'd like (that you haven't hotlinked to- save it to your computer and upload it to your site/a photo site), maybe a little blurb "Hey, look at this great new ____ by ____ if you'd like it, you can get it ______ (an actual link to the page the download is hosted on). Easy peasy.

Helianthea
29th Sep 2014, 12:25 AM
Dear Chris,

please kindly note that I hereby explicitly forbid sims4forum.com to ever link to any content of mine. This includes all content I have made so far and every content I shall ever create in the future: packages, pictures, description, everything. I want nothing to do with your site, and your excuses mean nothing to me - it's obvious you're getting cold feet, nothing about your apology sounds even remotely sincere (if it were, the issue would've been resolved days, possibly WEEKS ago) There's only one good thing about sims4forum if you ask me, and that's your mod Meline.
If you need that in email form, I will gladly provide you with it - here's to hoping the email will magically find its way to you. I will also update my TOU accordingly.

Do you know the saying "what goes on the internet stays on the internet"? That goes for your "little shenanigans" as well. Do not think for a second that I lack the brain cells necessary to google. And truth be told: you're not really making it difficult to find the piles of dirt you've amassed over the past 5 years. reddit in particular gave some interesting finds, to say the least. (lol, 2 forums ...)
And say what you will about themaresnest (I haven't known the site until a couple days ago so not gonna judge), but I could easily find evidence to the claims they've made about you, so at least as far as you're concerned, they've been spot-on. Besides, you in particular might want to keep your mouth shut about somebody being, I quote: "onesided and biased" ... ;)

Darn, 1 AM. Still: worth it.

tsyokawe
29th Sep 2014, 12:45 AM
Same here - Mare's Nest is new to me, but I followed all their links, and those links backed up everything they were saying about him.
I didn't think to go over to reddit. I didn't realize they had a Sims place - well, duh, of course they would! <musical notes> doy da doy doy </musical notes>

In his posts on the EA forum, he was making the same sort of claims he is here. Of course, he feigned ignorance,
and he claimed that people were attacking him and unjustly accusing him of stuff he just wasn't doing!

It's only quarter to six, here. I'm waiting to watch Miss Marple...

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 1:58 AM
Attached below is the text-only version of the thread formerly known as "Not Good" over at S4F which got deleted unsurprisingly quickly. As retreived from Google Cache about an hour ago (google for "sims4forum not good" and it'll be right at the top). Full credit, of course, goes to the respective authors. And here is a link to the site as well: http://sims4forum.com/threads/not-good.2083/. QFT because people have been referring to it in this thread.


Also, the only edits by Chris yesterday were:

sims4forum.com/posts/22961/ -- Sims 4 Babies for Everyone Mod: Text is C+P, pictures are C+P, file may be an external link, credit is given but no link
Upload on mts: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=534978

sims4forum.com/posts/22960/ -- [Script] Simocide - Kill your sims!: Text is C+P, pictures are C+P, file may be an external link, no credit given
Upload on mts: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=534853

sims4forum.com/posts/22958/ -- Sims Reduced Townie Generating Mod: Text is C+P (outdated version), picture is C+P, file may be an external link, no credit given
Upload on mts: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=535110

The last one is one of the threads that Meline said she removed (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4551029#post4551029) yesterday (and it was removed when I checked). Of course I cannot tell whether it was restored/reuploaded/whatever with her knowledge or not. @Meline you might want to look into this? Unless of course the creator has explicitely stated he's OK with having an uncredited outdated upload post floating around somewhere .. which seems rather unlikely.

By "file may be an external link" I mean that it looks like one but I can't actually check (I have no account there)



And there's two other posts (by a different user) which say "This resource has been removed and is no longer available for download" but I'm told the files are still there:

sims4forum.com/threads/stand-still-in-cas.1599/ 2014-09-07
sims4forum.com/threads/sims-4-slow-time-mod.1629/ 2014-09-07


So much for "I am in the process of removing all the content from our site" (here (http://modthesims.info/m/showthread.php?p=4551234#post4551234)).



Also, is it a new thing that it says on each and every download page: "We reserve the right to charge users for access to content hosted on and/or uploaded to our site. Any charges associated with files are purely for the maintenance of the server, bandwidth fees etc. Charges may be added/removed at any time and by uploading content to this area of the website you accept these terms. There will be no refunds, if you purchase an item you are are agreeing to this."

?

Fentonparkninja
29th Sep 2014, 2:14 AM
It's not illegal to share a link to a page on another site that's of interest. If people can't link to your site, why is it publicly available to everyone? How would anyone find your site/mods if hotlinking to pages here wasn't allowed. :| I am confused.So what does a sims4forum subscription even get you when all its stolen content is removed? Premium download links? A trollface gif with "THANKS SUCKERS!" on it?

Hell yeah, time to sell that shit on and rake in the dosh!

(And I'm sure the lack of stealing from hotlinking to sharing links to MTS will not impact this site's visibility too badly ...)

Meline
29th Sep 2014, 9:29 AM
The last one is one of the threads that Meline said she removed (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4551029#post4551029) yesterday (and it was removed when I checked). Of course I cannot tell whether it was restored/reuploaded/whatever with her knowledge or not. @Meline you might want to look into this? Unless of course the creator has explicitely stated he's OK with having an uncredited outdated upload post floating around somewhere .. which seems rather unlikely.

By "file may be an external link" I mean that it looks like one but I can't actually check (I have no account there)


Some of the threads have been restored, this one is indeed one of them.
Instead of the 'Download Now' button at the top it's a button that says 'Download via external site', and upon clicking it it lands you on the appropriate page on MTS.

To be completely honest with you I am really not sure how I should feel about that, seeing as it is no longer hosted elsewhere.
If anything, it sends more traffic to the original pages, and the rest of MTS to boot.
However I can completely understand the bad taste all of this left in every ones mouths, and I personally would prefer it if the top of the thread clearly stated this was not his work, but that it can be found -link-, and that all credit goes to -creatorname-.





Edit/small note:
Instead of just clicking 'disagree' on my posts, it would be much more beneficial to share your point of view with me, so that together we can come to solution for whatever it is you're disagreeing with. I feel like there are some people who are clicking the negative buttons simply because I am 'one of them', rather than seeing I am actually trying to work with you, not against you.
Nothing all too bothersome, but still something I felt I should say.

Helianthea
29th Sep 2014, 4:33 PM
Also, is it a new thing that it says on each and every download page: "We reserve the right to charge users for access to content hosted on and/or uploaded to our site. Any charges associated with files are purely for the maintenance of the server, bandwidth fees etc. Charges may be added/removed at any time and by uploading content to this area of the website you accept these terms. There will be no refunds, if you purchase an item you are are agreeing to this."?
Do you mean the fancy fineprint on the bottom right below "share this page"? That's been around for 3-4 days at least. Absolutely possible it's been there even longer, but that was when I first noticed it.

Miuki
29th Sep 2014, 5:02 PM
Wow, just wow!
plasticbox Thank you for the cache of that thread.
A very telling thread. I wonder what self-respectful creator would upload their content to S4F willingly after this ugly situation and with TOU that they currently have, I definitely would not. Especially after comparing Chris's answers in both MTS threads and in the one Plasticbox shared. Someone lies too much and doesn't keep track of it!
Though I would like to thanks Meline for trying to work this out in the civil manner. I think you are too decent for that forum.))

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 5:18 PM
Some of the threads have been restored, this one is indeed one of them.
Instead of the 'Download Now' button at the top it's a button that says 'Download via external site', and upon clicking it it lands you on the appropriate page on MTS.


There is still NO CREDIT
The text is still outdated
Text and pics are still C+P -- do you have permission to copy?
There is still NO link and no way to track down the original creator/upload for people who aren't logged in
There is NO way for the original creator to edit/update since he isn't the thread owner
There is no indication an updated version is available at all (here, where it belongs (plus possibly other places where the creator has uploaded himself))

Have you ever asked @Shimrod101 what he says about this?

I'd suggest you stop playing games. When you say something is removed, it ought to STAY removed.

Which are the other threads that got "restored"? List please.


Instead of just clicking 'disagree' on my posts, it would be much more beneficial to share your point of view with me

Yes, I agree. (Although I guess some of the disagrees might be people who aren't creators themselves, and want to leave the actual discussion up to those, which is not entirely unreasonable either. We introduced these buttons to avoid "Me too" posts, you see.)


(Also, the "you" above isn't a personal you -- I mean the site in general, not specifically Meline. I'm aware that you aren't the thread owner either.)

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 5:23 PM
I have also received a PM by a user voicing the following concerns -- technically this is correct, so I thought I'd share:


This part concerns me:


As I have said before, contact me via the contact form on our site... and I will try and makes things right for you if you're the creator... that is my promise. So give me and give us a chance.


And this:


Without stoking the fire... contact us directly using my email above or our contact form and we will work with you!

Knowing the way web servers and forum softwares work very well, this COULD, emphasis on could, be a way of getting those creators', who's content he infringed, IP addresses with the intention of performing a blanket ban from them accessing the site.

It may not be, he just seemed a little over insistant on people using methods to contact him that he specified.

But generally, it may be an idea to advise people to be wary of posting anything on that site, as that will also give him their IP address.

I'd also be wary of using a contact form because that means you have no way of proving you've tried to contact them, in case the host asks for that. Better send an email or just go via the host right away.

Helianthea
29th Sep 2014, 5:39 PM
@plasticbox - not sure if this is of any help regarding this, but may I direct your attention to the "the oh so many perks of VIP"-thread: http://sims4forum.com/threads/introducing-sims-4-vips.556/ , specifically the bulletpoint "Custom Sims4 email".
I short, VIP gives one a "@sims4forum.com" email adress, and it is specified that all mail sent to such an email address will simply redirect to the primary email account. No idea if this is the case for chris' email, as well, also no idea if this helps, but I thought I'd mention it.

leefish
29th Sep 2014, 5:48 PM
Just to reiterate; the point of this thread is to let creators know what they can do to have their content which is being hosted without their permission removed.

You can send the DMCA to [email protected] and not contact sims4forum at all. I think you can even leave off your name and address and phone number (that wont be shared with sims4forum anyway). The basic layout is in the second post of this thread.

What we do see so far is that asking nicely is being ignored; action is only taken by sims4forum owner when bluehost tell him to, so why bother asking nicely?

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 5:57 PM
You mean for how to reliably get in touch? The best way for that would be do to a whois lookup. Ah interesting, he removed his entries since last week, now the email for everything is [email protected] (from http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx?domain=SIMS4FORUM.COM -- that is the domain registrar).

If there's no reply, I'd suggest getting in touch with the host: "Please send reports of spam and abuse to [email protected]" or of course [email protected] It is absolutely not necessary for creators he's trying to rip off to jump through any hoops for getting in touch -- particularly not by using a contact form, because that means you have no proof for having sent an email at all.

(Sniped by leefish, but is still interesting how quickly he can act if he wants to .. not that it would change anything, of course)

Helianthea
29th Sep 2014, 6:01 PM
Was more in regards to the possibilty to IP bans. Though after reading again, it appears that problem would arise with using the contact form only, so nevermind. (got too hooked on the "he's insisting on using certain ways of contacting him" and I remember him often asking to contact him at his @sims4forum.com address, that's why I've got it mixed up I suppose)

Meline
29th Sep 2014, 6:33 PM
There is still NO CREDIT
The text is still outdated
Text and pics are still C+P -- do you have permission to copy?
There is still NO link and no way to track down the original creator/upload for people who aren't logged in
There is NO way for the original creator to edit/update since he isn't the thread owner
There is no indication an updated version is available at all (here, where it belongs (plus possibly other places where the creator has uploaded himself))

Have you ever asked @Shimrod101 what he says about this?

I'd suggest you stop playing games. When you say something is removed, it ought to STAY removed.

Which are the other threads that got "restored"? List please.



Yes, I agree. (Although I guess some of the disagrees might be people who aren't creators themselves, and want to leave the actual discussion up to those, which is not entirely unreasonable either. We introduced these buttons to avoid "Me too" posts, you see.)


(Also, the "you" above isn't a personal you -- I mean the site in general, not specifically Meline. I'm aware that you aren't the thread owner either.)

The mods that I've removed which have been restored (without discussion, and without my input) are these three:
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-babies-for-everyone-mod.127/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/script-simocide-kill-your-sims.129/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/

He included credit in the first one on the list, the other two I have put in a line of credit (and link to MTS profile) at the top of the post.

As I've stated before I'm really not quite sure what steps I can take; my hands are tied in the sense that anything I do can get undone just as quickly, and that the lack of communication between me and Chris is troublesome, to say the least. He has not explained to me his reasoning for updating these threads, and as far as I have read in this thread this is not okay either.
The downloads are off the site, and all downloaders are linked directly to the mod on MTS AND credit is given to the rightful owner.
I will continue to remove the mods of those who ask me to, but you must understand that I have only gotten wind of this whole ordeal yesterday, and there are still plenty bits and pieces missing in my general knowledge of this whole situation.
I fully understand the frustration and anger directed at him (and the whole of S4F) but I am trying to best to help out, without stepping on any toes.

Any emails send directly to him or to the host are unavailable for my eyes, and I won't be able to help anyone with those...

leefish
29th Sep 2014, 6:44 PM
@meline , thank you for the reply. I am going with the assumption that you are a decent simmer who is trying, but actually, as you say, you don't have the powers to make things stick.

The situation is simple; there is a person whose sources of income depends on making and monetising websites based around fandoms and then selling those sites on. That is perfectly ok, very normal business. This person has no interest in the sims games and they don't have to have an interest.

What they DO have to have is respect for the rights of the simmers who share content on the internet and to be prevented from abusing those peoples work. For example, Sims4forums are still linking MTS images - it may be a small image, but it is hosted on this site and that means you are stealing bandwidth.

My advice to you meline is to cut your losses and go join a great forum that would appreciate a good moderator. There are lots of them around - unless of course this is a paid job for you, in which case my commiserations :(

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 6:45 PM
The mods that I've removed which have been restored (without discussion, and without my input) are these three:
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-babies-for-everyone-mod.127/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/script-simocide-kill-your-sims.129/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-reduced-townie-generating-mod.130/


Ah those are the same that I listed as well. Thanks though!


As I've stated before I'm really not quite sure what steps I can take.
You could for instance remove all of the hotlinks? There are still plenty, see list by leefish posted somewhere upthreads (or better still, go through Chris' posts and check for yourself since I wouldn't assume lee has done ALL the work for you -- her links may just be examples). This is something that can't be undone that easily, and also it's pretty clear-cut: you have NO permission whatsoever to use mts as your file host, so don't.

Other than that, have you already contacted ALL of the creators whose text/pics/files you are still hosting? It's your job (as a site) to contact them, not their job to track down abuse.

Meline
29th Sep 2014, 7:05 PM
@meline , thank you for the reply. I am going with the assumption that you are a decent simmer who is trying, but actually, as you say, you don't have the powers to make things stick.

The situation is simple; there is a person whose sources of income depends on making and monetising websites based around fandoms and then selling those sites on. That is perfectly ok, very normal business. This person has no interest in the sims games and they don't have to have an interest.

What they DO have to have is respect for the rights of the simmers who share content on the internet and to be prevented from abusing those peoples work. For example, Sims4forums are still linking MTS images - it may be a small image, but it is hosted on this site and that means you are stealing bandwidth.

My advice to you meline is to cut your losses and go join a great forum that would appreciate a good moderator. There are lots of them around - unless of course this is a paid job for you, in which case my commiserations :(

It is most certainly not a paid job.
I've been playing the Sims ever since the original came out and I just wanted to contribute, in a way.

I'll try to go through his threads tonight to see if I can at the very least remove the hotlinks like @plasticbox suggested.
Trying to handle things last night whilst also attempting to study for my exam today was a bit half-arsed, for that I apologize.

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 7:14 PM
We're aware you also have a life ;) .. so do we. Which is why we (or at least I) are getting a little fed up with having to negotiate over every single byte.

You're aware that your site owner has been (or at least: trying to) sell off sites *including unpaid moderators* in the past (https://flippa.com/2705600-ps-vita-gamer-forum-2-000-members-33-000-posts-200plus-dollars-pm-revenue), yes?


E: Also, @Meline can you clarify what you mean by "all downloaders are linked directly to the mod on MTS" (two posts up)? Linked to the page or to the file? The latter would also mean hotlinking .. in that case, please remove.

Yogi-Tea
29th Sep 2014, 7:35 PM
Can't help but it makes me sad to read all this. Have we already come that far? Okay, some people have always stolen stuff from others and uploaded it elsewhere (e.g. Exchange) - in small numbers. Now people start a whole new site and just because they want it to become big and successful as fast as possible (and because they seem to be too lazy or unable to create their own things) they steal stuff in a large number, just because they can? Wow.... that's sad.

What about if good creators stopped sharing their stuff because they got sick of seeing their stuff uploaded by others? I personally don't care whether someone makes money out of it or not, or whether the description of the download is copied/pasted or not. Even if they took their own screenshots of those items and wrote their own description, the item itself is still stolen - credit given or not.

I don't mind sites like Sims 3 Updates (http://www.sims3updates.net/index.php) post pictures of my downloads and link to them (to MTS) but I'd hate to see my download files shared anywhere else, unless I had given permission for it (for whatever reason).

I also do not care if the law allows people to share other people's creations or not. It's a matter of decency not to do so if the creator doesn't want to.

Just my 2 cents - and I don't want to talk about it any further because the whole topic pisses me off. :(

tsyokawe
29th Sep 2014, 7:57 PM
These aren't just little thumbs, either. This is a very large image.
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b485/tsyokawe/BandwidthTheft-Sims4Forum_zps4b1c1bc4.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/tsyokawe/media/BandwidthTheft-Sims4Forum_zps4b1c1bc4.jpg.html)

All you need to do is right-click on the image, and select 'properties.' And voila, it becomes clear that the image lives at MTS.

Miuki
29th Sep 2014, 8:05 PM
KandanceKiss44 How many more double accounts are you going to make Chris? But that's not you, it's one of your imaginary friends again, right?
Yeah he was unaware of the sim custom content sharing ettiquette and the content should be taken down and such. At the same time, no need to treat him rudely. A-a-and more bullshit. I've never seen people to be OK with someone monetizing content they made and hosting their files without permission. "Etiquette"! Year, right.))
One good thing for you is that you'll still get some traffic, since someone will check if you've stolen someone else's work again from time to time.

Meline
29th Sep 2014, 8:21 PM
We're aware you also have a life ;) .. so do we. Which is why we (or at least I) are getting a little fed up with having to negotiate over every single byte.

You're aware that your site owner has been (or at least: trying to) sell off sites *including unpaid moderators* in the past (https://flippa.com/2705600-ps-vita-gamer-forum-2-000-members-33-000-posts-200plus-dollars-pm-revenue), yes?


E: Also, @Meline can you clarify what you mean by "all downloaders are linked directly to the mod on MTS" (two posts up)? Linked to the page or to the file? The latter would also mean hotlinking .. in that case, please remove.

The links I have put in link to the creators profile here on MTS; through that they can find the mod ánd other content they have created.
The 'Download now via external site' buttons that Chris has put in link to the page which contains the content here on MTS.

I have just gone through all of the threads (at least, I hope I managed to get them all, I have to admit my head is spinning a bit from all the clicking and tabbing) and we should now be free of all MTS images, including all the little emotes that transferred from here to there...
Not ALL creators are fully credited at the top of the thread yet, I plan to continue with this tomorrow after work.
In the meantime I shall contact anyone whose content is hosted on S4F and ask them if they would like it to be removed or to keep it as it is.
Again, it's quite a list and I most likely won't get it all today, but it's been in set in motion.

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 8:23 PM
Thanks for the update!

plasticbox
29th Sep 2014, 9:44 PM
we should now be free of all MTS images

You are not. Please doublecheck.

sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-michael-jackson-sim-by-lunararc.64/
sims4forum.com/custom-content/star-trek-original-series-male-shirts.104/

I see no links to the original creators either (so these are probably posts that you missed, or your edits have been removed). Do you have permission at all? Are the creators aware that you "reserve the right to charge" for these uploads?


(The above does not mean there are no hotlinks in other posts -- I only looked at the last few edits at the time of posting. Is not my job to clean up your site, you know.)

Helianthea
29th Sep 2014, 9:54 PM
adding:
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-dead-trees-female-back-tattoo.106/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-black-alien-eyes-by-lukeproduction.63/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-smaller-censor-mosaic-mod.157/

@FifthAce2007 : wanted to let you know that your wedding dresses are back up: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses.105/ can't tell whether downloadable or not, doesn't say anything about it on the site.
Not sure if you're okay with that.

Meline
29th Sep 2014, 9:55 PM
You are not. Please doublecheck.

http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-michael-jackson-sim-by-lunararc.64/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/star-trek-original-series-male-shirts.104/

I see no links to the original creators either (so these are probably posts that you missed, or your edits have been removed). Do you have permission at all? Are the creators aware that you "reserve the right to charge" for these uploads?

They have been taken care of, they must've slipped through.
I will continue to check over the course of the next few days...
As far as payments go I have absolutely nothing to do with that and no way of influencing it, so I will refrain from commenting on that.

Meline
29th Sep 2014, 10:02 PM
adding:
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-dead-trees-female-back-tattoo.106/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-black-alien-eyes-by-lukeproduction.63/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-smaller-censor-mosaic-mod.157/

@FifthAce2007 : wanted to let you know that your wedding dresses are back up: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses.105/ can't tell whether downloadable or not, doesn't say anything about it on the site.
Not sure if you're okay with that.

Also taken care of...

TamiraA
29th Sep 2014, 11:08 PM
I'm not a creator but a user very thankful for all the hard work the creators have done. So I won't butt into the argument. I just wanted to point out, that even though the hotlinking has been removed from the entry page. Chris' upload discussion thread still has the hotlinking I'm not sure if you have permission to delete those posts.

Here is an example: http://sims4forum.com/threads/sims-4-dead-trees-female-back-tattoo.1855/

mustluvcatz
29th Sep 2014, 11:35 PM
@Meline - Leefish suggested earlier that you cut your losses when it comes to Sims4Forum. Yes, that's what you should do. Now. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.00 - leave and don't look back. Chris restoring what you've tried to delete is absolute proof that he doesn't give one damn about you. Why continue being a part of a site that doesn't value you as a part of the team? You may not be the site owner or an admin, but as part of the staff your opinion should carry some weight. Is there a staff discussion forum there where you've posted your concerns? Not that it really matters- even if there is, it's clear that what you think and your efforts to make things right are just being undermined by Chris.

My advice to any creator who's content has been/still is on that site? Demand that it be removed entirely. No links to the actual download. No link to the download in a Finds thread. Nothing. Not even a tiny little thumbnail.

tsyokawe
29th Sep 2014, 11:46 PM
Shut him down. He's still got MTS content over there without permission.
After all the protests aired in this thread, he's still kept MTS content.

All he's done is to slow the momentum. He's got people thinking about giving him and his staff a little more time...even the benefit of the doubt.
Nothing has changed. Not really. It just looks like it might.
Maybe the hotlinks will eventually be removed. Maybe he'll eventually make it plainer that these appropriated uploads are not his own.

So what? Even if he does those things, eventually...

The fact still remains, permissions have been denied. An overwhelming number of MTS creators abhor paysites.
And while he's claiming he's not a paysite, he "reserve[s] the right to charge users for > access < to content hosted on and/or uploaded to [his] site."
Excuse me, but that makes him a paysite. He intends to start charging folks - he just isn't doing it, yet.
_*_*_

The creators need to complain. Not just from MTS - but every creator he is ripping off.

@leefish : Would it be inappropriate of me to use the Contact Us form on some of the other sites,
and link them to the original post in this thread?

I am so deeply pissed off at the idea of what this man is doing, that I want to do something to help.
I just can't seem to figure out what would be helpful, and what would be presumptuous (or worse yet, counter-productive).
VVVV VVVV VVVV

leefish
29th Sep 2014, 11:49 PM
The creators need to complain. Not just from MTS - but every creator he is ripping off.

JustListen14
30th Sep 2014, 12:39 AM
all files here have been removed from our servers, hot-linked images have been removed.

taking further measures too soon! like I said last night, it was late when I posted my message, and I have been working all day today. But it's done.

leefish
30th Sep 2014, 12:50 AM
Chris - thanks for the post.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 12:52 AM
all files here have been removed from our servers

O RLY?

sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-blur-in-the-distance-mod.55/

This is by Shimrod101. Who EXPLICITELY told you (in a PM that Meline has received without doubt):

I want my screenshots, descriptions, the text which I have written, all of which Sims4Forum has copied from here at MTS, REMOVED! And never posted at Sims4Forum ever again.

So do that. This goes for every other piece of content as well except where you have explicit permission. And don't try to bullshit people into thinking you have complied when you haven't.


(E: qft attached .. just in case anyone wondered what I'm replying to.)

TamiraA
30th Sep 2014, 1:01 AM
Just wanted to point out a few more (plus the hotlinking in the discussion thread is still there)

The time mod by @IceM http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-slow-time-mod.52/
The stand still mod by @Shimrod101 http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/stand-still-in-cas.49/

There is a notice that the file has been removed, but the download file is still there (does not say via external site) Those posts do not credit the original creator either.

JustListen14
30th Sep 2014, 1:09 AM
O RLY?

sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-no-blur-in-the-distance-mod.55/

This is by Shimrod101. Who EXPLICITELY told you (in a PM that Meline has received without doubt):



So do that. This goes for every other piece of content as well except where you have explicit permission. And don't try to bullshit people into thinking you have complied when you haven't.

oops, I missed that. Makes sense plasticbox!

It's 1am right now, I have work early in the morning, after I get home around 5-6pm gmt I will begin removing all content within the posts, replacing them with short descriptions of what they are and what they do...

I am also trying to reshuffle our custom content area, I do think it has a useful function on our site for our members to share good custom content wherever it is, providing they follow a strict, clear set of rules. One of them obviously being not to upload the files like I did, no copy and pasting, and having it all compiled in a separate area of our site not to be confused for content we host or have anything to do with.

Also looking into how I can de-monetize/remove ads and whatnot from the area where external mods are shared/linked to... probably using conditional code/tags excluding certain parts of the site... but yeah :up:

Going to hit the hay now, I am absolutely shattered :(

Vampire_aninyosaloh
30th Sep 2014, 1:12 AM
I just went over there and in a quick look I saw these two:
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-black-alien-eyes-by-lukeproduction.63/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-michael-jackson-sim-by-lunararc.64/

JustListen14
30th Sep 2014, 1:14 AM
Just wanted to point out a few more (plus the hotlinking in the discussion thread is still there)

The time mod by @IceM http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-slow-time-mod.52/
The stand still mod by @Shimrod101 http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/stand-still-in-cas.49/

There is a notice that the file has been removed, but the download file is still there (does not say via external site) Those posts do not credit the original creator either.

Damn Xenforo, I'll no doubt have to go through everything again in the discussion threads and remove the hotlinked images. It appears the first post in the discussion thread doesn't update when I update the mod page itself. Will add that to the to-do list tomorrow! May disable discussion threads on the external mods... so as to avoid this if I can.

Hoping to seperate the mods not hosted by us, and have them not less visible on our site so as not to confuse people like someone suggested earlier.

mustluvcatz
30th Sep 2014, 1:16 AM
The stand still mod might not ever be removed:
http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/61818_140929200809ScreenShot1958.png

Because, gee- renaming the package file means Vinyl can claim to have made it! NOT. Compare Shimrod's description to Vinyl's. Almost the same word for word - there is no way that 2 different creators happened to write almost word for word the same description. So leaving out a few words and the file name change means absolutely nothing. Vinyl did NOT create that mod. Steal much?

Now I haz a question for TS4 creators who would know: If 2 different people create a mod that does the exact same thing (changes the exact same resource) would both packages be identical if opened with s4pe? Instance numbers and everything?

Edit: Btw, I took that screenshot at 7:06 PM Central time, today 9/29/3014. So as of that time the mod was still downloadable from there.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 1:17 AM
Shut him down. He's still got MTS content over there without permission.

Just to clarify (once again): When creators post uploads at MTS, that doesn't mean it becomes "MTS content". That's why Lee keeps repeating that it's the creators who need to file a DMCA .. we can't do that in their name.


Would it be inappropriate of me to use the Contact Us form on some of the other sites, and link them to the original post in this thread?

Not sure which "some other sites" you mean, but if you mean making other creators aware their content is being posted elsewhere and that may be without their permission or knowledge, I can't see anything inappropriate about that. I for one would be perfectly OK with it if someone would notify me in such a case.

tsyokawe
30th Sep 2014, 1:20 AM
Hello,


If you see any content you have a problem with that is yours, then please link me to it.

Thanks for your cooperation.

What utter bullshit. If you have any content at all that wasn't produced/created by one of your members,
you should take it down unless you've received explicit permission to post it. See how easy that is?

Hopefully, it's too late. There's going to be a rush of formal complaints hitting your provider's email in the next day.
It's been over three days, so I'm figuring there's at least 12 folks who will be sending theirs off tonight.

ooops. I guess you shoulda spent this time removing the offending material instead of making excuses and pretending to cooperate.

Just to clarify (once again): When creators post uploads at MTS, that doesn't mean it becomes "MTS content". That's why Lee keeps repeating that it's the creators who need to file a DMCA .. we can't do that in their name.

Not sure which "some other sites" you mean, but if you mean making other creators aware their content is being posted elsewhere and that may be without their permission or knowledge, I can't see anything inappropriate about that. I for one would be perfectly OK with it if someone would notify me in such a case.

I understand that it's not MTS content, per se. I guess I'm just thinking of us as a group. So when I think of us, I think of us as MTS members. Goofy, yes?

And yes, that's what I mean by 'other sites.' I will do that then. Thanks.

JustListen14
30th Sep 2014, 1:21 AM
The stand still mod might not ever be removed:
http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/61818_140929200809ScreenShot1958.png

Because, gee- renaming the package file means Vinyl can claim to have made it! NOT. Compare Shimrod's description to Vinyl's. Almost the same word for word - there is no way that 2 different creators happened to write almost word for word the same description. So leaving out a few words and the file name change means absolutely nothing. Vinyl did NOT create that mod. Steal much?

Now I haz a question for TS4 creators who would know: If 2 different people create a mod that does the exact same thing (changes the exact same resource) would both packages be identical if opened with s4pe? Instance numbers and everything?

Alright guys, I really have to go now... on the brink of ZzZz...

I will look into that mustluvcatz, I was focussing on all the content I shared tonight, I didn't consider other people may have shared content that doesn't belong to them. I'll look into that tomorrow, and if you're right I will remove it from our server, the description etc....

JustListen14
30th Sep 2014, 1:22 AM
What utter bullshit. If you have any content at all that wasn't produced/created by one of your members,
you should take it down unless you've received explicit permission to post it. See how easy that is?

Hopefully, it's too late. There's going to be a rush of formal complaints hitting your provider's email in the next day.
It's been over three days, so I'm figuring there's at least 12 folks who will be sending theirs off tonight.

ooops. I guess you shoulda spent this time removing the offending material instead of making excuses and pretending to cooperate. :rofl:

I have no idea who that is....

This account "JustListen14" and Melines account are the only two accounts as far as I am aware of that can speak for S4F.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 1:25 AM
Now I haz a question for TS4 creators who would know: If 2 different people create a mod that does the exact same thing (changes the exact same resource) would both packages be identical if opened with s4pe? Instance numbers and everything?

They might be identical. Or they might not be. For XML tuning, you'd most probably see a difference (if there is one) in the actual XML text, not in the instance numbers (those NEED to be identical for the whole thing to work, if it's an override like your example).

But with most XML mods -- at least with overrides -- the actual edit you make to the file is pretty minimal; it's figuring out which file/s need/s to be edited in exactly which way that is the main part of the work.

One way to deal with this would be to include the creator's name in a comment. Not that that wouldn't be editable (it's just a text file after all), but people who are just copying probably can't even tell an XML comment from actual code.

And going to the trouble of opening every resource just to edit out a credit would be .. a little silly, since every serious creator will post which resources they've edited anyway (to avoid conflicts) and once you know that, it's quite simple to make the same mod yourself. Takes about the same time as removing the credits.

Anyhow, it shouldn't be necessary to "copy-protect" mods that way since anyone who is not a total asshat would ASK FIRST before uploading stuff.

mustluvcatz
30th Sep 2014, 1:35 AM
@plasticbox - thanks for the explanation and it's what I figured. Too bad there isn't a way to tell the difference just by looking in s4pe without doing much more than that. (I can recolor, I can mesh but I don't know the first thing about XML tuning.)

Question for JustHappening (if he hasn't been banned): Does the user name KandanceKiss44 mean anything to you? Oh, another question: Do you like socks? (That was a bit tongue in cheek but I won't apologize for my cheekiness.)

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 1:51 AM
@plasticbox - thanks for the explanation and it's what I figured. Too bad there isn't a way to tell the difference just by looking in s4pe without doing much more than that. (I can recolor, I can mesh but I don't know the first thing about XML tuning.)

If you downloaded that mod and want to know whether it's different from Shimrods, post it here and I can take a look?

eagleFMJ
30th Sep 2014, 2:41 AM
Being the mod-crazy nut that I am, I have been around to every sim mod site I can find in fact I probably browse and check about 20 or so on a daily basis. I would like to comment about this Sims4Forum site.

Now I used to play sims 3 years ago and MTS was a place I visited regularly, then I quit playing forgot about all the cool mods sites. Picked up sims4 on release day, then started going mod-wacky again, I started searching in google for mod sites and stumbled upon Sims4Forum along with a few others. At first there wasn't any fee or waiting 5 dam minutes after one download (seriously wtf dude), then as weeks went on I noticed changes, so I said screw this site and started searching for more sites, low and behold I found my way back to MTS (YAY) which is the best sims mod site on the net hands down. Out all of the mod sites I have found Sims4Forum is by far the worst, especially with the greedy owner charging 7 to 10 $ for nude skins? or 5$ a month, lol and the 5 minute wait time, what a load of shit.

The main problem I see here is there are people like me that stumble upon this site (before they ever find great places like MTS) and they figure "Oh I hate this wait time BS, guess 5$ isn't too much" and some of the content they are wanting to download is indeed peoples work from this site, and this is just flat out WRONG. If your going to charge, host your own creators content and do as you wish, leave MTS and other top sim mod sites out of your sleazy money scheme!

end rant/

eagle

mustluvcatz
30th Sep 2014, 2:43 AM
@plasticbox - Sorry it took a while. No links were showing for me after dragging/dropping to modyourpanties and no other pages were loading for me (ethernet cable is going bad). So I stopped to make pizzelle ice cream sandwiches.. because who in their right mind wouldn't want ice cream and hot fudge sauce sandwiched between 2 vanilla pizzelles? Then I had to clean myself up thanks to melting ice cream and hot fudge sauce getting everywhere, lol.

Since no links would show for me still, it's on my Box account: (removed link) It's a fairly fresh copy of it because I wanted to see if it was still there in it's original form. I still have the file I downloaded earlier today (about 12 hours ago) if you want that one just to see.

edit: removed link to file, if the file gets taken down at Sims4Forum I still have it if it's needed for any reason.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 3:18 AM
The XML in those is identical. Regarding the diff between these and the original, what I said above ("the actual edit you make to the file is pretty minimal") does not apply -- there's a boatload of changes (this is a JAZZ file not the XML tuning I was having in mind when I said that), mostly deletions and setting "true" to "false" umpteen bazillion times over almost 2.000 lines of code.

Technically that doesn't prove anything, but in this context it certainly smells funny.


e: attaching a screenshot to give you an idea of what that looks like -- left is the original EA file, right is one of the mods. The pink stuff is what is present in the EA version and removed in the mod, yellow-brownish means lines are changed. I have no idea whether technically one could do this differently to arrive at the same result (not wanting their sims to hop around in CAS is probably something a lot of people want, so just the fact that somebody else makes a mod with the same goal would't be surprising per se).

TamiraA
30th Sep 2014, 3:28 AM
Since no links would show for me still, it's on my Box account: https://app.box.com/s/y56192tvg8ubag299diy It's a fairly fresh copy of it because I wanted to see if it was still there in it's original form. I still have the file I downloaded earlier today (about 12 hours ago) if you want that one just to see.

I hope you don't mind. I got curious and downloaded that file too. I did an MD5/SHA checksum comparison between the two files. For people not familiar with it, this is the method to verify the download/transferred file is exactly the same as the original file. If a single bit/byte was changed/different the checksum would be different. I used a simple online one (you can try it too http://onlinemd5.com/) to compare the Vinyl and Shimrod101 files. They are exactly the same.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 3:31 AM
I ran a diff in np++, see edit above =)

I dunno, maybe poke that Vinyl person a bit to see whether they understand the code? (My bet: they don't.)

mustluvcatz
30th Sep 2014, 4:35 AM
@TamiraA - thank you for mentioning that. I know a little more about MD5 checksum than I do XML (which I know nothing about)- I know enough to be pretty sure that 2 files that are exactly the same should have the same MD5 checksum.

That said: @plasticbox - thank you for that screenshot. Now I know about notepad++. Just to see what would happen, I opened one of the packages and made a simple edit. Then I replaced the file in s4pe. Checking via the site TamiraA linked to, this is the result of my new, edited package: C1D317D1CF36BAAD1EF6DCCB392B86C8. Both Shimrod's package and Vinyl's: 0B87FBA1D77B100D6E9668DDF410FF1A So it looks like it's safe to say that those 2 files are the same file.

Why am I so interested in this one file out of all those on Sims4Forum? Because the "creator" did what seems to be a simple name change and, by doing so, is claiming to have made the mod. Then, like I said earlier, the post is almost the same.. just a few words are left out. Copy/pasting a post like Chris did is one thing. Claiming to have made something that you DIDN'T make is stealing- no doubt about it- and yes, that pisses me off. Especially since Shimrod has made it clear that he doesn't want anything of his on that forum ever. (Not that other creators haven't! This is a bit different in my opinion because it's not a straight up copy/paste of a download post here. The "creator" in this case actually made the effort to try to deceive others into thinking they did create the file.)

edit: turns out I didn't even need to export/make a change/import/save. All that was needed was to export and import the same file back into the package. Result: D04CE8C1FB8B8E47F7B34CE8163321E1 (exported file is: S4_02D5DF13_00000000_D8D5C1186BA97FDC%%+JAZZ.jazz)
edit 2: And let's not forget the fact that the download there says "This resource has been removed and is no longer available for download." Obviously it's still there.

FifthAce2007
30th Sep 2014, 8:08 AM
adding:
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-dead-trees-female-back-tattoo.106/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-black-alien-eyes-by-lukeproduction.63/
http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-smaller-censor-mosaic-mod.157/

@FifthAce2007 : wanted to let you know that your wedding dresses are back up: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses.105/ can't tell whether downloadable or not, doesn't say anything about it on the site.
Not sure if you're okay with that.

Getting annoyed now. :rolleyes:

No I'm not happy with it, thanks for letting me know.

Upon first visiting that link I recieved a logged in error so decided it was time to register, after registering I recieved a permissions error which led me to the conclusion that the content is hidden behind the subscription.

I've emailed the host again:

Hello.

I have been made aware that the content I reported as copyright infringement has been restored after being removed.

http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses.105/

Although what is worse this time is they appear to be hidden behind a subscription, which is an even greater violation than last time.
Please ensure this is taken care of permanently or my next course of action will be to file a DMCA and WIPO violation.


Regards,

D J Sibthorp (fifthace2007)
September 30, 2014 [08:04]
Dawn Studios

Will let you know of any response.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 8:09 AM
You are awesome.

FifthAce2007
30th Sep 2014, 8:17 AM
Oh dear...his payment processor is PayPal.

Well they've just had an email fired at them about this now as well :rofl:


Good Morning.

I want to make you aware that a website that makes use of PayPal for it's subscriptions are involved in an illegal activity of copyright infringement.

The website in quiestion is here: http://sims4forum.com/

The content in question can be found here: http://sims4forum.com/custom-content/sims-4-spash-of-colour-wedding-dresses.105/

Although it is hidden behind registration and subscription pages.

This content belongs to ME, and can be found in it's original form here: http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=534715

It has already been posted illegally on this site once and I contacted their webhost to have it removed, but after a few days it has re-appeared. I have contacted their webhost again asking them to deal with it however I am sure that PayPal doesn't want to be seen to be involved in copyright infringement which is why I am informing you of this.

I am not the only person who's work has been stolen and redistributed on this website without consent.

Regards,

D Sibthorp
Dawn Studios

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 8:33 AM
When talking to Paypal, it might make sense to include these as well

sims4forum.com/custom-content/categories/the-sims-4.1/
sims4forum.com/custom-content/categories/adult-sims-4-mods.16/

because

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that [..] relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods (e) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (f) items that are considered obscene, (g) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (h) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US


Same goes for EA, as far as I know. Not sure who to contact there (their legal department only takes care of their own sites, for all I can tell) but I've already asked for pointers.

FifthAce2007
30th Sep 2014, 8:36 AM
When talking to Paypal, it might make sense to include these as well

sims4forum.com/custom-content/categories/the-sims-4.1/
sims4forum.com/custom-content/categories/adult-sims-4-mods.16/

because



https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US


Same goes for EA, as far as I know. Not sure who to contact there (their legal department only takes care of their own sites) but I've already asked for pointers.

Good point. I'll add those to the conversation when they reply. Thanks

Volvenom
30th Sep 2014, 8:37 AM
Oh dear...his payment processor is PayPal.

Well they've just had an email fired at them about this now as well :rofl:

That is great, can I join that one? ... I didn't find my lot back up again last night though, but I might not be checking the right place.

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 8:39 AM
Thankfully we LITERALLY have our buttcracks unspeakables covered when it comes to that .. :lol:

plasticbox
30th Sep 2014, 10:25 AM
Some screenshots just in case .. I'm attaching them all unedited, so the file creation dates will hopefully stay intact. Sorry about the backasswards sort order .. they're numbered. =P

- FifthAce, taken yesterday when I saw this post (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4552965#post4552965) (had been removed and was back up)
- Helianthea, taken 28/09 21:05 CET
- Shimrod/Townies, taken 29/09 01:04 (1-3) and 19:10 (4-5) (had been removed upon my inquiry (because uncredited/outdated) and then restored, still uncredited/outdated, see here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4551403#post4551403)/here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4551892#post4551892)/here (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=4552338#post4552338) -- permission from the actual creator was only sought (and declined) *after* that)

So even though right now it LOOKS LIKE a bunch of "external uploads" are finanally gone, creators may want to be wary.

FifthAce2007
30th Sep 2014, 11:12 AM
Thanks, that will come in handy as I can't get to that page now, I just get the permissions error page.

Site seems to have been taken offline/deleted ;)

leefish
30th Sep 2014, 11:16 AM
It says they are updating the forum software; XenForo released a security update on the 16th September; it is probably that.

PS - In some circles they call me the Snipefish :)

FifthAce2007
30th Sep 2014, 11:20 AM
Ahh ok. Will check back later then. At the moment the index.html page just lists the content of the public folder for that domain, which usually means the index.html page is missing.

If they are updating could be why...although most forums still function just redirect to a message...

tsyokawe
30th Sep 2014, 12:16 PM
"We are upgrading the forum software. Please bear with us!"

If they were shut down, would there be a different sort of error page?

Of course...seems an odd coincidence that his entire site is down without any notice whatsoever...
Wouldn't someone running a community site give his members a heads-up so they'd know it was coming?

eta: I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he's had a major spike in traffic in the last few hours.
Personally, in the last 2 hours, I've probably checked 7 or 8 times to see if he's shut down.
Multiply that by the number of creators he's stolen from, etc, etc...

I hope that the creators he stole from still file their formal complaints.
I wouldn't put it past him to temporarily shut himself down for upgrades just to give folks the impression
that his behavior has already been dealt with.


btw, I've only seen the one page with the message that they're upgrading.
I haven't seen any of the other messages mentioned this morning.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b485/tsyokawe/sims4forumownercaughtred-handed_zps86f1a7e1.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/tsyokawe/media/sims4forumownercaughtred-handed_zps86f1a7e1.jpg.html)

Helianthea
30th Sep 2014, 12:19 PM
If he were a responsible siteowner: absolutely.
However, since he stated himself that he had been too lazy to inform his members that the time limit between downloads had been removed for days (see page 4), this would be typical for him imo

edit: regarding the below - getting the same.
Site's been switching between blank forums & database error for a while, I think twice or thrice, and for about the past hour, it's been database error only.

FifthAce2007
30th Sep 2014, 1:15 PM
See I'm not getting that. Initially I was getting an empty server "index of" display but now I am getting a database error:

An unexpected database error occurred. Please try again later.