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Darizuka
8th Mar 2014, 6:25 AM
Well...
I Just want to let everyone know
that... In regards to Batman (for those who dont know)

There is a paradox universe in which Bruce Wayne died the night the Wayne's were mugged in the alley
and Thomas Wayne became The Batman
and Martha Wayne became The Joker.

The story is quite dark and much more interesting.. but sadly its a short story arc involving The Flash and other Justice League characters.

but yeah.. there's some new insight for you all :D

oh.. and in the normal universe of Batman.. Commissioner Gordon's 1st son; Jim Gordon Jr. is a psychopathic serial killer.. :3

VerDeTerre
8th Mar 2014, 7:40 AM
There is a paradox universe in which Bruce Wayne died the night the Wayne's were mugged in the alley
Did you mean parallel? A paradox is a seeming contradiction such as "giant shrimp".

I did not know any that! I'm not well versed in the Batman universe story. It's very interesting!

I wonder...should this post be in the other media section? That seems to cover books, music, and movies.

Darizuka
8th Mar 2014, 8:13 AM
Did you mean parallel? A paradox is a seeming contradiction such as "giant shrimp".

I did not know any that! I'm not well versed in the Batman universe story. It's very interesting!

I wonder...should this post be in the other media section? That seems to cover books, music, and movies.

oh.. oops
i posted this in wrong section then..
well yeah xD but people say the whole "Flashpoint" story arc is a paradox

but its pretty good read
i mean im not that into reading non-manga comics.. but the whole Joker being Bruce's mother; was too good to pass :D
and it didnt disappoint.
quite gruesome aswell.. and brutal..

VerDeTerre
8th Mar 2014, 5:07 PM
I'm not a manga fan. What you described is interesting to me. Is this fan fiction?

hugbug993
8th Mar 2014, 8:32 PM
It sounds like an Elseworlds story. They're released by DC, but they're not canon. It's a way for people to explore themes that they couldn't in the canon universe, like Superman: Red Son, where Superman landed in Soviet Russia instead of Kansas.

Also, it would only be a paradox if time travel were involved. So if Batman traveled back in time and caused his younger self's death, then it would be a paradox. Otherwise, it's probably not one.

simmer22
8th Mar 2014, 9:03 PM
I think they mean a parallel universe, not a paradox.

In a parallel universe you can have the same people, but people take different actions than in the "original" universe, and other things can happen. Since they're parallel, different things can happen in the different universes at the same time. Without some travel method between them, you'll not end up with any paradoxes, because htey wil never meet.

When a paradox happens, something that can't happen happens, and causes an endless loop (such as "you're born, you go back in time and kill your grandfather before he meets your gran, because of that you're not born so you can't kill your grandfather, and if your grandfather lives then you're born so you can kill your grandfather, etc.")

If the people from the parallel unverse meet "themselves" in the other universe, then it's still not quite a paradox, because the two different versions of the same person are no longer the same people.

It gets confusing from there on.

And I've obviously watched too much Doctor Who... :rolleyes: (then again, it's one of the best 101 TV-show on time travel/paradoxes/parallel universes).

Darizuka
10th Mar 2014, 1:27 AM
I think they mean a parallel universe, not a paradox.

In a parallel universe you can have the same people, but people take different actions than in the "original" universe, and other things can happen. Since they're parallel, different things can happen in the different universes at the same time. Without some travel method between them, you'll not end up with any paradoxes, because htey wil never meet.

When a paradox happens, something that can't happen happens, and causes an endless loop (such as "you're born, you go back in time and kill your grandfather before he meets your gran, because of that you're not born so you can't kill your grandfather, and if your grandfather lives then you're born so you can kill your grandfather, etc.")

If the people from the parallel unverse meet "themselves" in the other universe, then it's still not quite a paradox, because the two different versions of the same person are no longer the same people.

It gets confusing from there on.

And I've obviously watched too much Doctor Who... :rolleyes: (then again, it's one of the best 101 TV-show on time travel/paradoxes/parallel universes).

but wouldnt this classify as a paradox; because the flash went into a time paradox to meet the batman of the world as thomas wayne and not bruce wayne, because bruce wayne died in the shooting unlike the normal story which the parents died instead
thus being paradoxical?-ish?

simmer22
10th Mar 2014, 2:04 AM
I don't know which story we're talking about here, but it still sounds more parallel world to me (without knowing any details). Going back in time and changing history so much that it influences the present so that certain things leading up to the time-travel won't happen - that is a paradox, but just going back in time and tecnically not change any history at all is not really a paradox. It's just time-travel.

A paradox is where you get a wheel going around and around with "if A happens, then B happens, but if B happens, then A can't happen, and then B can't happen, etc."

If Bruce Waye as Batman went back and hindered the killer before he could kill Bruce's parents, then that would probably have been more of a paradox, because his parents would live, he would live, and he wouldn't become Batman because he basically wouldn't be so screwed-up. Which leaves us with a paradox, because Bruce wouldn't be batman, and couldn't go back in time, hence he couldn't save himself and his parents.

If someone else went back and hindered the killer, there could still be a paradox, such as if the person going back in time knew Bruce only as Batman, and by doing all this it would ultimately lead to him not knowing Batman, which would mean he wouldn't go back in time to save Bruce, and so on.

There could also just be a change of history, without a paradox. Say, if someone who had nothing to do with Bruce or Batman went back in time to change something different, and happened to hinder the killer, history might just change because Bruce wouldn't become Batman, but it would not be a paradox because you don't get the whole circular thing.

Megido
10th Mar 2014, 11:34 PM
It's an alternative universe but the AU did feature in a film called Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox, so I can see where the confusion might come from, but the scenario where Bruce Wayne dies instead of his parents is an alternate universe. I'm not a fan of Flashpoint/New 52 so I can't tell you if that particular Batman AU actually does involve a paradox later on.

A paradox is something contradicts itself by its nature. For example, the classic one in time travel stories is the Grandfather Paradox, going back in time and killing your own grandfather. If your own grandfather never existed then you never existed, therefore could not have killed your own grandfather and therefore you do exist, ad nauseum.