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View Full Version : New theme - what went wrong, what went right, and next steps.


Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 9:22 AM
Hi All,

TL;DR: Themes + code reverted. New style will go live eventually. Nothing to see here, carry on.

So the news yesterday was the introduction of a new theme here on the site. This garnered a LOT of feedback from users, with some nice breakdowns, some good constructive posts, and a whole bunch of polarised opinions thrown in for good measure.

So what went wrong? Well, firstly, and this is a valid point - not enough end-user feedback was gotten during the construction process. Secondly, the colour schemes chosen weren't "good enough" for a lot of people. Thirdly, the layout of the download browse pages and the member profiles came in for a lot of flak. Lastly, there seemed to be some client and server side performance issues. All of these I will be addressing. But the main point is that I've reverted the entire site *and* the codebase back to the old version. It's just not possible to run both at the same time so this was the only option.

What went right? Well, I believe that HTML5 and CSS3 *are* here to stay, same with the larger thumbnails and responsive design. A lot of you *did* like the new styles, but enough of you where unhappy that I've rolled the design and code back.

So, whats next? Well, for one, I'm going to be providing an alternative site at http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/?styleid=40 - this will be constantly updated with the latest bleeding edge code the same as we have on the staff only server.

Next, and I want to stress this - the old themes *will* be going away eventually. Once Bootstrap has been more thoroughly tested and tweaked then I'll announce a changeover date and get more feedback at that time.

Lastly, I realise that this was a shock to a lot of you and that it probably wasn't the correct way to do this. I'd like to apologise for the hard cut, and rest assured that next time it'll be a bit more gradual. I'd also like to thank a lot of you for being level headed and providing bug reports and constructive criticism. I've archived the thread for now, but I'll be reaching out to specific people with more questions and feedback. To those of you who played with alternate themes, I hope you can understand the ease and power of the new layout in how quickly and easily it is to style.

So the priorities for now are to tweak, adjust and generally find both a set of colour schemes *and* a layout that satisfies the majority of people (I realise that not everybody will like any new changes), but also incorporate some of the old layout features like more "row" based downloads. I'll also be adjusting some of the client side javascript so that it runs smoother on lower power computers.

Thanks for listening. Please do try and keep comments constructive.

Delphy

ETA: I've setup a Bootstrap feedback forum here: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/forumdisplay.php?f=671 You can give specific feedback there. Theres also an input thread to do with postbits.

leefish
15th May 2013, 9:32 AM
Thanks for the update.

I am using Cyborg (by far my fave)

simkill
15th May 2013, 10:20 AM
Well Delphy I was pretty shocked to see the new layout but, I am happy that there will be a change. best of luck to the new changes. Also Cyborg theme=win :)

Ps. I didn't play on the site very much while it was changed but I did notice that the link/button to switch between Sims 2 and 3 and eventually 4 should prob be more noticeable. I still sometimes find my self finding a really nice outfit only to realize at the last minute Im looking in the Sims 2 section lol.

LallaBelle
15th May 2013, 10:23 AM
I'm using Cyborg at the moment, it's a bit dark - but it's one of the few layouts that isn't quite so pale/making my eyes swim. Still I know with something like this it's not something that's always going to please everyone.

A little suggestion with the theme 'Readable', since it's geared towards people who'd prefer a larger font size it may/may not be helpful to perhaps have a more muted colour for the background of posts? Since black text on white background even at a larger size isn't always good if trying to avoid eye strain.

http://i40.tinypic.com/sy6nt1.png
Also I was just wondering what this feature(on the 'Edit Profile' page) does exactly, does it just change the look of the user page or the site as a whole?

Psychosim
15th May 2013, 10:23 AM
Thanks for your hard work to keep this place enjoyable! :) I'm sure all the technical bits of the new site are top-notch.

I didn't have a chance to read any of the feedback, sorry if this has been mentioned before, but a small change I'd really appreciate would be the User Tools in the right corner again. It's always been like the public site on the left and my little private corner on the right, that makes the most sense to me. Having a widescreen, it's also quite a change if I have to move to the other side now. :lol:

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 10:29 AM
I'm using Cyborg at the moment, it's a bit dark - but it's one of the few layouts that isn't quite so pale/making my eyes swim. Still I know with something like this it's not something that's always going to please everyone.

A little suggestion with the theme 'Readable', since it's geared towards people who'd prefer a larger font size it may/may not be helpful to perhaps have a more muted colour for the background of posts? Since black text on white background even at a larger size isn't always good if trying to avoid eye strain.

http://i40.tinypic.com/sy6nt1.png
Also I was just wondering what this feature(on the 'Edit Profile' page) does exactly, does it just change the look of the user page or the site as a whole?

I just took Readable from Bootswatch.com, but I can certainly customise it. :)

That feature on edit profile is for users to upload custom Bootstrap CSS similar to the old style "custom profile colours". It's currently not replacing the entire site, but thats actually just a matter of a couple of code changes and it'd work. So, thats a feature I can offer later (make your own CSS).

Thanks for the feedback.

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 10:31 AM
Thanks for your hard work to keep this place enjoyable! :) I'm sure all the technical bits of the new site are top-notch.

I didn't have a chance to read any of the feedback, sorry if this has been mentioned before, but a small change I'd really appreciate would be the User Tools in the right corner again. It's always been like the public site on the left and my little private corner on the right, that makes the most sense to me. Having a widescreen, it's also quite a change if I have to move to the other side now. :lol:

Yeah I actually tried in the very first versions to get User Tools on the right but it just wasn't working properly. The Horizontal Menu code just wasn't working out to float that particular element over there. I do agree that it's a bit weird where it is now. I'll probably have to work on that menu anyway since it has some issues in IE9 apparently, but also has custom CSS overrides that don't pick up the style changes properly.

residenteviloutbreak
15th May 2013, 10:42 AM
Why are the old themes being listed in the theme changer if we cant even use them?

joandsarah77
15th May 2013, 10:54 AM
I currently have the old theme, so you can use it.

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 11:02 AM
Why are the old themes being listed in the theme changer if we cant even use them?

To annoy you, of course. Seriously though, no idea what your compalint is here, since you *can* use the old styles. Just select them from the dropdown at the bottom where it always was.

missy harries
15th May 2013, 11:19 AM
I really liked it! People are just generally stubborn and don't like change :p
I was waiting all day for the birthday announcement and when I finally got a glimpse I had to go to bed so I didn't get get to have a good look around with it (boo).
Maybe you should try some planned 'beta day's' with it to get plenty of user feedback and iron it all out, just make sure to announce it waaaay in advance if you do though :lol:
It still looks funky now :anime:

Yenkas
15th May 2013, 11:36 AM
Wonderful decision. It was too sudden for a lot of people - if I'm being honest, myself included - and this is a better solution. I do understand the layout has to change; it hasn't been updated in years. I like that we're able to keep track with how the new layout goes along. I wish you luck with the revisions!

christmas fear
15th May 2013, 11:39 AM
delphy.. would it be out of your way to create a mobile version of the site? the new layout isn't great on mobile atm.

DeeDawg
15th May 2013, 11:41 AM
Oh noes. No disrespect, but I've always found the old/current themes a bit cheezy, so the fact that we would get the power of the Bootstrap framework just made me smile. As I'm a webdeveloper by profession I see the default Bootstrap themes (including those from Bootswatch) all the time, so they're getting a bit old too, but hey that's just me.

It would be really awesome if you give us the opportunity to style the whole site ourselves.
But either way, thanks Delphy! :)

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 11:44 AM
Maybe you should try some planned 'beta day's' with it to get plenty of user feedback and iron it all out, just make sure to announce it waaaay in advance if you do though :lol:
It still looks funky now :anime:

I'll probably do just that - get more exposure for it and more feedback. But i'd do it as a news post thats optional, not forced. :)

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 11:45 AM
delphy.. would it be out of your way to create a mobile version of the site? the new layout isn't great on mobile atm.

I've been testing it a lot with mobile devices. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than the old view. What, specifically, don't you feel is great?

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 11:47 AM
Oh noes. No disrespect, but I've always found the old/current themes a bit cheezy, so the fact that we would get the power of the Bootstrap framework just made me smile. As I'm a webdeveloper by profession I see the default Bootstrap themes (including those from Bootswatch) all the time, so they're getting a bit old too, but hey that's just me.

It would be really awesome if you give us the opportunity to style the whole site ourselves.
But either way, thanks Delphy! :)

Styling the entire site yourself is definatly on the cards. After a lot of discussion in chat, I'm probably going to do a specific MTS Bootstrap version with more typography options (which as you probably know are really limited in Bootstrap), especially since the post bits are going to be revamped. :)

And yes, I know what you mean about standard bootstrap too!

Inge Jones
15th May 2013, 11:51 AM
I couldn't spot anything I would usually use that didn't work for me, as such. It was of course somewhat disorienting and obviously one's navigation is slowed down at first as you automatically tread more carefully and have to make sure things are still there (they might be moved to a different part of the screen). It did seem slower at loading each page, but I put that down to not having anything cached any longer, as presumably all previous cached material would have been considered expired because of the new interface,

TheTiffy
15th May 2013, 12:20 PM
I like the Schoolhouse theme. The ones that are almost all white are painful to look at, so the ivory and light blue helps tone it down a bit. I'd appreciate if you'd keep at least one calmly colored theme to chose from.

The newer layout reminds me a lot of Pinterest and Pinterest has always felt a little bit sloppy with the images being of varying size and out of alignment. That's OCD for you. If there is a way to present the items in an aligned grid pattern, it would probably calm a lot of people down.

residenteviloutbreak
15th May 2013, 12:23 PM
To annoy you, of course. Seriously though, no idea what your compalint is here, since you *can* use the old styles. Just select them from the dropdown at the bottom where it always was.

Oh?

Well it tells me this exact error:
"There seems to have been a slight problem with the Mod The Sims database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience."


So no, you cant.

leefish
15th May 2013, 12:27 PM
I logged on as a "non-moderator" and could use the themes, joandsarah can use the themes. Which theme exactly are you trying to use?

~MadameButterfly~
15th May 2013, 12:29 PM
Bless you and good luck! I don't envy the work you are putting in, but I hope everything comes out the way you want for all concerned.

(I also enjoyed Schoolhouse for the neutral background colors.)

katalina522
15th May 2013, 12:32 PM
Eep -- this keeps happening when I go to the downloaded page (only on the original site; not in the bootstrap version):
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-44hUYthWks8/UZNxmSL84uI/AAAAAAAABAg/_4rBRIraS3w/s800/erp.jpg

christmas fear
15th May 2013, 12:33 PM
I've been testing it a lot with mobile devices. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than the old view. What, specifically, don't you feel is great?

just the format not fitting too well on my mobile internet.

leefish
15th May 2013, 12:35 PM
@vkatalina522 - you need to select one of the old themes - we can only have one codebase running at anytime. :( No bootstrap on www, are selectable in the menu but a tad screwy.

katalina522
15th May 2013, 12:45 PM
@leesester - ahhh, there it goes, thank you! (and i was referring to the bootstrap.mts.info site that Delphy linked somewhere above.)

Which, now that it is reverted and I can actually compare the two, I get why it got a lot of complaints: for all that the sidebar/ad panel took up vertical space in the original layout, it's much easier to see all the important information for each download (thumb, title, category, EPs, creator, comments) in a straight horizontal line, which is the way people read. It's just more straightforward, and having it lined up in a table means no hunting for information. Also, for small screen purposes: with the original layout I can see 6.5 downloads listed vs. four in the new layout.

Menaceman44
15th May 2013, 12:48 PM
I managed to catch a glimpse of the site last night before bed on my Nintendo 3DS. While I know it is not a priority for the site to be viewed on a 3DS, I will point out that it was not possible to log in as clicking on the button only refreshed the page. I believe the Nintendo 3DS uses Opera as it's browser.

ChiK_HeinekeN
15th May 2013, 12:53 PM
Eep -- this keeps happening when I go to the downloaded page (only on the original site; not in the bootstrap version):
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-44hUYthWks8/UZNxmSL84uI/AAAAAAAABAg/_4rBRIraS3w/s800/erp.jpg

It's also happening in bootstrap mode (I have slate on). Also bootstrap mode doesn't work any longer in your profile view...Mine is just white! :( and I tried to edit my profile and it keeps telling me this Basic filename size and name validation failed Also when you go to one of your creations on the top where the screenshots are to supposed to be display it only says screenshots and the amount of pics you have for it. Also the my download page items isn't working properly, I tried to change the amount of download to be display and keeps rearranging them. And when you point one of the buttons in any download (ex thanks) it appears a very bright/shiny white box but you can't read anything. Hope this will help and thank you Delphy for all your hard work :) :gjob:

EDIT: I just realized that my profile page being just white it's not only me, it's the profile of the creators :faceslap: ( if this makes sense ) I like the new way in your creators profile view!!!

Ella:)
15th May 2013, 12:59 PM
I'm glad to see the old one back :) It was a big shock to see it changed.

joandsarah77
15th May 2013, 1:13 PM
Katalina522 I had a similar problem today and it spread from MTS, to pandora and Youtube and Photobucket, a restart did nothing so I Googled Firefox muck ups and found a page explaining I may need to clear my caches. I'm sure all browsers would have something similar under advanced options/network. Worked like a charm.

Legislacerator
15th May 2013, 1:26 PM
Thank you for making it possible to switch back to the old theme. Seriously. I know it won't be permanent, but it's nice to have the option for now. I admit I was actually getting used to the new code, probably because I was using the Flatstrap theme so everything was well...squared and pointy. The curved corners on everything were throwing me off (a weird aesthetic preference, but there you go.).

I don't think that suddenly flipping the switch on the new style was really the way to go, since a lot of people (myself included) had the immediate lurching gut reaction of "OH GOD WHAT IS THIS NEW THING GET IT AWAY". From what I read in the old thread, there was an option to switch to Bootstrap for a while before it was implemented, but it was tucked away at the bottom of the frontpage, and never announced. Now, I personally hate change, and can't stand it when sites suddenly overhaul their layouts, but I (and I'm sure many other people) adapted much better when there was a period where I could switch to a beta of the new layout for a month or two before it went live for everyone. I think making a news announcement, and sticking a big "Beta Test the New Layout" button at the top of the front page, would have probably been the way to go. That way everyone would have gotten the heads up, and have had time to adjust. :)

ETA: Also, as someone else mentioned, and as I believe I mentioned on the other thread - is there any way on the Bootstrap layout to have all the boxes on the Downloads section the same size/height? I imagine it would involve forcing thumbnails to all scale to the same or similar dimensions? I commented earlier about how having all the different sized boxes looks messy and disorganized, and I still stand by that. (It also loaded funny for me, with boxes overlapping each other before the page had fully loaded) I get if you're trying to go for a Pinterest-style look but...well, I personally hate how Pinterest lays out their page, but I also think it works for what they do, which is more or less images-only. Doesn't work quite as well for dispersing a good amount of information, like a thumbnail, description, username, date, etc.

daniexmachina
15th May 2013, 1:31 PM
When the change first happened, search was working for me, now it is not bringing up images and it's written over itself. Though I tried the search over on Bootstraps and that does work.

carlydunham
15th May 2013, 1:34 PM
for now i have converted back to tgh hello kitty theme as a type one diabetic even with a 23 inch monitor i found the other theme too hard to read

Kojichan
15th May 2013, 1:43 PM
With having the other site paired up with the old, it'll be easy to do the End-user testing. Usability is a huge issue. It's the difference between winning or losing customers. However, this is a creative repository that requires the uses of adverts. But, the same rules apply.

Obviousness, usefulness, easy to quickly scan... etc.

While the masonry is cool and nifty looking, it's hard to easily scan. Multiple-sized thumbnails don't necessarily mean you NEED to use the masonry effect, you can still tile horizontally fine with different dimensions. Set max height and widths that your thumbnail generator will create.

First things first, I believe layout and function are more important than "How cool this looks". Worry about design elements AFTER you have a working framework. Concentrate on what people are familiar with.

Your user base are mostly native English readers, thus follow the LtR, TtB. (Left to Right, Top to Bottom) rule. Your "hotspots" for people scanning things will ALWAYS be the top left corner. then the top right, followed by bottom left. The bottom right is RARELY ever looked at, so don't stick important information there, like the search bar.

Speaking of search bars, that should be near the top as it's the 2nd thing people look for on a website if they cannot find / use the navigation bar easily. There's a reason most shops have them close to the top.

Work with a base font size of 16px. This is the default font size browsers are using without being tweaked. Bigger monitors don't necessarily mean you can use smaller fonts. I have a 1920x1280 monitor, and I sit comfortably 1.5ft away from the monitor. It's hard to read 14px font. If you want, and people WILL complain, use jQuery text/font size changing implementation. That way people can choose a font style that suits their own reading preferences.

You're wanting to work with Fluidity and cross-browser implementation? The font size won't matter if you structure the rest of the site properly. HTML5 and CSS3 are defactor standards now, yes, but that doesn't mean anything if what you have is just a pile of neat looking gadgets.

Good luck! :)

Fivey
15th May 2013, 1:50 PM
Thank you for letting us temporarily go back to the old theme. I admit I was getting used to the new one, though. I'll switch back to it once a larger variety of themes comes in.

Speaking of which, I generated some CSS color schemes. Where do I go about sharing them?

missyhissy
15th May 2013, 1:51 PM
Playing with the new themes took up way more of my time than is sane :lol: But I'm liking the new layout! I must have missed the announcement yesterday, so it was nice to see something new when I checked in! :beer:

joandsarah77
15th May 2013, 2:00 PM
Thank you for letting us temporarily go back to the old theme. I admit I was getting used to the new one, though. I'll switch back to it once a larger variety of themes comes in.

Speaking of which, I generated some CSS color schemes. Where do I go about sharing them?

Terrific! I'm not fussy so long as there is something called 'no migraine generating' I'll be happy. :lol:

Psychosim
15th May 2013, 2:17 PM
It's good to know User Tools will go to the right again at some point, thank you! :beer:

RomerJon17
15th May 2013, 2:21 PM
@vkatalina522 - you need to select one of the old themes - we can only have one codebase running at anytime. :( No bootstrap on www, are selectable in the menu but a tad screwy.

I miss the new download layout.. It was pretty cool...
I hope that will come back and I wish we could select any view like, ( List, Contents or Details)

TookaChan
15th May 2013, 2:23 PM
I'm not totally sure how i feel about the newer layout. It's very clean and nice-looking, but something about it feels like it should be on someone's personal blog instead of a download & forum site. It doesn't fit too much in my mind, but that's my personal opinion. I don't like changes very much. :) My favorite thing about this site has always been the layout and how things appeared in the downloads section. It was easy to read & look at & decide what I'm clicking on. With the new one, I feel as though the thumbnails are so big that I have a harder time looking at a lot of things at once and it takes a bit of time. Maybe you can make an option to toggle between bigger and smaller thumbnails in the downloads section to suit that better?

Night Racer
15th May 2013, 2:26 PM
aw man. I got so sad when I logged on and saw the old style was back. :( Bleh.
Thankfully there is a separate link for the new theme hehehe.
Feedback: The new navigation dropdown is great, but a bit jarring and in your face. Is there a way to maybe add a slight gradient to the box, or something, so it isnt as...dosnt look as if its lacking something? or maybe add slight lines or boxes to help separate say download sections | download categories | search | other? OR at least add an animation to it, so it slides out and not -BOOM-
EDIT: also, im not too crazy about the new forum posts layout. The actual posts are way to far to the right, with too much empty wasted space on the left
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/fergiefan12/Untitled-3_zps4472b818.jpg
All that space taken up by the post date seems silly. The actual post should start there.
EDIT 2: wait, its ok now. Wtf. Either it was glitched, or you work super fast Delphy
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/fergiefan12/Untitled-3_zpse6a17fb8.jpg (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/fergiefan12/media/Untitled-3_zpse6a17fb8.jpg.html)

Jaguwar
15th May 2013, 2:30 PM
Eep -- this keeps happening when I go to the downloaded page (only on the original site; not in the bootstrap version):

Yup... that's the "we can't have bootstrap AND the old codebase at the same time" issue Delphy was talking about. You'll have to go old school to get to the downloads properly. :(

hellshock70
15th May 2013, 2:43 PM
Maybe make the site color adjustable? A little personal customization to it. White isn't so bad during the day unless I'm outside but at night I was literally blinded and had to get up and turn on the lights. And it wasn't really even dark here yet. I contemplated grabbing my sunglasses.

katalina522
15th May 2013, 2:50 PM
Maybe make the site color adjustable? A little personal customization to it. White isn't so bad during the day unless I'm outside but at night I was literally blinded and had to get up and turn on the lights. And it wasn't really even dark here yet. I contemplated grabbing my sunglasses.
That's a problem in general, though, due to the rise of glossy screens & to computers using lots of blue hues that resemble daylight. You can get third-party apps to make your screen more night-viewing-friendly. (I personally use f.lux)

justJones
15th May 2013, 2:54 PM
I've been testing it a lot with mobile devices. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than the old view. What, specifically, don't you feel is great?

I for one really like it on mobile pretty much the way it is, except one thing. I wish there was a direct link from the home page to the inbox. It's not a huge deal, but it would be nice if there was something like the envelope. But it's already a vast improvement over the old way on mobile.

ttowntallyho
15th May 2013, 2:54 PM
...I'm going to be providing an alternative site at http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/?styleid=40 - this will be constantly updated with the latest bleeding edge code the same as we have on the staff only server.
So just to be clear (sorry, I'm not that internet savvy and don't understand 'bleeding edge code' and such) this alternative site will be exactly the same as the original MTS site with the same downloads and forums and everything? Meaning, if I bookmark the new site (instead of this one) and post there, it will be like I'm posting on this site?

First world problems but I spent quite some time last night adjusting to the new site, so I don't want to revert back to the old format, just to have adjust AGAIN at a later date. I'd rather just do it all now.

I think the main issue for me (and some others) is that I had *no idea* there was going to be a change. I missed any and every announcement that was posted. Like others have said, if you make a bigger announcement and let people play around and adjust slowly, then there would be lot less bitching and whining.

ButchSims
15th May 2013, 3:12 PM
So just to be clear (sorry, I'm not that internet savvy and don't understand 'bleeding edge code' and such) this alternative site will be exactly the same as the original MTS site with the same downloads and forums and everything? Meaning, if I bookmark the new site (instead of this one) and post there, it will be like I'm posting on this site?
.I can't answer your question, but I can explain that "bleeding edge code" is a slang descriptive phrase, like "brand spanking new". It simply means that new innovations will be considered in the future.

Zirconia Wolf
15th May 2013, 3:22 PM
* Looks around carefully to see if it's safe yet. *

* Determines it might be. *

Well, it seems as though the extremest from both the "Hate Everything New Instantly & Forever" (con-side) and the "OMG! Everything Must Be Made To Look Like Facebook/W8/NewestShinyWebCrap & Has To Work On A Friggen Phone" (pro-side) have finally disappeared - for a little while, at least - so I thought I would post a quick post before everything gets all messed up again & I can't find my way around.

While I personally wasn't/am not real crazy about being forced into "OMG! Sims 3-like Layout" mode I figure it is hardly my place to get all pissy about it 'cause I'm not the one who runs this place on my own free time & as a hobby (something the uber "con" folks should remember) so I will make my peace with the impending *improved* look & move on with my life because there are many other things I have determined to be far more important to me to worry about than a change in a website about a game I adore (Sims 2) that isn't even the primary focus of the website anymore. Life is too dang short for such craziness!

Anyway, personal feelings aside I really wanted to say to both Delphy & Leesester that I thought you guys did an amazing job handling the ridiculous amount of *hot potato* posts yesterday, especially given how many of them seemed more like personal attacks against you rather than constructive feedback about what elements were/were not working from the poster's point of view. You handled that amazingly well (I think I would have lost my patience quite early on) & I wanted to take a moment to say that no matter what I may personally think about the coming *overhaul* you two are very awesome people & doing a terrific job handling what must be a seriously monumental task! (Especially Delphy who must be incredibly sick of staring at HTML code by now! I do not envy you!)

Well I said what I wanted to say, so I shall disappear back into the "Misty Mists of Lurking Mode" & leave you intrepid souls to your respective duties.

Good luck & I hope the new *re-launch* goes much more smoothly!

(P.S. I should say that the "you are awesome" feelings go for all the awesome staff on this site - because you are all awesome - but I thought that a special "shout out" was in order for Delpy & Leesester given what they had to deal with yesterday.)

ChiK_HeinekeN
15th May 2013, 3:22 PM
Yup... that's the "we can't have bootstrap AND the old codebase at the same time" issue Delphy was talking about. You'll have to go old school to get to the downloads properly. :(

I have a question (probably a dumb one but...) What's the point of having the option of choosing the old style and bootstrap if it can't run at the same time? If you choose bootstrap ( either you like it or are adjusting for the future change) but when you go to the download page you have to switch to the old style to see the page properly then, in my opinion, it's a waste of time.

TheTiffy
15th May 2013, 3:24 PM
I'm looking at old versus new side by side and I have noticed a few things, some of which have been mentioned before.

The good:
Some people have said they have to scroll more to get to the regular downloads. The new ad box is small, and the featured downloads take up less space all together. In addition, the category selection box looks smoother and takes less vertical space in the new format. There is less scrolling in the new format.

The not so good:
The search bar really does need to be at the top, as mentioned. And it wouldn't hurt to have one at the top and the bottom.
With the old format, I can see 8 downloads on the screen at once with all information visible, and despite some thumbnails being taller. Whichever is tallest dictates the height of its partner creating an eye-pleasing horizontal alignment. With the new format I can see part of, but not all of 6 entries with the text being cut off of one since the large graphic in the one above it is pushing it off of the page.

The new format almost looks nice except for that horizontal alignment issue, but is slightly less efficient. I personaly take function over form but I can't speak for everyone.

Legislacerator
15th May 2013, 3:29 PM
I have a question (probably a dumb one but...) What's the point of having the option of choosing the old style and bootstrap if it can't run at the same time? If you choose bootstrap ( either you like it or are adjusting for the future change) but when you go to the download page you have to switch to the old style to see the page properly then, in my opinion, it's a waste of time.
If you want to browse the site with Bootstrap enabled and have it working, you have to browse from this url: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/?styleid=40
Otherwise just going to modthesims.com will only work with the classic theme.

M.M.A.A.
15th May 2013, 3:46 PM
Thank you Delphy. We didn't really mean to discourage on improving the website (trust me, its already improved), but its just that we got used to it the way it was that, well, you know... Although, I'm hoping for a better improvement in the improvements. :D

LaurellKH
15th May 2013, 3:57 PM
I still do not have a problem with the appearance of the site no matter where you goes with it. I am more concerned about the content of the site. No one pays attention to me saying over and over there are dead links here being ignored. I want to see all download links in pristine condition.

Let me elaborate further since I get no one agreeing with me on this point: If I look up a mod for, let's say, how to allow toddlers to visit a community lot. And that mod is a very bad broken mod that has messed up everyone's game and is all over comments that it never worked for anyone ever with pages of comments saying, "this is broke my game!," that mod should be REMOVED. Not blacklisted. REMOVED. That way when another mod maker comes along they will not see that mod there and say to themselves, "Oh, I was going to make a mod like that but look some one else already did it!" Then we are stuck with broken mod.

I find downloads from 2005,6,7(?) with message on them saying, "Our database was corrupted this past week, sorry." Six years ago this lot's link was broken yet still it is here on TS2 downloads.

There are so many moderators hired to make sure someone's post is not end up in wrong spot on forum as if that would be end of world if it did. Yet do any of these employees check for faulty links and offer to remove these useless downloads taking up space??? I have heard it said it is so vary hard to qualify to have your download put on this site. But I say it is zillion times harder to get it off this site when it has gone rot!

No one listens to me.

gummilutt
15th May 2013, 4:14 PM
I applaud the fact that you are able to make this decision. It shows a great deal of maturity, and also ability to take feedback and reflect upon what one did right/wrong. An open beta test where users are allowed to be part of shaping the new layout is an excellent way of letting us "newewomgwhatishappening" get used to it slowly, and also have a chance at sharing why we love the site. We all have a reason why we come to this particular site, and that is such a resource to tap into when updating the site.

You were right that I can't see everything at once. Flawed memory, it felt as though I could.

Where do we head for feedback on the new version? Having both available is really helpful, because you can make comparisons and explain more in detail what it is you don't love or do love about either one of the versions. Here, or elsewhere?

@LaurellKH: Isn't there an ever-ongoing project of adding files that were lost when someone states they have them and share? I agree it is kind of annoying to find an item you want and get the message that it was lost ages ago, and still have it be in the list, but I understand why they are left alone. Best of two worlds would be if they could make a sub-category for "chii lost files" where they move all threads that have missing files, so people could easily browse through and see if they have anything that was lost. But that is a lot of work that most likely won't give much results.

ButchSims
15th May 2013, 4:15 PM
A quote from the Site FAQ: "All staff members are volunteers, working on the site in their spare time; and we have quite a small team - generally around twenty or so staff members at any one time."

So, no one is "hired", nor are they "employees". They do this in there spare time, when they can. True, they may be broken links. Perhaps someone who feels so strongly about it could volunteer to take care of those?

TranquilInsanity
15th May 2013, 4:20 PM
I was shocked by the change, had to check my URL at the top because I was in the site earlier yesterday and it looked normal, went in last night and it was different. I was not upset by the change, I actually liked the updated look. I played around with the color changes I like the yellow on purple, I however didn't mess with any themes. I really like the way you did the individual pages for the creators product. It did take me a sec to find the page tab to get to the download (could be slightly more defined), but it didn't deter me from using the page.

My only suggestions, and this is minor and not a complaint. Having taken Graphic design courses, it is harped upon to not use script style fonts because they are harder to read. This is your website and I only visit, but the header fonts used on the new style were a bit less professional looking. Not saying don't bring your artistic flare to the new style, I liked it, but try a more legible typeface for your headers. If the script is your chosen I can live with it, I love this site and it would take an all out shut down for me to stop using it. I feel that in retrospect, the creators should be the main voice of suggestion, and people like me who have never uploaded anything because we are inadequate at creating (not to say I am not trying) or just do not create, should be the lesser voice of reason. I liked it and whatever you do can only make it better.

:gjob: :up: :beer:

Zirconia Wolf
15th May 2013, 4:58 PM
...No one pays attention to me saying over and over there are dead links here being ignored.

...Let me elaborate further since I get no one agreeing with me on this point...

...No one listens to me.

Just for the record let me say that it happens that I do agree with you on both counts (dead/broken links & the never-worked/buggy downloads) & all I can say is that it is completely in the hands of the staff here as to how to deal with such things & they seem to have other priorities. (Not a "judgment" call, just a statement! Please don't hit the nice wolfy! She likes the staff here!)

I did my part for the "broken" link thing once (submitted the working copy of the file I had as per the directions) & as to the stuff that is completely out-dated and/or apparently buggy I have *trained* myself to try & ignore them. I like to believe that such things worked at one point (or else why would they have been allowed on the site in the first place?) & that the fact that they now deemed *useless* or out-dated/buggy is completely out of my hands...erm, paws.

Not much comfort I know, but at least you know you are not completely alone if your frustrations/opinions!

Inge Jones
15th May 2013, 5:13 PM
My only suggestions, and this is minor and not a complaint. Having taken Graphic design courses, it is harped upon to not use script style fonts because they are harder to read.

Well maybe there can be some styles with and some without fancy fonts. I have currently switched to bootstrap amelia and I love its pretty handwriting font.

jje1000
15th May 2013, 5:29 PM
Nice to see some changes, as a website should always be a work in progress.

Speaking purely of function and aesthetics...

- Lack for ordering- it was hard finding what I wanted from the drop down menus- everything looked the same.
- Too much white space- Some coloured boxes around the text should help. It looks a little too spartan right now, and I find my eye wandering everywhere instead of on the important parts!
- Things are too widely spaced out- I shouldn't need to scroll halfway down a page to get to the place where the active threads are (ex. here: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/fd.php?f=561); nor should the drop-down menu take up half the window. This was my biggest concern. Perhaps using a grid format for things like submenus, or pushing them to a sidebar will help reduce the amount of vertical page space for things like submenus.
- Download page should return to a grid format; right now it's hard to scan for things you like
- Right now, I find that the new and old sites are fairly limited in terms of page exposure- meaning that while a few pages like the main community forum and the downloads page recieve a lot of attention, other pages like the Journals and Yearbook (and the donate button!) are tucked away expect for the adventurous clicker. Reordering the site and perhaps integrating these features more deeply into other pages would help- maybe there could be an option to create a main 'homepage' which aggregates content onto one-page- things like thread posts, new downloads, journals, etc. (something like Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/all/)
- Perhaps some of the main menu tabs could be merged together. Things like News, Community and Site could be merged together, as well as the Help and Create Tabs. Again, perhaps allowing the user to choose their own individual choices would work

- Building on this, perhaps allowing the user some options for appearance should fix these issues. Maybe something that allows users to drag and drop their preferred menus/menu order, choose the colour of their boxes, size of font, size of thumbnails amount of white space, etc. would work. Something like what's happening on the User Profile page, but individualized. Perhaps eventually something like the tumblr themes could emerge out of this, with people sharing their individual site layouts.

- Definitely the userbase needs to be eased in gently- too great a change, and you could risk repeating what happened over at Gawker or Digg. Perhaps allowing people to optionally keep the old layout (and slowly swap them over one by one) would work.
- TLDR; Navigation and page exposure at both the old an new MTS3 are a bit too complex- simplifying navigation without removing content should help. Also, user customization.

Anyways, thanks for all the work and effort you put into this site, Delphy!

virgalibabe
15th May 2013, 6:05 PM
first of all a belated Happy Birthday. I was very surprised by all the new shinies yesterday but I wasn't annoyed by it or anything. It's time the site got an update and you're not the only ones doing it. I only had two problems. First the search function, the most import feature here on MTS for me, was moved to the bottom of the page in the download sections for TS2 and TS3.

The second one was the themes that although there was a vast selection of colors they all needed a lot of polishing. By this I mean that some of the themes looked great in the Download sections but were a real pain to deal with in the Discussion section. I couldn't tell when i post started or where it ended and who was talking about what. Same thing goes for the Downloads section. Certain themes made that page extremely hard to browse through.

My advice would be to start with two themes and slowly roll out more while paying good attention that each theme has a good background color to text color contrast, each "section" is easily visible by making them different colors or adding border lines and that the theme looks good everywhere on the site. By section I mean that it should be obvious to me when one post start and the other ends or which download belongs to whom. Or when a header is actually a header and not part of the rest of the page.

I personally welcome the change, the site will look a lot modern and the downloads will get a better spotlight to shine on them but please don't let that get in the way of being more practical. So please make the search button more visible and easily accessible. I'm sure that with some tweaks the end result will be great. I'm not a creator though so this is just the opinion of an "end user" not a contributor.

TL;DR *Please don't bury the search function on the bottom of the page
*Make sure the themes look good everywhere on the site and that it's easy to see the different sections of the page more clearly

Simonut
15th May 2013, 6:10 PM
Yesterday was a surprise to me to see a "New Setup" but it was a pleasant one. This is 2013 I think we need a new look overall, nothing stay the same in life what is old goes out and what is new comes in.
I like yesterday new setup myself, and hope that maybe in the future Delphy you will be able to add some of those features, yeah I am for that whole new look I really love the homepage, I also found ( for me ) getting around was no problem.

Just got to be patience and read to find what you want, the only problem I found and did not like was when I downloaded a creator item and leave a thank you feedback my avatar was not there, other than that I like it.
I did not stay on the site long to check other things, but I did check out The Sims Discussion area, It was just a bit confusing there, but not much, I find all you need to do is use your big eyes and read and follow direction as to where you want to go. ;) So all and all yes I like it very much.

LordOrochimaru
15th May 2013, 6:10 PM
An optional open beta would work wonders. That way people can report potential bugs and issues, and give constructive feedback. Rather than just forcing it on people.

Just a thought.

crevendevoss
15th May 2013, 6:44 PM
me i prefer the medieval layout but since the new one showed up i'm back to the old layout and i was wondering if the medieval one would still be allowed to be used bc it is my favourite one

gazania
15th May 2013, 6:51 PM
I was OK with either one. A little confused with the new one for a short time, but the ol' dinosaur here got used to it quickly enough.

d_dgjdhh
15th May 2013, 7:07 PM
Oh yes, thank you Delphy for providing the old style website, while you guys fix and rearrange the new website. Definitely was a shock to see a new layout that was messy. Hopefully the future website will look better organized and functional. Indeed, the new website did remind me of the look of blogs. Less professional looking, I'd wonder if there might be other style options aside from Bootstrap. Anyway, best of luck for the new design.

kadience
15th May 2013, 7:11 PM
I was surprised to see the new layout last night, but got used to it fairly quickly, and I liked it, it was a good change, even if it needed some work. Keeping the site looking the same makes it seem dated, in my opinion.

Though when reading the comments about the new layout, I was disappointed that so many people were saying it was stupid and shouldn't have been change.

applefeather2
15th May 2013, 7:15 PM
Delphy, your post = class. Pure class. :up:

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 7:20 PM
I've setup a Bootstrap feedback forum here: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/forumdisplay.php?f=671 You can give specific feedback there. Theres also an input thread to do with postbits.

Please take specific feedback and comments over there. Thanks!

kingtraci
15th May 2013, 7:33 PM
Aw man that's a bummer. I don't like change but I absolutely loved the new layout. I had no problems with it, I found my way around very easily, and I chose the beige on brown theme, which was easy on my eyes. I hope that layout comes back in the future. I feel like the new layout yesterday was a tease and I want more! Hehe.

LunyKimberly
15th May 2013, 7:53 PM
I think the main reason for the uproar over the new layout was the lack of warning. I know I for one saw the notices about the b-day maintenance and was seriously startled later in the day when I came back and saw a complete redesign - though the sticky notice on every page of the site linking to the news announcement concerning what happened and was going on helped things considerably.

I was also disappointed by the number of flames posted (even as early as I first checked) that were screaming about the redesign for no other posted reason than "it's new". Constructive criticism is one thing, flaming is another. Pointing out that "it's difficult to easily see what's new and what's not on the Downloads pages due to the variable height boxes" is constructive criticism, saying "OMG the site looks awful - change it back now!!!!" or "how dare you change the layout, change it back now!!!" are flames.

Moving the rest of this post over to the new forum.

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 9:19 PM
- Things are too widely spaced out- I shouldn't need to scroll halfway down a page to get to the place where the active threads are (ex. here: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/fd.php?f=561); ...

Thanks for the feedback. I've just been working on the forumdisplay view so here's a side by side browser comparison on a single screen of the old and new layouts.

http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/44546_130515161359forumdisplay.png

As you can see, now the new view actually requires *less* scrolling to get to the posts. :)

With regards to the menus, thats definately something I'm looking into. The existing (old) dropdown menu structure gets very clunky when you have a lot of content as we do, but with that said, the new menus *do* have a lot of empty space, so I need to find a happy medium.

Tashiketh
15th May 2013, 9:26 PM
I still do not have a problem with the appearance of the site no matter where you goes with it. I am more concerned about the content of the site. No one pays attention to me saying over and over there are dead links here being ignored. I want to see all download links in pristine condition.

Let me elaborate further since I get no one agreeing with me on this point: If I look up a mod for, let's say, how to allow toddlers to visit a community lot. And that mod is a very bad broken mod that has messed up everyone's game and is all over comments that it never worked for anyone ever with pages of comments saying, "this is broke my game!," that mod should be REMOVED. Not blacklisted. REMOVED. That way when another mod maker comes along they will not see that mod there and say to themselves, "Oh, I was going to make a mod like that but look some one else already did it!" Then we are stuck with broken mod.

I find downloads from 2005,6,7(?) with message on them saying, "Our database was corrupted this past week, sorry." Six years ago this lot's link was broken yet still it is here on TS2 downloads.

There are so many moderators hired to make sure someone's post is not end up in wrong spot on forum as if that would be end of world if it did. Yet do any of these employees check for faulty links and offer to remove these useless downloads taking up space??? I have heard it said it is so vary hard to qualify to have your download put on this site. But I say it is zillion times harder to get it off this site when it has gone rot!

No one listens to me.

You know, you're right - theres no point in those downloads that don't have active files anymore even showing up on the site. I meant to do something about that a long time ago but I guess I forgot. Although theres only 1,314 of them, thats still minor change in terms of the total number of downloads we have. I'll go ahead and move them out at some point this week. :)

Now, with regards to downloads having broken links, do you mean the above ones, with the banner, or something else?

With regards to stuff that, well, just breaks - you can use the report functionality to flag these up. I guess the big problem is that there is currently 79,273 download threads on the site, which is a LOT to go through. And, as somebody else pointed out, the staff are volunteers and nobody has the role to go through some 80k downloads figuring out which ones are broken and which aren't.

Mlle-Kohaku
15th May 2013, 9:42 PM
I'm both sad and happy that we've switched back to the old MTS for the time being. I liked the new changes--for the most part--it was just too much too fast. I had no idea there'd even been an option to view v2.9 let alone that you guys were working on updating the site. (In retrospect, I should have known you guys were.) One day it was the same site I'd used for a long time and gotten used to, the next it was completely different and I felt like I was floundering trying to get my bearings.

DigitalSympathies
15th May 2013, 10:04 PM
I was trying to adjust my colour scheme a few days before all of this hooplah happened, from blue to green for a monitor I was testing the colours for (I pull up a few websites that I know the schemes for and test those out as extra assurance), and I accidentally stumbled across the Bootstrap stuff. I panicked but luckily somebody must've noticed and reverted me, or maybe my frantic refreshing did something. I was just about to back out of the private VPN that I share with a few people in my IRC room and test it normally, but luckily everything went back to normal until the changeover yesterday.

These were my notes yesterday that I took during the theme switchover:

- My browser (Chrome, latest version) slowed down immensely. Pages on here took 10+ minutes to load. Usually they load instantly (keep in mind that my main computer is in storage, as we're moving, and I'm running off a late-2000's model). This may have just been you guys, but a few sites have changed over recently too and I've experienced the same slowdown because they're more image-heavy than ever. A lot of Sims 3 blogs/downloads sites do the same thing by having MASSIVE text and images so that you can stand ten feet away and still read it.

- The blue on blue was hard to read and the theme switchover only worked for Calm Storm which wasn't much better. I like the current contrast of black or white on blue.

- There's too much empty space and nothing feels organised anymore. Also, I've noticed that the layout only really "works" on 16:9 or 16:10 displays. 4:3 was way too crowded and sometimes didn't even work at all.

- Pages often didn't load right and were all scrambled. The site also looked different between Opera, Chrome, and Firefox.

- I really liked the new profile pages but they didn't take up the entire screen and again, felt like empty space. They were the best things out of the bunch, really.

- Downloading was confusing as hell. I didn't get into that much, however, just that you didn't know where to settle your eyes, and that the pages were too long now.

- In the normal theme that we've always had, the sections are all in little boxes and that's easier on the eyes than a bunch of text in one gigantic box.

- Please keep the downloads section like it is right now (or the layout that I use at least) as an option! I like having a list layout of things and not a grid, it's less in-your-face.

- Please also try to keep forums the same. These are the easiest and quickest boards to use out of any that I frequent because they're 99% text, nothing too fancy or flashy. It's really easy to find out where everything is.

- Reduce the size of the text for titles. It's perfect how it is on the old version.

In summation, yes, it looks sleek and modern, but it needs colour scheme, scaling, and organisational changes. It also should rely less on images, and be compatible with slower and older computers. I think that there should be an option to keep the site as it is right now, but not a limited-time-offer. It would be best to just keep a single-theme-version of the old site, especially because a lot of us run on older systems. I tend to switch between really old computers and my new one just for the hell of it (I like me some Windows 98) and I know many people who still haven't switched over from Windows XP.

Thranduil Oropherion
15th May 2013, 10:23 PM
Well I am a lady of a certain age, and if anyone was going to find the change an issue surely an older bird like myself would have been the first one to get on my bitch box for a rant.

However, I found the new site design cleaner, fresher and it ran with no issues on Firefox and on my iPad via Safari. I found no loading issues either. I stayed with the default colour version of the the site and didnt experiment with the alternatives as I wanted to see it in the raw, as it were. I concur that I found less scrolling rather than more, and found and downloaded several game mods yesterday for a new build I'm planning with no problems whatsoever. I checked out my profile and my personal creations page and I thought they looked amazing - amazing to the point that I am considering updating them all and offering some new builds for consideration.

To Delphy and team - you did an incredible job initiating the new site and frankly I wish you all the best of luck and 100% sapport and encouragement to take the leap into The New on a permanent basis.

Yours sincerely
A lady of a certain age who games.

ChiK_HeinekeN
15th May 2013, 10:30 PM
If you want to browse the site with Bootstrap enabled and have it working, you have to browse from this url: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/?styleid=40
Otherwise just going to modthesims.com will only work with the classic theme.

Thank you :)

You know, you're right - theres no point in those downloads that don't have active files anymore even showing up on the site...

... And, as somebody else pointed out, the staff are volunteers and nobody has the role to go through some 80k downloads figuring out which ones are broken and which aren't.

Is there anything or a way for us "normal people" (not staff) can do to help?

malfoya
15th May 2013, 10:42 PM
Thank you for converting the site back (at least for a while). I was more than shocked yesterday, not because I don't like changes but because there was so many things that weren't improvements. Instead some pages looked more confusing. An idea when you want to redesign and modernize something is to take it through small stages, so that people will get used to the new changes without getting a headache. Like Facebook for instance, they don't change much in every update, but even that is often enough to make people react. Usually people get used to the new updates after a little while, but it's also important not to make the changes so big that people don't mind keeping up. Users are the whole reason a website exists :)

RomerJon17
15th May 2013, 10:44 PM
I'm running now Bootstrap Style and there are some glitches but keep improving the new layout and colour scheme Delphy :) I am happy the bootstrap forum layout and is it now similar like the old MTS forum layout. Not like yesterday...
I am happy with it and it's my own decision. The others can stick with the old layout because that's their own decision.

Night Racer
16th May 2013, 12:22 AM
AAHH! Why is the Bootstap Cerulean theme gone? That was my jam, my fav, the best. And now its M.I.A. *sobs*

noxnoxnox
16th May 2013, 2:16 AM
I love new theme, I have called for shiny, visual change of MTS for a while. I'm happy to hear I will get it again soon.

hellshock70
16th May 2013, 9:11 AM
That's a problem in general, though, due to the rise of glossy screens & to computers using lots of blue hues that resemble daylight. You can get third-party apps to make your screen more night-viewing-friendly. (I personally use f.lux)

In my case it's a lot more than that. Medical condition and some of the medication I have to take makes it even worse. I actually have to wear sunglasses rain or shine. I can't knock on my neighbors door without sunglasses due to his door frame being recently painted a bright white.

Elias943
16th May 2013, 1:43 PM
I think the new theme looks great! There's much space for improvement though!
In the dropdown menu you could use the logos of the games instead of plain text (Sims 1 Discussion,Sims 2 Discussion etc).
Just a thought :)
Also you could add some vertical lines in some places just like I draw in that screen:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l172/HRAKLHS/Capture-1.jpg

Overall , it's nice to see that MTS is finally getting an update! :)

lisfyre
16th May 2013, 4:47 PM
Awww... what happened to the new shiny? I'm back to the old format? Hmm... I hope we get the new look back soon :)

Nysha
16th May 2013, 4:51 PM
The new shiny is behind the link in the first post. :)

ttowntallyho
16th May 2013, 7:45 PM
The bootstrap version is also back to the old theme it seems like, plus the downloads aren't showing up.

Nysha
16th May 2013, 8:08 PM
The bootstrap server is still working as bootstrap, but do bear in mind that clicking a www.modthesims link, for example in a post, will boot you back out of it.

What do you see instead of downloads?

miahbug385
16th May 2013, 11:31 PM
I was a bit shocked by the new layout because it was so sudden. However after poking around a bit I began to like it a lot. It seemed sleeker and loaded a bit faster on my computer.

joninmobile
17th May 2013, 12:46 AM
Thanks so much I wasn't too much of a fan of the new thing. I like small changes but MTS looks good as it is, no need to go overboard.

AlfredAskew
17th May 2013, 3:21 AM
Thanks Delphy. I really appreciate how well you take critique, even when we're mean at you. Mad props for a cool response.
Also. HTML5 WOO!

Element
17th May 2013, 3:47 AM
Whew, I'm glad I can still access the Bootstrap version. It still needs some polish, but the new MTS definitely does a good job of dragging the site out of 2004.

EDIT: But Delphy better bring back join dates near avatars, or else it will be hard for me to feel superior to everyone for signing up in '06.

ttowntallyho
17th May 2013, 1:26 PM
The bootstrap server is still working as bootstrap, but do bear in mind that clicking a www.modthesims link, for example in a post, will boot you back out of it.

What do you see instead of downloads?
Oh I see. I bookmarked the bootstrap site, but I must have clicked on a regular MTS link which must have caused my bookmark to revert back to the old style. Now I clicked the bootstrap link in the OP, but can't find the drop down (drop up?) menu to change the theme and colors back to what I had.

Edit: I now see the disclaimer at the top that this version will change constantly, so probably that's why I can't change the theme right now? Sheesh, all this learnin' is cutting into my sims time!

Nysha
17th May 2013, 2:18 PM
Yeah, we just have one bootstrap version right now - other colour combos will return once the layout is finalised. :)

Christine11778
17th May 2013, 4:08 PM
I really like the new look for the site and will continue to use it and if I notice any issues will post here. :)

Inge Jones
17th May 2013, 6:27 PM
Would it be possible to have a "View first unread" button on topic listing level not just after you opened the thread? After all that's what most people are probably wanting to do when they're opening a thread, and it would save an extra click and a little bit of time. Currently there is a "Go to last post" button at listing level, but I am not sure that's very useful as a rule, unless by chance the last post is also first unread

Tashiketh
17th May 2013, 8:34 PM
ChiK_HeinekeN: About the best you can do to help is to just use the Report button to flag any downloads that are broken. You shouldn't need to flag ones that have missing files since they should already have the banner over the top of them. Thanks!

Christine1178: Please post any issues over in the Bootstrap Feedback forum thats linked at the top of all bootstrap pages. Thanks!

Inge Jones: There is already a "go to new post" functionality which is copied from the old theme. (It's to the left of the thread title).

Inge Jones
17th May 2013, 9:10 PM
Inge Jones: There is already a "go to new post" functionality which is copied from the old theme. (It's to the left of the thread title).

Yes, but only after you open the thread by clicking on it in the list/index. What I was wondering is if we can actually have it at list/index level, instead of the Go to last post button.

Denim
17th May 2013, 9:56 PM
I did see the new layout, I personally don't mind the change, but it was too bright for me to even try to go change the theme, it gave me an instant migraine and my eyes hurt so much that all I could do was click away from the site, but I did want to comment. I deal with migraines on a daily basis and if a website is too bright, it's basically unusable for me. My suggestion would be to make the default theme not too bright. Even if you made the default theme similar to this current theme, that would be wonderful.

Thank you for all your hard work, guys. :gjob:

fanseelamb
17th May 2013, 10:54 PM
This may be a dumb question, but to Denim and the other migrane sufferers or folks who can't deal with bright screens for medical reasons - there are lots of bright websites out there. Wouldn't it help to just turn down your monitor's brightness/contrast setting?

Inge Jones
18th May 2013, 9:13 AM
This may be a dumb question, but to Denim and the other migrane sufferers or folks who can't deal with bright screens for medical reasons - there are lots of bright websites out there. Wouldn't it help to just turn down your monitor's brightness/contrast setting?

If it's anything like mine, it isn't brightness in that sense, it's really intensity of color. If you get two colors against each other that are both loud, like bright red and bright green, or more than a small splash of intense color on the page. So I can take one headline or banner in an intense color, but can't read an entire post against a background of that colour without beginning to get nausea and that warning ringing in my ears. Also where the font is lighter than the background, I can't manage for large areas of text. It's probably eyestrain that is the direct cause of the symptoms rather than anything weird.

However, I will say that most of the bootstrap styles on offer before they were removed were usable for me, although some were not - for example the one that had the dark grey blender-style background.

Nysha
18th May 2013, 9:16 AM
Ok. We will bear that in mind and make sure we implement at least one fairly muted, low-contrast theme, once we have the basic layout etc. sorted.

Inge Jones
18th May 2013, 10:25 AM
I'm not really up to date on this technology - is bootstrap meant to be something where the user can set their own colors anyway? Or just that it gives users an opportunity to contribute a theme to the site?

NB I am having no visual problems with the default bootstrap theme I am using now. If you keep this as an option it will suit at least one person ;)

Nysha
18th May 2013, 10:50 AM
It is pretty easy to produce one's own colour combinations for bootstrap, yep. Now that D has been tinkering with the more basic elements of bootstrap, new colour schemes will need to be done through a special MTS thing (general use sites like Lavish Bootstrap won't work), but I get the impression that there is going to be such a thing. We're also hoping to let creators set their own colours for use on their profiles (within reason) like we did under the vBB themes. I'm not sure if we'll have an option for users to set their own colours sitewide, but it is a nice idea, so hopefully it'll be discussed. :)

I also see no reason why we wouldn't implement user contributed themes for everyone, if they're nice.

Saturnfly
18th May 2013, 1:43 PM
My honest opinion is that I dislike the new theme/ layout for several reasons.

1. Why must something that works brilliantly and has garnered a lot of respect over the years for the immense usability need to be "fixed"? This is the problem with the internet, so much changes and we're constantly having to learn to adapt to these changes despite the original design of things being so popular.

2. The new theme is messy, things are all over the page and there's very little colour scheme going on which makes it difficult to distinguish between functions.

The current theme is well bordered, has familliar colours that people are well comfortable with and which imo, has made MTS so popular because of the easy browsing. You're not confronted with different information and an array of features and functions, they are all laid out nicely and are easy to read.

This isn't the case with the new theme, it's taking a leap back. It's like games released these days, so many are based on design rather than functionality. The current design is great, it's simple and really easy to navigate.

I just personally don't see the point in fixing or 'improving' something which works absolutely great and has done so for so long.

Firegrl94
18th May 2013, 2:14 PM
I'd just like to say that Delphy shouldn't have to face an uproar so bad that he has to revert the whole website back when he changes it. It's his website, when Facebook changes stuff, people complain, but that's that, it was their decision and they do their best to fix new bugs and issues. RoosterTeeth creates a new channel, starts uploading set videos every day, takes weeks for Minecraft Let's Play - Shopping List to be released? Get the fuck over it, you have to respect these people for sharing their talent and creations with you in the first place. So, basically, stop being pussies and just let the man make the website the way he likes it. It's not like the site will lose that many users if they hate the layout, seeing as it's still one of the best and most trusted custom content sites for TS3. I personally would love for the grid pattern to be back and for the Ad spaces to be a little less invasive, but if he doesn't change that then I'll live with it. This comment will probably be deleted for my language, but it was really the only way to describe how I feel about the situation.

ChiK_HeinekeN
18th May 2013, 4:08 PM
Would it be possible to have a "View first unread" button on topic listing level not just after you opened the thread? After all that's what most people are probably wanting to do when they're opening a thread, and it would save an extra click and a little bit of time. Currently there is a "Go to last post" button at listing level, but I am not sure that's very useful as a rule, unless by chance the last post is also first unread

That would be helpful too (I think) but the advantage of the Go to last post is if no one else aside from the creator of the thread has written and the creator has update his/her last post, in order to avoid the double posting rules, the thread itself won't get update and this way every person is gonna be able to see the update post :)

Inge Jones
18th May 2013, 5:10 PM
That would be helpful too (I think) but the advantage of the Go to last post is if no one else aside from the creator of the thread has written and the creator has update his/her last post, in order to avoid the double posting rules, the thread itself won't get update and this way every person is gonna be able to see the update post :)

... and miss it if it happened to be penultimate post. Ok so this option is useful in one particular situation, but since we don't know before clicking when that situation might have arisen, we'll have to click the button at random and hope the situation coincides with our decision. Or have I missed some important point?

Edited hours later: I just spotted the "Go to first unread" on the listing of topics in individual forums. Just need that button added to the "New Posts" search listing too (and similar search results), and I am a happy bunny :)

Tashiketh
19th May 2013, 11:10 AM
Yes, but only after you open the thread by clicking on it in the list/index. What I was wondering is if we can actually have it at list/index level, instead of the Go to last post button.

No its on forum display too. Down arrow to left of thread titles, same as old theme :)

Ghost sdoj
22nd May 2013, 3:13 PM
@Saturnfly:

I really hadn't noticed that things were any more "All over the page" than they are in the old familiar themes. The pages sometimes have more on them, and things have been moved a bit, but the placement logic is similar. If I can figure out where to look for something in this format, I can find it in Bootstrap.

And if you really hate the colors in the current Bootstrap theme, check Whiterider's post just above yours.

psyraven
23rd May 2013, 12:20 PM
Is it just me or the upper menu really doesn't work anymore? O_o;

Welp, until the problem is fixed, I'll just use Google search for now. :|

Night Racer
24th May 2013, 3:03 AM
dose bootstrap not have a theme selector, at all? I was using old-style for a bit and saw a message at the top that said "Hey NightRacer, still using Blue Game style? Why not try the beta version!" And it linked me to a bootrsap link, that didnt work. So I came in here and clicked the dedicated link, but now I cant for the life of me find a theme selector :/

maybesomethingdunno
24th May 2013, 3:10 AM
Night Racer, Delphy has disabled all custom bootstrap themes for now.

Hi All,

I've disabled all but the basic Bootstrap theme for now. This is becuase I am now compiling my own version with custom mixins and LESS and adding additional colour gradients and so on. So that means that all the existing custom CSS files no longer work properly.

Once the basic layout and markup and CSS works for the bootstrap theme, I can then start working on *specific* custom colour schemes.
http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=503224

Tashiketh
24th May 2013, 11:03 AM
Is it just me or the upper menu really doesn't work anymore? O_o;

Welp, until the problem is fixed, I'll just use Google search for now. :|

What do you mean "doesn't work anymore"? I can't "fix the problem" unless I know what the problem is - and it works perfectly fine for everybody else testing it...

Please give specifics:

- Browser user + version
- OS used
- Description of issue
- Screenshot of issue happening

Thanks

Tashiketh
24th May 2013, 11:03 AM
dose bootstrap not have a theme selector, at all? I was using old-style for a bit and saw a message at the top that said "Hey NightRacer, still using Blue Game style? Why not try the beta version!" And it linked me to a bootrsap link, that didnt work. So I came in here and clicked the dedicated link, but now I cant for the life of me find a theme selector :/

What, specifically "didn't work"?

Night Racer
24th May 2013, 2:37 PM
ok, scratch that. now the link loads Bootsrap fine, but yesterday it just loaded old style with attempted bootstrap text layout, so it didnt match, and the downloads pages was 6 levels of messed up.

Tashiketh
24th May 2013, 4:04 PM
That sounds.... very weird. :) Glad it's fixed now though!

portisHeart
24th May 2013, 6:44 PM
ok, i'm a nobody here. not much comments, no support, no upload, nothing - a little lurker who shouldn't have the right to express an opinion since i never participate much.
nonetheless - my opinion about the new layout, bacause i was shocked:
i don't have anything against changes generally, absolutely not - at - all.
though, as i saw the whiteness blending my eyes, and the general look of the new style, i was like "OMG. they did it. AGAIN! aaaargh!

not "you" or "MTS" again, but after *cough-the-site-that-shouldn't-be-mentioned*, aka TSR, and the newly awful changes on Livejournal, i really really wonder why e-ve-ry-bo-dy is switching to this loathesome, naked, bland, eyehurting white layout. i heard it's a facebook clone - dunno, i never go there i avoid like the pest.
i know there are/should be style/color options coming (but somehow, i saw the option to custom the colors only once, the 1st time, now the link or button is gone, or i'm very stupid). though from what i saw in the cyborg greyish blue (??) - huh, less worse than the white, but that's about it.

i'm not one who cries for old stuff past. nor do i go apes*it when stuff changes from one day to another, with or without announcement. when the result is comparatively just as good, or naturally, better. but this state of the art clone design that all forums/journals seem to be greedy to adopt ranks for me a lot lower than "just as good".. ~

i know you and your team(s) have been doing an amazing awesome great job building up this wonderful interesting site, spending days, months, years giving your all to make it work - and you succeded. i can only bow low to your engagement, your skills, your endurance, and be thankful you offered us the result of your hard work just like this. the world needs more people like you and probably less like me, comfortable lazy little lurker with a big mouth and an opinion. and anyway, hey your site, your rules, your game.

just.. a layout is the 1st thing that you see on a site. THE impression. just after the whole background server stuff which nobody "sees" but gets pissed off when they get a 404. so from it hangs the whole degree of fun the user actually has on the site - even before the content imho, because with an awful layout, i don't even want to stay to view said content really. guess what: i already wasn't a huge follower of TSR, now since they changed for their new layout, i land there casually by a link, but generally, i don't visit it any more. my own new scrapbook on Livejournal which replaced the previous awesome galleries? i hate it. if Dreamwidth had galleries, i would move everything over there at once, because DA galleries don't offer more either in customizing. so i just use LJ's scrapbook as my storage for the pics on my LJ/DWs, just because it's practical.. and as LJ keeps implementing new crap, i only stay there because all my communities and friends are there - if there was a real crosstalk between LJ & DW, i'd be gone in a wink, even if a good friend has paid until 2018 (i'm serious, LOL).

i really don't want to experience the same with MTS - it's the only sim site i follow and visit regularly, and it would be a big loss to not visit it any more - or to barely "bear the look of it".. i would be around more too if i was actually playing right now - due to tech spec issues, i made a sim pause, so there's a reason why i don't participate more actively too ~ as soon as i'd get a decent PC, i'd play again, and bring some stuff too ^^.. just.. don't put your site in the same basket as certain social networks *snort* and emulate them (per intent or pure chance) - you're much better.

ooops guess i am a slight little bit upset.. i wrote a bloody novel XDD
feel free to delete this if you want, as long as you, the mind behind it, get to read it once ^_^

Ghost sdoj
24th May 2013, 7:57 PM
It's in development. If you have a strong opinion about what should or should not be included in the new setup, http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/forumdisplay.php?f=671 is a forum where you can make suggestions and give feedback.

(And you are just as important as anybody else. Even if you only lurk, you qualify as someone who sees the ads, which help provide revenue for the site. And there would be a lot fewer people interested in uploading anything if nobody downloaded it. )

Krysee
27th May 2013, 2:01 PM
I usually don't have input about what people want to do with their sites, even those that I visit frequently (like this one). The way I see it is, I'm not paying for it, so my opinion is invalidated. I come for the content, however you want to serve it up is your deal, not mine. Having said that, I'm old, and as such, I'm resistant to change. I logged in that day when the site had been flipped over and my immediate response, after "was it hijacked or sold?" was "Oh great, now I have to learn where everything is all over again." As far as the looks? Don't care. Getting lost in an area that was once familiar? Frustrating.

My impression on the overall look was that it belonged on a smartphone. You know, those overpriced mini-tablets that kids* use to be rude at each other? Yeah, looked like it should go on one of those, and not a real computer that's capable of running TS3.

* Kids = Children under the age of 25. As opposed to children who are around retirement age, like me. :P

Tashiketh
27th May 2013, 2:39 PM
I usually don't have input about what people want to do with their sites, even those that I visit frequently (like this one). The way I see it is, I'm not paying for it, so my opinion is invalidated. I come for the content, however you want to serve it up is your deal, not mine. Having said that, I'm old, and as such, I'm resistant to change. I logged in that day when the site had been flipped over and my immediate response, after "was it hijacked or sold?" was "Oh great, now I have to learn where everything is all over again." As far as the looks? Don't care. Getting lost in an area that was once familiar? Frustrating.

My impression on the overall look was that it belonged on a smartphone. You know, those overpriced mini-tablets that kids* use to be rude at each other? Yeah, looked like it should go on one of those, and not a real computer that's capable of running TS3.

* Kids = Children under the age of 25. As opposed to children who are around retirement age, like me. :P

Can I ask if you have even tried the new theme since then? Becuase there has been a *lot* of changes to it. Yes, some things are a bit different, but most things are actually in the same place as before. I suspect the main thing that people found "different" and "getting lost on" was the download browser with the pinterest type view, and thats gone now. :)

Regarding the comment about smartphones - the new layout is actually readable on a smartphone or tablet now. The old one wasn't. So if you regularly get involved in the discussions (as opposed to only downloading) then you now have another option for checking the site on the go.

Tashiketh
27th May 2013, 2:48 PM
i really don't want to experience the same with MTS - it's the only sim site i follow and visit regularly, and it would be a big loss to not visit it any more - or to barely "bear the look of it".. i would be around more too if i was actually playing right now - due to tech spec issues, i made a sim pause, so there's a reason why i don't participate more actively too ~ as soon as i'd get a decent PC, i'd play again, and bring some stuff too ^^.. just.. don't put your site in the same basket as certain social networks *snort* and emulate them (per intent or pure chance) - you're much better.


I'm just curious why people always assume I am copying facebook. The style and content is totally different and I'm not using it in any way to shape how the new look works.

Instead, I'm basing changes on how the non-vocal users actually use the site. For example, the majority of people browse at specific resolutions, and the download browse pages get the most hits - and most people click on the images, and not the text. So to make things more accessible to people (by, for example, displaying images above the fold) then it enables them to more easily determine if a download is, well, downloadable. Previously there was an *awful* lot of scrolling needed (or a bunch of mouse clicks) to see the screenshots. I know it's "different" but thats what happens when things get moved around. :)

I think part of the problem here is that MTS has not changed it's style in 8 years or so. At all. Sure, there've been minor bits and pieces, but overall it's been basically the exact same style - and people get used to that. So as soon as something new comes along it's like "I don't know where to click!" or "I'm confused!". But in essence the majority of things are in the same place - they are just styled differently.

You know one of the good things about this new codebase? If you wanted to, you could make your own colour scheme. For only you to use. You could style it however you like. Want to make the site have a pink background? Go nuts. Want to have huge fonts only on the post messages? Thats possible to. Theres a lot more thats actually possible to give you - the users - the power to control, if you want it. But obviously that power comes with a price. It is one that I'm willing to pay, however, given the ancient theme that we have, and given the power of modern browsers and screen sizes.

So, no, it wont look like Facebook (and indeed, I don't think it does), but it does share a lot of similarities in terms of underlying web technologies. General comparisons are, I think, a bit unfair at this point. :)

portisHeart
27th May 2013, 3:09 PM
So, no, it wont look like Facebook (and indeed, I don't think it does), but it does share a lot of similarities in terms of underlying web technologies. General comparisons are, I think, a bit unfair at this point. :)
well.. i might be a bit biased & traumatized from the few sites where this kind of change happened and disappointed/unnerved me, ok ;). i'm sorry if i overreacted here. it was just this clone effect - which obviously isn't the case as you mention here->

If you wanted to, you could make your own colour scheme. For only you to use. You could style it however you like. Want to make the site have a pink background? Go nuts. Want to have huge fonts only on the post messages? Thats possible to. Theres a lot more thats actually possible to give you - the users - the power to control, if you want it.
that's what i searched for a while for.. around here, then i went to the bootstrap page, but the customization page looked a bit confusing, not even sure if it was the right one - and if there was a menu anywhere to pick a layout, on myMts, bootstrap or anything, i totally missed it ~
though the download pages, and the huge icons *sigh*..

ah well, i think eventually, you working user-oriented & being flexible, and counting on cool customization, the new look won't be that awful. and i'll lose any reason to jump up & down ;) thanks for your hard work anyway!

Tashiketh
27th May 2013, 3:24 PM
well.. i might be a bit biased & traumatized from the few sites where this kind of change happened and disappointed/unnerved me, ok ;). i'm sorry if i overreacted here. it was just this clone effect - which obviously isn't the case as you mention here->

No probs - to be honest, I get the same whenever I see a "standard" bootstrap site without any customisation. It's just been overdone at this point. :)



that's what i searched for a while for.. around here, then i went to the bootstrap page, but the customization page looked a bit confusing, not even sure if it was the right one - and if there was a menu anywhere to pick a layout, on myMts, bootstrap or anything, i totally missed it ~
though the download pages, and the huge icons *sigh*..


If you want to have a play around with something specific, go to http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/themegen/ - you do need to know how to do colours and stuff, but some basic copy pasting will help. It's very quick and dirty so much take a little while to get used to. :)

As for the huge icons on the download pages - what do you mean? All the EP icons are small there. Do you mean the thumbnails? If so, then thats been changed. When I first rolled out the new theme I'd sized the thumbnails up to double (from 150x150 to 300x300 minimum), and people said they where too big, so *now* they are at *most* 250x250, which is larger than before, but not too large.


ah well, i think eventually, you working user-oriented & being flexible, and counting on cool customization, the new look won't be that awful. and i'll lose any reason to jump up & down ;) thanks for your hard work anyway!

Yeah, the customisation is really one of the things I like too - anybody can, with a little effort, make a real My MTS theme. I'm even working on an even *easier* theme generator, with colour picks and so on, but it's a bit more involved and the javascript is being annoying. :)

Thanks for the comments btw!

Psychosim
27th May 2013, 5:33 PM
and most people click on the images, and not the text.Pardon me if that's a dumb question, but why would I click on text unless it's a link?

You know one of the good things about this new codebase? If you wanted to, you could make your own colour scheme. For only you to use. You could style it however you like.That's what I probably like best about the new site. I'm sure with time there'll be the right theme for everyone. Might be a good idea to think ahead and offer a central place where users can share their custom themes. :)

Menaceman44
28th May 2013, 4:46 PM
Has bootstrap been disabled at the moment? I'm using the bootstrap.modthesims URL but it just looks like the old site.

PacMani
4th Jun 2013, 4:51 PM
It's still working for me.

Menaceman44
4th Jun 2013, 5:42 PM
Yeah it's back for me now. Should have said.

ekrubynaffit
8th Jul 2013, 6:56 AM
Having 'had' to use the new theme for the last few days as on the old I get a long running script message and then get booted out, I can say in most things i like it, the big annoyance for me is the BIG blue header at the top, it feels like it cuts the screen in half, and makes it seem like you miss things, is there a way to thin it out, instead of having the list on the top left descending what about making it spread out across the top so then some of the screen comes back. That my one gripe, otherwise I like it, just takes some getting used to is all.

Tashiketh
8th Jul 2013, 4:23 PM
ekrubynaffit:

I have to say I have no idea what you mean by the "big blue header". On what page? The menu bar at the top is the same size as on the old site.... So I'm very confused about what you are trying to describe here. Please screenshot it. :)

ekrubynaffit
8th Jul 2013, 11:09 PM
Sorry Delphy I was having a real moment on what to call it, yes the header, its alot 'thicker' than what it was.
This is from the old theme

http://imageshack.us/a/img594/8097/5mzw.jpg

and from the new

http://imageshack.us/a/img33/4992/rxd9.jpg

Like I said its the only thing Im finding is a small annoyance, rest no problem, and great work on what you've done :)

Tashiketh
9th Jul 2013, 10:19 AM
Wow, thats definately *not* supposed to happen. :) Looks like a pretty big bug!

Here's what it's supposed to look like:

http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/45887_130709051837Screen Shot 2013-07-09 at 11.17.47 .png

Can you share some information about the following:

- What OS do you use?
- Which browser + version?
- What screen resolution?

Thanks

ekrubynaffit
9th Jul 2013, 12:37 PM
[QUOTE=Delphy]Wow, thats definately *not* supposed to happen. :) Looks like a pretty big bug!

I had a feeling it wasnt meant to look like that, it actually cuts off some of the text!

- What OS do you use? 64-bit
- Which browser + version? Windows 9
- What screen resolution? 1920x1080

Tashiketh
9th Jul 2013, 4:01 PM
Okay I guess you mean IE9, right? Can you test briefly in Chrome and see if you get the same issue?

Tashiketh
9th Jul 2013, 8:01 PM
ekrubynaffit: Can you check something for me? Try pressing F12. At the top of the developer tools window you'll see something like this:

Browser Mode: IE9 Document Mode: IE7 standards

Can you click the IE7 standards and then select IE9 standards instead?

I can recreate the issue on IE10 but only if I select IE7 standards. Anything IE8 and above works fine.

You can also try Tools -> Compatibility View settings, and remove modthesims.info from there.

ekrubynaffit
9th Jul 2013, 9:17 PM
ekrubynaffit: Can you check something for me? Try pressing F12. At the top of the developer tools window you'll see something like this:

Browser Mode: IE9 Document Mode: IE7 standards

Can you click the IE7 standards and then select IE9 standards instead?

I can recreate the issue on IE10 but only if I select IE7 standards. Anything IE8 and above works fine.

You can also try Tools -> Compatibility View settings, and remove modthesims.info from there.

Well Delphy, today for the first time its perfect! Looking as it should, so I dont know what you did, but thanks :) No more squashed feeling!

Tashiketh
9th Jul 2013, 10:58 PM
Ahh well, might have been the other thing I did that wasn't working for me, but I guess it works for you. :) Good to hear!

Sweetlithium
22nd Jul 2013, 10:16 PM
I would like an option to turn on the theme, to test it and see if all those nasty bugs where fixed, and if not revert back the old theme which atleast makes sense! Part of the problem was the lack of communication

leefish
23rd Jul 2013, 8:20 AM
@Sweetlithium - try here >> http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/

Tashiketh
23rd Jul 2013, 3:10 PM
I just re-added the notice on the old themes, so more people can test it out now. :)

eskie227
29th Aug 2013, 1:16 AM
Well, i was a vocal opponent of this change on the initial go around, but I have to say, this version, which I'm using "stock" (I'll play with the settings when I have time tomorrow) is vastly superior. You put a great deal of effort into reading the constructive criticism the first round subjected to, and making many changes that maintain easy navigation, and so far, readability. Nicely done!

You did create one problem, though. While you moved the poster's ID back to the left, where it is easily associated with the post, and far easier to track than the first attempt when the poster info was on top of the post, the clean graphic lines you're using make me feel it is now more important to have an avatar. I don't have an avatar. Never have. Never really liked them. I knew if I ever went down that road, my OCD would overwhelm me with anxiety about having just the "right" avatar. I'd end up changing it frequently as I kept changing my mind between "Perfect Choice" to "What the hell drugs were you taking when you picked that". Now, that space seems even more in need of some perfect visual description of my entire being in a what, 160X160 pixel space? Thanks. I really didn't need this shit in my life.

But really, thanks for all your efforts. It does look really nice now, and I doubt I'll be going back to the "legacy" look at this point.

MarilynMcElroy
2nd Sep 2013, 6:39 PM
I like everything about the new theme except one thing. Where is the download button? I've talked to others who are also having this issue. Some people see it and some don't.

Thanks

Karen Lorraine
2nd Sep 2013, 7:13 PM
I like everything about the new theme except one thing. Where is the download button? I've talked to others who are also having this issue. Some people see it and some don't.

ThanksClick on the 'files' tab.

christmas fear
4th Sep 2013, 5:38 AM
i don't like the new theme at all. again, if it's not broken, don't fix it. the classic style is most familiar and i don't even know where things are in the different version. i was hoping you wouldn't do this again.

CatOfEvilGenius
4th Sep 2013, 9:02 AM
Haven't been on MTS in months, so this is quite a change! Very happy to see MTS is still actively being developed. No opinion on the new theme yet, but I imagine as with any new system, I'll figure it out in time. Just today, in a matter of minutes, I found familiar stuff like related works and recolors, just not exactly where I was used to seeing them. I found tutorials and tech discussion where I expected them to be. Didn't have trouble checking my messages, nor replying. Don't know yet about ease of browsing downloads, searching for specific things, downloading, uploading, but should I get back into simming, I'll probably figure it out. Mostly just really glad the site that's been such a source of fun for years is alive, kicking, and growing!

Tashiketh
4th Sep 2013, 10:11 AM
christmas fear: Considering that basically everything is still there, what, specifically, are you having problems finding?

christmas fear
4th Sep 2013, 1:22 PM
i can't find my posts on my profile.

leefish
4th Sep 2013, 2:08 PM
Click on the more button. You will then see a link to your last post and a button to view all posts. Also, if you can't find a theme you like I suggest the theme sharing thread. Some lovely themes there.

CatOfEvilGenius
5th Sep 2013, 1:15 AM
The "additional parameters" on the body shop filter, especially for clothing, is massively useful. I found the filter when looking at all Sims 2 downloads, but when I look at an individual creator's downloads, the filter seems to be unavailable. Talking about this here:

Customise your view with Compatible mode, Featured uploads, Favourites and more! Show filters...

Many creators have over a hundred items of clothings. In the past, I have often narrowed that down when looking for specific things, like elder men's underwear, or children's separates. Please allow filtering of downloads on individual creator pages again. Thanks.

Volvenom
7th Sep 2013, 2:18 PM
Click on the more button. You will then see a link to your last post and a button to view all posts. Also, if you can't find a theme you like I suggest the theme sharing thread. Some lovely themes there.

I'm using the black background at the moment, where is that thread? The black background hurts my eyes.

Christmas Fear: I'm afraid changes has to be endured. I worked at a place with computers from the 70's, I'm never ever gonna work there again :blink:

A point I have is the lack of a main feature on the home page, it's a bit cluttered. May just be me having the wrong settings though.

residenteviloutbreak
7th Sep 2013, 3:19 PM
How can I use the old theme. <_>

leefish
7th Sep 2013, 3:54 PM
@ residenteviloutbreak >> http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=511141

@Volvenom http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=511235

kampffenhoff
8th Sep 2013, 4:40 PM
@ residenteviloutbreak >> http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=511141

@Volvenom http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=511235

Thanks. I have gone back to the old theme.

Tashiketh
9th Sep 2013, 1:05 PM
A point I have is the lack of a main feature on the home page, it's a bit cluttered. May just be me having the wrong settings though.

I'd just like to point out that the old front page doesn't have a "main feature" either and it, too, is cluttered. :)

Tashiketh
9th Sep 2013, 1:15 PM
The "additional parameters" on the body shop filter, especially for clothing, is massively useful. I found the filter when looking at all Sims 2 downloads, but when I look at an individual creator's downloads, the filter seems to be unavailable. Talking about this here:

Customise your view with Compatible mode, Featured uploads, Favourites and more! Show filters...

Many creators have over a hundred items of clothings. In the past, I have often narrowed that down when looking for specific things, like elder men's underwear, or children's separates. Please allow filtering of downloads on individual creator pages again. Thanks.

Ask and ye shall receive.,...

CatOfEvilGenius
9th Sep 2013, 11:10 PM
Ask and ye shall receive.,...

Thank you, Delphy, for putting back the body shop filters on individual creator's pages. Just what I needed for better searching!

Sarah_Sims
13th Sep 2013, 2:01 PM
I like the new style but I miss the 'Thread Tools' option, mainly the 'Show Printable Version' because I like to print out all my downloads. If I right click on the page to print from this new style, I get a lot of gobble-de-gook at the top of the page. I'm using Google Chrome. Can this be fixed or are there 'Thread Tools' here and I'm just blind? Thanks in advance. :)

Tashiketh
13th Sep 2013, 8:59 PM
rose: I think you're about the only person I know of who prints stuff anymore... :) You can still access the print option it's just... sort of hidden. If you go to http://www.modthesims.info/printthread.php?t=XXXX where XXX is the number in the download URL, it should work

Sarah_Sims
14th Sep 2013, 12:04 AM
@Delphy: I had a feeling I might be the only one who prints lol! It's the only way I can keep my downloads organised. I do have over 900 of them (mods & cc).

Thanks for the workaround but (you knew there was a 'but' coming, didn't you?) is there a chance there might be an easier way in the future? Pretty please? Thanks heaps. :)

piqued
15th Sep 2013, 6:48 PM
This is awful! My computer can't load most of the page and it's not at all easy to use. Can I have my old theme back please! :D :D I knew where everything was and it didn't take forever to load usually.

Gayla

Hi All,

TL;DR: Themes + code reverted. New style will go live eventually. Nothing to see here, carry on.

So the news yesterday was the introduction of a new theme here on the site. This garnered a LOT of feedback from users, with some nice breakdowns, some good constructive posts, and a whole bunch of polarised opinions thrown in for good measure.

So what went wrong? Well, firstly, and this is a valid point - not enough end-user feedback was gotten during the construction process. Secondly, the colour schemes chosen weren't "good enough" for a lot of people. Thirdly, the layout of the download browse pages and the member profiles came in for a lot of flak. Lastly, there seemed to be some client and server side performance issues. All of these I will be addressing. But the main point is that I've reverted the entire site *and* the codebase back to the old version. It's just not possible to run both at the same time so this was the only option.

What went right? Well, I believe that HTML5 and CSS3 *are* here to stay, same with the larger thumbnails and responsive design. A lot of you *did* like the new styles, but enough of you where unhappy that I've rolled the design and code back.

So, whats next? Well, for one, I'm going to be providing an alternative site at http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/?styleid=40 - this will be constantly updated with the latest bleeding edge code the same as we have on the staff only server.

Next, and I want to stress this - the old themes *will* be going away eventually. Once Bootstrap has been more thoroughly tested and tweaked then I'll announce a changeover date and get more feedback at that time.

Lastly, I realise that this was a shock to a lot of you and that it probably wasn't the correct way to do this. I'd like to apologise for the hard cut, and rest assured that next time it'll be a bit more gradual. I'd also like to thank a lot of you for being level headed and providing bug reports and constructive criticism. I've archived the thread for now, but I'll be reaching out to specific people with more questions and feedback. To those of you who played with alternate themes, I hope you can understand the ease and power of the new layout in how quickly and easily it is to style.

So the priorities for now are to tweak, adjust and generally find both a set of colour schemes *and* a layout that satisfies the majority of people (I realise that not everybody will like any new changes), but also incorporate some of the old layout features like more "row" based downloads. I'll also be adjusting some of the client side javascript so that it runs smoother on lower power computers.

Thanks for listening. Please do try and keep comments constructive.

Delphy

ETA: I've setup a Bootstrap feedback forum here: http://bootstrap.modthesims.info/forumdisplay.php?f=671 You can give specific feedback there. Theres also an input thread to do with postbits.

Menaceman44
16th Sep 2013, 10:36 PM
piqued, you may want to check out this thread> http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=511141

piqued
18th Sep 2013, 12:07 PM
piqued, you may want to check out this thread> http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=511141
Thank You!

Gayla(piqued)

barbarat
28th Sep 2013, 2:55 PM
I've been using bootstrap for months now and no way would I go back to the old layout. The new version is awesome. Took a bit to get used to where things were .... as with anything new!! The appearance is very pleasing and navigation a breeze. Great job Delphy. Thank you.

wtfever2
29th Sep 2013, 5:25 AM
I'm not too keen on the new design, but I'll get used to it. I've yet to see a decent backend web developer make a great looking website and vice versa in regards to decent web designers, so it's not a big deal to me provided MTS' backend stays solid.

In terms of useability, why does it take numerous clicks to filter downloads? Javascript should improve site navigation, here it hinders it and seems more cosmetic than useful. For the 'classic' version, I used adblock to disable the jquery and css to get rid of the buttons (which have no logical function) and to view the entire web form and make my filter selections in a single click. Since it looks like I'll need to do this again with the new CSS, I just thought I'd let you know that it's an annoyance.

Also, while you're updating MTS, would you take a bit of time and make a more intelligent downloads search query? Your query requires an exact phrase so searches for 'window' will only pull files that have the word 'window' in them and no files that have the word 'windows'. This requires multiple database queries for a single item. I'm a bit surprised you don't have wildcard searches, but if it is because of the database load due to heavy traffic, then I could understand. If it's simply because you haven't thought about it, or you're concerned about results relevancy, then I'd suggest comparing your query results to another heavy traffic sims site like TSR (which has better filtering as well).

I hope this feedback is useful for you. Thanks for your hard work.

Tashiketh
29th Sep 2013, 8:54 AM
barbarat: Thanks for the kind words - thats exactly what I had hoped for with Bootstrap. :)

wtfever2: You are probably in one of the extreme minority with regards to turning off Javascript and CSS (mostly because then the entire site ceases to function well). When you do that on the download browser page, you end up with a LOT of filter options (since, well, there are a lot of things to filter on). Having these shown on all pages is something I've experimented with in the past but the main take away is that it simply takes up too much room on the page - this is why they are "hidden". But the tabbed way of browsing the filter hasn't actually changed from the old theme to this one, so it's still the same way it was. I guess you just don't like how it was before either :)

As you are no doubt aware, natural language matching is, well, a pain in the ass. It works fine adding a wildcard on words like "window" to "windows", but doesn't really work for words that are contained inside another word. The search mechanism I'm using currently is simply a FULLTEXT search on the title field, so it's a bit finicky.

I actually don't have any stats currently on how often searches are triggered from within the download browser, so I'm working under the assumption that searching isn't used as much as simply browsing by category (ie drilling down to Lots & Housing then Residential). In any case the simple display of the filter boxes is something that ends up being very awkward on the page unless you have a sidebar for it to sit in. I'll keep your comments in mind when I next come to review the download browser pages.

wtfever2
4th Oct 2013, 10:30 AM
wtfever2: You are probably in one of the extreme minority with regards to turning off Javascript and CSS (mostly because then the entire site ceases to function well). When you do that on the download browser page, you end up with a LOT of filter options (since, well, there are a lot of things to filter on). Having these shown on all pages is something I've experimented with in the past but the main take away is that it simply takes up too much room on the page - this is why they are "hidden". But the tabbed way of browsing the filter hasn't actually changed from the old theme to this one, so it's still the same way it was. I guess you just don't like how it was before either :)

Ah, sorry I wasn't clear. I don't disable Javascript or CSS on this site, I only disabled it for the search filter. Here is what it looks like disabled (screen: http://x8k.org/mts/filters.jpg). The filters are hidden as you intended, but when they are needed it only takes one click to modify them and I can see what I clicked beforehand without having to click through all the buttons again. It does take up space, but only when a user wants to use them. Once the search is submitted, the filter hides the options again and they are preserved so the user need only click once to make edits as opposed to having to click multiple times or remember what filters were selected initially. Frankly speaking, I think you've done a great job with the overall javascript on this site, and I'm not just trying to pat you on the back. I really think you've done and you continue to do a stellar job with your site. I only mentioned filters as an annoyance because I had to disable the CSS and javascript again with the new design, and since the site design is being updated just thought I'd recommend perhaps another look at it (again, just for the sake of useability).

As you are no doubt aware, natural language matching is, well, a pain in the ass. It works fine adding a wildcard on words like "window" to "windows", but doesn't really work for words that are contained inside another word. The search mechanism I'm using currently is simply a FULLTEXT search on the title field, so it's a bit finicky.

And that's putting it nicely :lol: I can understand why you query using FULLTEXT, but (if it doesn't significantly slow your DB) would it be possible to add a wildcard IN BOOLEAN MODE to your statement for a fuzzy search? Or something like that? At the moment, searching for words like 'window' doesn't return anything related to 'windows'. In the best case scenario, there are skewed results (ex. http://x8k.org/mts/querybcs.jpg), but in the worst case there are no results (ex. http://x8k.org/mts/querywcs.jpg). While this won't change anything for 'strawberry' vs 'strawberries' it should output more relevant results for the downloads on this site.

Anyway, thanks for being open to feedback, and I'm sure all of the users here like myself understand that you're doing what you have to do to keep MTS running smoothly. Take care and much respect.

Tashiketh
6th Oct 2013, 11:19 AM
wtfever2: I've actually been redoing the filters based on your feedback (it was on my list anyway), and going back to a more longer list rather than tabbed. To be honest the general way that the filters work needs work in terms of being able to find content, so this is definately high on my list.

What I currently have looks something like this:

http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/51092_131006060935browse_filters.png

It needs work though :)

With regards to the FULLTEXT, I'm already using the IN BOOLEAN MODE since I found that a normal FULLTEXT didn't work right for the kind of searches we do. What the search actually does is search for both title *and* the keywords (download search, of course - the normal search works on post text).

match(thread.keywords, thread.title) against ('+\"".$tag."\"' in boolean mode)

Here, tag is the search term you fill in. For those 2 searches could you possible paste me the URL in the navbar? That should give me all I need to recreate it and see why they are coming up odd or blank.

ETA Okay I think I know whats going on. The tags contain stuff like "#black chair, #desk chair, #maxis recolor", and of course "desk" matches what you've actually typed in. So that explains the weird matches.

wtfever2
9th Oct 2013, 4:32 PM
What I currently have looks something like this:

http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/51092_131006060935browse_filters.png

It needs work though :)

Thanks for the update. It looks rather good so far, and I think it will yield desired results faster for us end users.

match(thread.keywords, thread.title) against ('+\"".$tag."\"' in boolean mode)

Here, tag is the search term you fill in. For those 2 searches could you possible paste me the URL in the navbar? That should give me all I need to recreate it and see why they are coming up odd or blank.

ETA Okay I think I know whats going on. The tags contain stuff like "#black chair, #desk chair, #maxis recolor", and of course "desk" matches what you've actually typed in. So that explains the weird matches.

The URLs are:
windchime (http://www.modthesims.info/browse.php?tag=windchime&go=Go&gs=1&f=38&gs=1) vs windchimes (http://www.modthesims.info/browse.php?tag=windchimes&go=Go&gs=1&f=38&gs=1) and desk (http://www.modthesims.info/browse.php?tag=desk&go=Go&gs=1&f=38&gs=1) vs desks (http://www.modthesims.info/browse.php?tag=desks&go=Go&gs=1&f=38&gs=1)

I think the following might work to incorporate the inclusion of regular -S plurals (not for -ES / -IES)
('+\"".$tag."\"*' in boolean mode)

If it works and doesn't significantly affect load times I would suggest that. I think enclosing the * within the double quotation marks will yield funky results, thus I believe the wildcard must be enclosed within the single quotation mark that encloses the search string. If you'd like me to test it out on my own DB, I can, but I won't be able to do so until a fortnight.

Anyway, thanks a bunch for taking the time to look at this. Trust me, it is much appreciated!

Sarah_Sims
13th Feb 2016, 6:31 PM
rose: I think you're about the only person I know of who prints stuff anymore... :) You can still access the print option it's just... sort of hidden. If you go to http://www.modthesims.info/printthread.php?t=XXXX where XXX is the number in the download URL, it should work

@Delphy: Back in September 2013 when the site's theme changed, you very kindly gave me the solution above to enable me to continue printing pages without getting a load of code at the top. I've been using this method since then with no problems but just recently it has stopped working. After I press Enter, the address reverts back to the same as the download page. In other words, this "http://www.modthesims.info/printthread.php?t=571738" becomes this "http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=571738".

I know I'm probably the only person in the world that still prints things out but would really appreciate it if this could possibily be fixed if/when you have the time. Or maybe an alternative way to do it now? Many thanks. :)

Tashiketh
13th Feb 2016, 7:38 PM
Hi Sarah,

Thats right because printthread is supposed to only be used for threads, not for downloads, so a few days ago I noticed a bot spamming the heck out of printthread URLs for downloads - thus, I changed it. Just out of curiosity why do you still need to print download pages? :)

Sarah_Sims
15th Feb 2016, 1:31 AM
Hi Sarah,

Thats right because printthread is supposed to only be used for threads, not for downloads, so a few days ago I noticed a bot spamming the heck out of printthread URLs for downloads - thus, I changed it. Just out of curiosity why do you still need to print download pages? :)

Oh I see. Thanks for explaining. :)
I like to print out the details of any mods I have installed in my game so they're easy to refer to whilst playing. I have over 300 mods so it's a bit difficult to remember what they all do. It also helps having a printout if/when my internet goes down, which it does quite frequently, unfortunately. I'm assuming from what you've said, that it's not possible to print decently anymore then? If so, that's a shame but I'll live. :)